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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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@jimc91 wrote:

@john258 it's 2018 and most websites today use cookies...  There is a very easy way to reject them but it requires a computer user to educate themselves to at least an elementary level.  

 

Food for thought...

 

 

 

 


Well you did not have enough food as your thoughts are sadly lacking on web sites. There are web sites who's only purpose is to collect names, and sell them. I get a warning on this type of web site is detected and got one so did not open it. I can understand why the Dictator Trump enablers do not know that as they are only allowed to access their leaders web site for info, and their assigned web sites they post to.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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@john258 it's 2018 and most websites today use cookies...  There is a very easy way to reject them but it requires a computer user to educate themselves to at least an elementary level.  

 

Food for thought...

 

 

 

 

VIMTSTL
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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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@gordyfl wrote:

There is nothing new in that. Why is it a problem now and not during the past Administration? 

 

The years from the end of World War II into the 1970s were ones of substantial economic growth and broadly shared prosperity.
Incomes grew rapidly and at roughly the same rate up and down the income ladder, between the late 1940s and early 1970s.
The income gap between those high up the income ladder and those on the middle and lower rungs — while substantial — did not change much during this period.


Beginning in the 1970s, economic growth slowed and the income gap widened.


Income growth for households in the middle and lower parts of the distribution slowed sharply, while incomes at the top continued to grow strongly.
The concentration of income at the very top of the distribution rose to levels last seen more than 80 years ago (during the “Roaring Twenties”).


Wealth — the value of a household’s property and financial assets, minus the value of its debts — is much more highly concentrated than income. The best survey data show that the share of wealth held by the top 1 percent rose from just under 30 percent in 1989 to nearly 49 percent in 2016, while the share held by the bottom 90 percent fell from just over 33 percent to less than 23 percent over the same period.


Put another way, the top 1 percent now have more than twice as large a share of the nation’s wealth as the bottom 90 percent.

 

https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide-to-statistics-on-historical-trends-in-i...

 

But, as jobs were gradually disappearing overseas, prices of goods coming into this country (from places like China) were cheap. Those working weren't feeling any pain.

Those who lost their jobs due to their companies moving overseas, in most cases settled for a lower paying job. They might have had a pension or severance pay to help them out and ease the pain, and prices of goods were still cheap.

However, more and more jobs kept moving overseas.


Then came the 2008 Wall Street financial crisis. Home owners saw their wealth disappear as they either lost their homes or saw their home values sink.


Fast forward to 2016. Jobs continue to go overseas. Wages stagnant. Banks bailed out. Wall Streeters doing fine. It's become clear to most Americans - The rich are getting richer and I'm being left behind. Along comes Trump.


Michael Moore predicted Trump would win the election. Here's what he said:


Michael Moore: Friends, I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I gave it to you straight last summer when I told you that Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee for president. And now I have even more awful, depressing news for you: Donald J. Trump is going to win in November. This wretched, ignorant, dangerous part-time clown and full time sociopath is going to be our next president. President Trump. Go ahead and say the words, ‘cause you’ll be saying them for the next four years: “PRESIDENT TRUMP.”
Never in my life have I wanted to be proven wrong more than I do right now.
I can see what you’re doing right now. You’re shaking your head wildly – “No, Mike, this won’t happen!”
Unfortunately, you are living in a bubble that comes with an adjoining echo chamber where you and your friends are convinced the American people are not going to elect an idiot for president. You alternate between being appalled at him and laughing at him because of his latest crazy comment.
And then you listen to Hillary and you behold our very first female president, someone the world respects, someone who is whip-smart and cares about kids, who will continue the Obama legacy because that is what the American people clearly want! Yes! Four more years of this!
You need to exit that bubble right now. You need to stop living in denial and face the truth which you know deep down is very, very real.
Trying to soothe yourself with the facts – “77% of the electorate are women, people of color, young adults under 35 and Trump can't win a majority of any of them!” – or logic – “people aren’t going to vote for a buffoon or against their own best interests!” – is your brain’s way of trying to protect you from trauma. Like when you hear a loud noise on the street and you think, “oh, a tire just blew out,” or, “wow, who’s playing with firecrackers?” because you don’t want to think you just heard someone being shot with a gun.
Coming back to my hotel a man stopped me. “Mike,” he said, “we have to vote for Trump. We HAVE to shake things up.” That was it. That was enough for him. To “shake things up.” President Trump would indeed do just that, and a good chunk of the electorate would like to sit in the bleachers and watch that reality show.


