Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 11 of 38

Poor Venezuela.  It has become the whipping boy of conservatives who cannot tell the difference between horrible management and "socialist" policies. I put the word socialist in quotes because most of the things they claim are socialism are not. 

 

Still, it is telling that they never discuss Canada, Finland, Norway, The Netherlands..... All they would consider socialist and all who have more efficient systems for providing services to their citizens at less cost and more efficient outcomes. Health care, child day care, elder day care, universal retirement systems, etc.  

 

 

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 12 of 38

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@gordyfl wrote:

We were told about evil socialism with examples like "Look at France", "Look at those European countries", "Look at those Scandivavian countries".
We were warned against socialized medicine......"Just look at Cuba!"
Now it's "Look at Venezuela!"


Let's see what we can learn from Venezuela.


Venezuela has gone from being dependent on oil to being extremely dependent on oil.


Oil represented 77 percent of Venezuela's exports but by 2011 oil represented 96 percent of exports. That means only around 4 percent of the goods that Venezuela exports are non-oil products! The Venezuelan economy relies almost exclusively on the price of oil and the ability of the government to spend oil revenues.
(The country officially nationalized its oil industry on January 1976)


The Chavez government has crippled private businesses through nationalizations.


The government has nationalized numerous companies (no one seems to be able to count them all) involved in various sectors including aluminum, cement, gold, iron, steel, farming, transportation, electricity, food production, banking, paper and the media.


The Venezuelan government set price controls on 400 basic foods including white rice, cooking oil, coffee, sugar, powdered milk, cheese, and tomato sauce.


The Venezuelan government created a chain of state-owned grocery stores, selling staple foods at 39% below market value.


Chávez seized many supermarkets from their owners.

 

I'm not worried that the U.S. will become a Venezuela.

 


America's enemy is not Nationalization of industry, it's Hedge Funds who buy perfectly sound, stable companies, tear them into little pieces, sell off the carcass, appropriate the pension fund for their bonus money and leave hundreds of thousands of hard working Americans with NOTHING to show for 30 years of faithful service. Just another way Republicans have legislated the redistribution of wealth (pension funds, good jobs) FROM the Middle Class TO the very top of the 1%. If you want American families to be SAFE, forget about building walls against Mexicans - do something to stop the rape and pillage of the American work place and the workers.

 

How do you see your economic vision coming about - by government control, of the economy?


 

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 13 of 38

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

I have always considered the more advanced economies like Canada and Norway to be practicing Costco Capitalism.  Venezuela was practicing Sears Capitalism. 


Excellent example. SEARS was raped and pillaged by a single Vulture Capitalist who sold all their buildings to himself, then milked all the profits from Sears into his personal accounts via exhorbinant rents on buildings Sears had receintly owned. The one Republican-approved Capitalist pocketed over $1 BILLION while destroying the lives of 175,000 Sears employees - very like what happened when a half-dozen families in Venezuela used their control of food and fuel to transfer the wealth of an entire Nation into their own pockets.


There are differing styles under which companies are operated. Do it right and you succeed, do it wrong and you fail - the market place decides. However, put the government in charge and you end up with a situation like in Venezuela - and silliness posted like "One Republican-approved Capitalist.

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 14 of 38

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

The lesson from Venezuela is not to elect a corrupt dictator. Venezuela is not a socialist country but a dictatorship.

 

Too bad the right did not learn that before electing a wanna be dictator in this country.


Would you call their economic model "Free Market Capitalism" - or something else?


I would call it a corrupt dictatorship. Just like Trump wants in this country.


Instead of jumping immediately to the hate filled nonsense, think about the issue - this is about an economic system. 

 

So, again, would you call their economic model "Free Market Capitalism" - or something else.


I would call their economic model as a corrupt dictator using the government to enrich himself at the expense of the citizenry.


Either you have a free market operating mainly independent of the government or you have one controlled by the government. I believe they have the latter - are we in agreement?

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@MIseker wrote:
The Right loves to post these mostly true stories about Venezuela. The topic post here insinuates Cortez and Sanders want a government run like Venezuela. Prove it. Show us all who exactly wants the US to run like Venezuela. Another bogus topic. The topics statement is a lie, then accuse imagined " liberals" of committing the deed. This method doesnt fool anyone.

The right posts these fantasies because they seek to divert attention from the FACT they are driving us toward a government run just like Germany c1940.


Overlooking the usual Germany nonsensical obsession, there is a valid point contained in the interchange above.

 

The concern is not that any pol want to turn us into Venezuela but rather that their vision of the relationship between the government and the governed could establish circumstances where a "strongman" type leader could emerge. 

 

Our Constitution intentionally weakened the power of the government over the people for a good reason.

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Message 16 of 38

@gordyfl wrote:

We were told about evil socialism with examples like "Look at France", "Look at those European countries", "Look at those Scandivavian countries".
We were warned against socialized medicine......"Just look at Cuba!"
Now it's "Look at Venezuela!"


Let's see what we can learn from Venezuela.


