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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 11 of 24

@Richva wrote:

That is a true statement. The point, however, is not that a high tax rate on the people who actually  have 80% of the wealth in this country would stimulate the economy.  It is that the idea we cannot tax these extremely wealthy people is preposterous. It seems pretty simple to me. If you have 80% of the wealth, you should pay 80% of the cost of running the country which made that wealth possible. 


The top 10% earners pay 70%, the bottom 45% of earners pay 0%. You might want to reconsider your tax plan.

 

You also seem to base the success of the successful on "the country which made that wealth possible" - do the others not live in the same country?

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 12 of 24

@PaintItBlack wrote:

This is hilarious. Sen. Warren cites historical facts about the long-ago time before the American middle class was mostly destroyed, noting that going back to that in some form or other might be a good idea, and you think there's something wrong with it.

 

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

 

How can increased corporate taxes be the answer to increased wages? In reality her "historical facts" are fantasy. She overlooks the major changes in the manufacturing sector that have occurred. Sure - long for the labor intensive assembly lines of the past, but they no longer exist and they did not disappear because of tax rates.


 

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 13 of 24

@jimc91 wrote:

Too FUNNY!

 

Elizabeth Warren, the Progressive, pointing to the past as a model instead of the future.

 

The dems sure have their work cut out for them.  Did they learn nothing from the 2016 election?

 

 


The Dems and all true  Americans learned that there were a group posing as good Americans who were in actually enablers for a Dictator. That Dictator is Trump who the enablers were a major factor in electing. As Putin told us on TV he wanted Trump elected and directed his aides to do everything they could to see that happen. They looked for a likely group and found them mostly in the Reb. Party (far right). Using lies and outright bribery along with other still hidden ways they did get him elected, and today we have Dictator Trump who has been turning the USA in to Germany  under Hitler. Who makes up this group of enablers. The experts tell us they are uneducated, mostly white (KKK Type), easy to lead, poor, can not think for themselves, etc. The are the most dangerous group of people in the USA today. Thinking people left the Reb. Party and just about all that is left of the party are the far right enablers. The new name of the Reb. Party is the Know Nothing Party. Yes that party of the past is now the Reb. Party.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 14 of 24

gordylf - the "benefit" for the average taxpayer from the increase in the Std Deduction was cut in half by Trump's elimination of the personal deduction. Still that's NO CHANGE in the process of calculating your AGI and you still go to a standard table for the taxes owed. The only thing Der Trumper did was redistributre $1.4TRILLION from the middle class to the Oligarchs running America's largest Corporations, and so far, they've used ALL the tax break for their bonuses or to buy back stock to increase their control and the value of their options.

 

What really killed the Middle Class was Reagan removed the "control" on how profits were distributed. Pre-Reagan, every dollar they gave themselves and Sr Management meant nearly 70cents in additional taxes, so it was mor3e profitable to give the mone yto the workers who would spend it, increasing demand and driving up the whole economy. Post Reagan, they just kept 70 cents of every additional dollar in the upper management and began cutting worker benefits and pension programs.

 

Here's the actual history of the National Debt.

$1.936 TRILLION added by Reagan 1981-1989 (incr 353%)

3.306 TRILLION added for service on the debt created by Reagan

4.765 TRILLION added by jrbush 2001-2009 (incr 79%)

2.810 TRILLION added for service on debt created by jrbush

 

$12.817 TRILLION Debt due to the Reagan and jrbush administrations' fiscal policies. The total debt is only $22.7Trillion, nearly 58% of which was created in TWO GOP Administrations.

 

In addition, the two wars jrbush lied us into cost $4 TRILLION in unnecessary expenses and his s**k-the Richest tax giveaways cost another $2 TRILLION in lost revenues.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 15 of 24

I was thinking of the standard deduction increased (doubled). I heard there were a few other simplifications, so I thought that was a step in the right direction.

They never did simplify it like they promised "on a postcard".

 

  • During Reagan's presidency, the U.S. moved from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation. Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.
    +++++++++++
  • Under Reagan, and a largely Republican Senate and Democratic House, budget deficits and national debt skyrocketed. During his presidency, the budget deficit ranged anywhere from $101 to $236 billion. Compare this with President Jimmy Carter, whose deficits ranged between $40-$74 billion.
  • On Reagan's watch, the national debt more than doubled, from about $1 trillion to a little over $2 trillion, in real terms. Federal spending grew by 22% in real terms, with military spending accounting for most of the increase.
  • Does the GOP need another leader who increases federal spending, runs huge deficits, adds trillions to the national debt?
  • Didn't the GOP go this route with George W. Bush? Bush, like Reagan, was a champion of tax cuts and limited government, yet he increased federal spending, ran huge deficits, added trillions to the national debt.

How about a leader who can defend America without growing the size of government and exploding the size of the military budget?

 

tax and spend.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 16 of 24

@gordyfl wrote:   

One thing that jumps out at me is that the current top tax rate is now the same it was just before the Great Depression.

tax rates 1918-2017.jpg

 

Both the low top-marginal tax-rate (above) & the high share-of income going to the 1% (below) immediately preceeded the Great Depression.  We've looked at & discussed these #s many times here & their obvious cause/effect relationship.  What can we learn from history?  Gilded Ages with their extreme Inequality are not sustainable.  But they are destructive of true democracy.