I hope you know that you are putting up a web site that once a person reads the article their computer has been comprised and they will start to receive all kinds of unwanted Spam mail. When you use such a support article you should inform people so they can judge wheather to open it or not.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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There is nothing new in that. Why is it a problem now and not during the past Administration? 

 

The years from the end of World War II into the 1970s were ones of substantial economic growth and broadly shared prosperity.
Incomes grew rapidly and at roughly the same rate up and down the income ladder, between the late 1940s and early 1970s.
The income gap between those high up the income ladder and those on the middle and lower rungs — while substantial — did not change much during this period.


Beginning in the 1970s, economic growth slowed and the income gap widened.


Income growth for households in the middle and lower parts of the distribution slowed sharply, while incomes at the top continued to grow strongly.
The concentration of income at the very top of the distribution rose to levels last seen more than 80 years ago (during the “Roaring Twenties”).


Wealth — the value of a household’s property and financial assets, minus the value of its debts — is much more highly concentrated than income. The best survey data show that the share of wealth held by the top 1 percent rose from just under 30 percent in 1989 to nearly 49 percent in 2016, while the share held by the bottom 90 percent fell from just over 33 percent to less than 23 percent over the same period.


Put another way, the top 1 percent now have more than twice as large a share of the nation’s wealth as the bottom 90 percent.

 

But, as jobs were gradually disappearing overseas, prices of goods coming into this country (from places like China) were cheap. Those working weren't feeling any pain.

Those who lost their jobs due to their companies moving overseas, in most cases settled for a lower paying job. They might have had a pension or severance pay to help them out and ease the pain, and prices of goods were still cheap.

However, more and more jobs kept moving overseas.


Then came the 2008 Wall Street financial crisis. Home owners saw their wealth disappear as they either lost their homes or saw their home values sink.


Fast forward to 2016. Jobs continue to go overseas. Wages stagnant. Banks bailed out. Wall Streeters doing fine. It's become clear to most Americans - The rich are getting richer and I'm being left behind. Along comes Trump.


Michael Moore predicted Trump would win the election. Here's what he said:


Michael Moore: Friends, I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I gave it to you straight last summer when I told you that Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee for president. And now I have even more awful, depressing news for you: Donald J. Trump is going to win in November. This wretched, ignorant, dangerous part-time clown and full time sociopath is going to be our next president. President Trump. Go ahead and say the words, ‘cause you’ll be saying them for the next four years: “PRESIDENT TRUMP.”
Never in my life have I wanted to be proven wrong more than I do right now.
I can see what you’re doing right now. You’re shaking your head wildly – “No, Mike, this won’t happen!”
Unfortunately, you are living in a bubble that comes with an adjoining echo chamber where you and your friends are convinced the American people are not going to elect an idiot for president. You alternate between being appalled at him and laughing at him because of his latest crazy comment.
And then you listen to Hillary and you behold our very first female president, someone the world respects, someone who is whip-smart and cares about kids, who will continue the Obama legacy because that is what the American people clearly want! Yes! Four more years of this!
You need to exit that bubble right now. You need to stop living in denial and face the truth which you know deep down is very, very real.
Trying to soothe yourself with the facts – “77% of the electorate are women, people of color, young adults under 35 and Trump can't win a majority of any of them!” – or logic – “people aren’t going to vote for a buffoon or against their own best interests!” – is your brain’s way of trying to protect you from trauma. Like when you hear a loud noise on the street and you think, “oh, a tire just blew out,” or, “wow, who’s playing with firecrackers?” because you don’t want to think you just heard someone being shot with a gun.
Coming back to my hotel a man stopped me. “Mike,” he said, “we have to vote for Trump. We HAVE to shake things up.” That was it. That was enough for him. To “shake things up.” President Trump would indeed do just that, and a good chunk of the electorate would like to sit in the bleachers and watch that reality show.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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@gordyfl wrote:

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer.