Venezuela has gone from being dependent on oil to being extremely dependent on oil.


Oil represented 77 percent of Venezuela's exports but by 2011 oil represented 96 percent of exports. That means only around 4 percent of the goods that Venezuela exports are non-oil products! The Venezuelan economy relies almost exclusively on the price of oil and the ability of the government to spend oil revenues.
(The country officially nationalized its oil industry on January 1976)


The Chavez government has crippled private businesses through nationalizations.


The government has nationalized numerous companies (no one seems to be able to count them all) involved in various sectors including aluminum, cement, gold, iron, steel, farming, transportation, electricity, food production, banking, paper and the media.


The Venezuelan government set price controls on 400 basic foods including white rice, cooking oil, coffee, sugar, powdered milk, cheese, and tomato sauce.


The Venezuelan government created a chain of state-owned grocery stores, selling staple foods at 39% below market value.


Chávez seized many supermarkets from their owners.

 

I'm not worried that the U.S. will become a Venezuela.

 


America's enemy is not Nationalization of industry, it's Hedge Funds who buy perfectly sound, stable companies, tear them into little pieces, sell off the carcass, appropriate the pension fund for their bonus money and leave hundreds of thousands of hard working Americans with NOTHING to show for 30 years of faithful service. Just another way Republicans have legislated the redistribution of wealth (pension funds, good jobs) FROM the Middle Class TO the very top of the 1%. If you want American families to be SAFE, forget about building walls against Mexicans - do something to stop the rape and pillage of the American work place and the workers.

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 17 of 38

@Richva wrote:

I have always considered the more advanced economies like Canada and Norway to be practicing Costco Capitalism.  Venezuela was practicing Sears Capitalism. 


Excellent example. SEARS was raped and pillaged by a single Vulture Capitalist who sold all their buildings to himself, then milked all the profits from Sears into his personal accounts via exhorbinant rents on buildings Sears had receintly owned. The one Republican-approved Capitalist pocketed over $1 BILLION while destroying the lives of 175,000 Sears employees - very like what happened when a half-dozen families in Venezuela used their control of food and fuel to transfer the wealth of an entire Nation into their own pockets.

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 18 of 38

@jimc91 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

The lesson from Venezuela is not to elect a corrupt dictator. Venezuela is not a socialist country but a dictatorship.

 

Too bad the right did not learn that before electing a wanna be dictator in this country.


Would you call their economic model "Free Market Capitalism" - or something else?


I would call it a corrupt dictatorship. Just like Trump wants in this country.


And you would base your claim on what?

 

President Trump has been and is completely transparent with the American people and has allowed more media access than any other President in my lifetime.

 

Looking back at history at dictators, one of the first things they do is get rid of their citizens' guns and assure only the government has legal access to them.

 

President Trump is very pro Second Amendment, your above comment is baseless.

 

 

 


I never claimed that Trump was very smart.

 

I don’t consider 1000s of lying tweets being completely transparent. 

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 19 of 38

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

The lesson from Venezuela is not to elect a corrupt dictator. Venezuela is not a socialist country but a dictatorship.

 

Too bad the right did not learn that before electing a wanna be dictator in this country.


Would you call their economic model "Free Market Capitalism" - or something else?


I would call it a corrupt dictatorship. Just like Trump wants in this country.


Instead of jumping immediately to the hate filled nonsense, think about the issue - this is about an economic system. 

 

So, again, would you call their economic model "Free Market Capitalism" - or something else.


I would call their economic model as a corrupt dictator using the government to enrich himself at the expense of the citizenry.

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Re: Venezuela’s Lessons for American Socialists

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Message 20 of 38

@jimc91 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

The lesson from Venezuela is not to elect a corrupt dictator. Venezuela is not a socialist country but a dictatorship.

 

Too bad the right did not learn that before electing a wanna be dictator in this country.


Would you call their economic model "Free Market Capitalism" - or something else?


I would call it a corrupt dictatorship. Just like Trump wants in this country.


And you would base your claim on what?

 

President Trump has been and is completely transparent with the American people and has allowed more media access than any other President in my lifetime.

 

Looking back at history at dictators, one of the first things they do is get rid of their citizens' guns and assure only the government has legal access to them.

 

President Trump is very pro Second Amendment, your above comment is baseless.

 

 

 Well lets start with that Trump is a liar. He has never told the truth to anyone. Just last night our local TV station ran a segment telling all he is a liar on the border. They showed his comments on the border and what their investigation showed a month or so ago. Trump lied on everything.

No the first thing a person trying to become a Dictator does is lie. Trump lies. The second thing is take one man control of all parts of govt. Trump has taken the JD, Military, Courts, HS, and more. The third thing is take away peoples rights. Latest we see Trump says he will build the wall with military and avoid Congress. One of the last things a Dictator does is take  guns away as he needs some of his enablers to have them as he takes power. Look at Hitler and how he handled that.

Enablers are always the last to know how a Dictator works. Look at what the experts tell us about about the traits of the enablers.


 

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