 

Screenshot (14).png

 

 

 

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 17 of 24

@gordyfl - and everyone who THINKS the middle has gotten tax cuts since 1950. Neither LBJ, nor Reagan nor Der Trumper "simplified" taxes for the average American.

 

When the top rate was above 90% from 1942 to 1964, figuring your taxes was a snap - you figured your AGI and looked up your tax liability in a table that could be understood by any 4th grader.

 

After each and every cut, you figured your AGI and looked up your tax liability in a table that could be understood by any 4th grader.

 

All they did was transfer the cost of running the country from those who could easily afford it without surrendering a single luxuary onto the backs of working men and women who DID give up things to pay their new tax burden.

 

It wasn't only the loss of deductions that actually INCREASED the effective rate (what you actually paid), it was the loss of REVENUE SHARING that provided funds that made public education the best in the World (now somthing like 34th) and FREE - I could even get most of my school supplies for a pitance from the school store and NOBODY paid extra to participate in sports, band or any of the school clubs. College at a major State University could be paid for with a summer job, and NOBODY graduated with "student debt", let alone dept the size of a home mortgage that keeps the current crop of grads from leaving their parents basement. Our infrastructure was the envy of the World, not some 3d World disaster waiting to collapse like we now have. Every year the rich got richer, but the middle got rich faster and the income inequality SHRANK every year. We were working FEWER hours, every family could get by with a single income, and employer paid retirements provided a very comfortable "golden years" for our seniors.

 

As for the "trade deficits", they have worked in our FAVOR for the last 50 years. When we buy more stuff than we sell to another country, we wind up with their stuff - Plasma TVs, Stereos, hot cars, etc etc and THEY wind up with pictures of dead presidents. While we enjoy all their stuff, they take those pictures of dead presidents and send them back to America to buy Treasury Notes that finance our deficit spending which gives us MORE stuff. Eventually they will send back the Treasuries and we will send them MORE PICTURES OF DEAD PRESIDENTS!

 

No trade deficit ever cost any American their job. Trade Wars, on the other hand, destroyed the World economy in 1929 and if Der Trumper is not stopped, they will destroy it again in 2019.

 

Does anybody really believe the Republican crapola about how those tax cuts made things BETTER for the bottom 99% of Americans?

Do you really think things would NOT get better for the 99% if we REPEAL all those taxscams that redistributed our raises to the top 1%?

Do you also put your dentures under your pillow at night hoping the Tooth Fairy will leave you the winning lotto numbers?

 

Republicans - how do you justify giving up your kids' future to continue support for really bad ideas from LBJ, Reagan and Der Trumper? What do you THINK America gained from this immense wealth redistribution?

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 18 of 24

@gordyfl wrote:

I read the article and watched the video. I'm just wondering what part of what she said we are supposed to disagee with?

 

I do want to see a simpler tax structure. Trump's Tax Bill did accomplish some of that. 

 

What worries me, on a national level is national debt and trade deficits. Trump is at least moving to do something about the trade deficits with other countries. Will his strategy work? Many economists say trade wars don't work. I don't know, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

What can we learn from previous tax rates?

 

One thing that jumps out at me is that the current top tax rate is now the same it was just before the Great Depression.

tax rates 1918-2017.jpg

 

 

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Income-Tax-Rates.aspx

 

 

 


Not just the tax rates, but the Republican drive to deregulate Wall Street and the Banksters is a match for their policies in 1929. In addition, take a look at what the tax cuts for the Uberrich did to worker's wages since 1979. If you run the numbers starting back in 1964, the theft is even more spectaculiar. Now the money that SHOULD have gone to workers did not disappear. It was redistributed into the pockets of the ones who divided the profits in the most massive and pervasive redistribution of wealth in human history.

Figure 1

The U.S. middle class had $17,867 less income in 2007 because of the growth of inequality since 1979Household income of the broad middle class, actual and projected assuming no growth in inequality, 1979–2011

 

 

 
The U.S. middle class had $17,867 less income in 2007 because of the growth of inequality since 1979: Household income of the broad middle class, actual and projected assuming no growth in inequality, 1979–2011
 
Reagan not only increased middle class Federal Income Tax payments, he robbed working men and women of nearly $18,000 a year in their paychecks and returned our country to income inequality of the colonial period and today only found in 3d World Kleptocracies.
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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 19 of 24

I read the article and watched the video. I'm just wondering what part of what she said we are supposed to disagee with?

 

I do want to see a simpler tax structure. Trump's Tax Bill did accomplish some of that. 

 

What worries me, on a national level is national debt and trade deficits. Trump is at least moving to do something about the trade deficits with other countries. Will his strategy work? Many economists say trade wars don't work. I don't know, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

What can we learn from previous tax rates?

 

One thing that jumps out at me is that the current top tax rate is now the same it was just before the Great Depression.

tax rates 1918-2017.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 20 of 24

@Richva wrote:

That is a true statement. The point, however, is not that a high tax rate on the people who actually  have 80% of the wealth in this country would stimulate the economy.  It is that the idea we cannot tax these extremely wealthy people is preposterous. It seems pretty simple to me. If you have 80% of the wealth, you should pay 80% of the cost of running the country which made that wealth possible. 


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

 

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