 

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” - Warren Buffett

 

"Greed is good" -Gordon Gekko

 

Big corporations, the rich and powerful hire lobbyists who give the politicians a !@$% load of money.

 

The politicians pass Bills, such as tax cuts that tilt favorably to the Big donors, which in turn fattens their bank accounts. This cycle gets repeated. 

 

The common folk do not hire lobbyists, but look to politicians like Elizabeth Warren to "balance the scale".

 

 

The Government Listens To Lobbyists And The Wealthy, Not You And Me.


When organized interest groups or economic elites want a particular policy passed, there’s a strongly likelihood their wishes will come true. But when average citizens support something, they have next to no influence.

 

campaign money.png

 

 

 There is nothing new in that. Why is it a problem now and not during the past Administration? 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 7 of 24

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer.

 

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” - Warren Buffett

 

"Greed is good" -Gordon Gekko

 

Big corporations, the rich and powerful hire lobbyists who give the politicians a !@$% load of money.

 

The politicians pass Bills, such as tax cuts that tilt favorably to the Big donors, which in turn fattens their bank accounts. This cycle gets repeated. 

 

The common folk do not hire lobbyists, but look to politicians like Elizabeth Warren to "balance the scale".

 

 

The Government Listens To Lobbyists And The Wealthy, Not You And Me.


When organized interest groups or economic elites want a particular policy passed, there’s a strongly likelihood their wishes will come true. But when average citizens support something, they have next to no influence.

 

campaign money.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 8 of 24

@john258 wrote:


The Dems and all true  Americans learned that there were a group posing as good Americans who were in actually enablers for a Dictator. That Dictator is Trump who the enablers were a major factor in electing. As Putin told us on TV he wanted Trump elected and directed his aides to do everything they could to see that happen. They looked for a likely group and found them mostly in the Reb. Party (far right). Using lies and outright bribery along with other still hidden ways they did get him elected, and today we have Dictator Trump who has been turning the USA in to Germany  under Hitler. Who makes up this group of enablers. The experts tell us they are uneducated, mostly white (KKK Type), easy to lead, poor, can not think for themselves, etc. The are the most dangerous group of people in the USA today. Thinking people left the Reb. Party and just about all that is left of the party are the far right enablers. The new name of the Reb. Party is the Know Nothing Party. Yes that party of the past is now the Reb. Party.


Income disparity is dated back to 1979. And yet somehow at least one poster wants to blame it on Kluxers, enablers, some supposed "Dictator", Putin, and Hitler.

 

Once again the effects of blind hatred are obvious.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 9 of 24

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@gordyfl- and everyone who THINKS the middle has gotten tax cuts since 1950. Neither LBJ, nor Reagan nor Der Trumper "simplified" taxes for the average American.

 

When the top rate was above 90% from 1942 to 1964, figuring your taxes was a snap - you figured your AGI and looked up your tax liability in a table that could be understood by any 4th grader.

 

After each and every cut, you figured your AGI and looked up your tax liability in a table that could be understood by any 4th grader.

 

All they did was transfer the cost of running the country from those who could easily afford it without surrendering a single luxuary onto the backs of working men and women who DID give up things to pay their new tax burden.

 

It wasn't only the loss of deductions that actually INCREASED the effective rate (what you actually paid), it was the loss of REVENUE SHARING that provided funds that made public education the best in the World (now somthing like 34th) and FREE - I could even get most of my school supplies for a pitance from the school store and NOBODY paid extra to participate in sports, band or any of the school clubs. College at a major State University could be paid for with a summer job, and NOBODY graduated with "student debt", let alone dept the size of a home mortgage that keeps the current crop of grads from leaving their parents basement. Our infrastructure was the envy of the World, not some 3d World disaster waiting to collapse like we now have. Every year the rich got richer, but the middle got rich faster and the income inequality SHRANK every year. We were working FEWER hours, every family could get by with a single income, and employer paid retirements provided a very comfortable "golden years" for our seniors.

 

As for the "trade deficits", they have worked in our FAVOR for the last 50 years. When we buy more stuff than we sell to another country, we wind up with their stuff - Plasma TVs, Stereos, hot cars, etc etc and THEY wind up with pictures of dead presidents. While we enjoy all their stuff, they take those pictures of dead presidents and send them back to America to buy Treasury Notes that finance our deficit spending which gives us MORE stuff. Eventually they will send back the Treasuries and we will send them MORE PICTURES OF DEAD PRESIDENTS!

 

No trade deficit ever cost any American their job. Trade Wars, on the other hand, destroyed the World economy in 1929 and if Der Trumper is not stopped, they will destroy it again in 2019.

 

Does anybody really believe the Republican crapola about how those tax cuts made things BETTER for the bottom 99% of Americans?

Do you really think things would NOT get better for the 99% if we REPEAL all those taxscams that redistributed our raises to the top 1%?

Do you also put your dentures under your pillow at night hoping the Tooth Fairy will leave you the winning lotto numbers?

 

Republicans - how do you justify giving up your kids' future to continue support for really bad ideas from LBJ, Reagan and Der Trumper? What do you THINK America gained from this immense wealth redistribution?


In the early '90s I attended a townhall meeting that some pols set up on the topic of tax complexities. They were pushing "Fair Tax" or "Flat Tax". They showed a small document for either and an enormous stack that represented existing tax law.

 

Nothing has changed - if anything the stack is higher. This is a reality totally independent of your obsession with tax cuts.

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Re: Warren: America Was "Very Prosperous" When The Top Tax Rate Was Well Above 50 Percent

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Message 10 of 24

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@gordyfl wrote:

I read the article and watched the video. I'm just wondering what part of what she said we are supposed to disagee with?

 

I do want to see a simpler tax structure. Trump's Tax Bill did accomplish some of that. 

 

What worries me, on a national level is national debt and trade deficits. Trump is at least moving to do something about the trade deficits with other countries. Will his strategy work? Many economists say trade wars don't work. I don't know, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

What can we learn from previous tax rates?

 

One thing that jumps out at me is that the current top tax rate is now the same it was just before the Great Depression.

tax rates 1918-2017.jpg

 

 

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Income-Tax-Rates.aspx

 

 

 


Not just the tax rates, but the Republican drive to deregulate Wall Street and the Banksters is a match for their policies in 1929. In addition, take a look at what the tax cuts for the Uberrich did to worker's wages since 1979. If you run the numbers starting back in 1964, the theft is even more spectaculiar. Now the money that SHOULD have gone to workers did not disappear. It was redistributed into the pockets of the ones who divided the profits in the most massive and pervasive redistribution of wealth in human history.

Figure 1

The U.S. middle class had $17,867 less income in 2007 because of the growth of inequality since 1979Household income of the broad middle class, actual and projected assuming no growth in inequality, 1979–2011

 

 

 
The U.S. middle class had $17,867 less income in 2007 because of the growth of inequality since 1979: Household income of the broad middle class, actual and projected assuming no growth in inequality, 1979–2011
 
Reagan not only increased middle class Federal Income Tax payments, he robbed working men and women of nearly $18,000 a year in their paychecks and returned our country to income inequality of the colonial period and today only found in 3d World Kleptocracies.

How did the dreaded Reagan tax cuts cause that loss in 2007? Sometimes logic contributes more than fancy words like "Kleptocracies" "Ubberrich", "Banksters" etc.

 

Also you might want to note that your chart dates the start of the growth in "inequity" back to 1979 - prior to the Reagan tax cuts. So, you can either blame it on Jimmy or you can accept the reality of major changes in manufacturing.

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