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Re: Update: Electoral College.

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@umbarch64 wrote:

What the electoral college is, where the enabling legislation resides, and how any individual's vote counts...or not...toward the end result is readily available. The words in the documents mean exactly what they say.  Motive is irrelevant...result is not.

 

Seems SCOTUS would disagree. They refused to consider either the motive or the result of Gerrymandering in Wisconsin to be relevant, the vote was 9-0.

 

If you want the Gerrymander to stop giving majority control to a minority of voters, VOTE OUT THE NRAGOP IN NOVEMBER. Last chance before the next census, and if the GOPers still rule the State Houses, it's all over but the shouting at the State level.

 


 

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Re: Update: Electoral College.

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Seems we have a solution to minority rule, but the National Interstate Popular Vote Compact needs more visibility and support. Looks like there's already 176 electoral votes on board, so if we can add Florida(27) Pennsylvania(21) Ohio(20) Michigan(17) and Wisconsin(10) we get 271 and no more electoral college deciding the election of POTUS.

 

Problem is Republican Gerrymanders have given them minority control of most of those State Legislatures, and with a Fascist majority on SCOTUS it may be too late to save democracy without a HUGE Progressive turnout next November, and two honest Republicans willing to block the seating of the 6th Fascist on SCOTUS.

 

Looks like the good people who sat out the two elections may have managed to undo 200 years of democracy - in 2010 they gave GOPers the ability to Gerrymander minority rule thanks to the timing of the census and 2016 keeping a fascist majority on SCOTUS who will never overturn Gerrymandering because the Founding Fathers did not believe people could be that evil.

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Re: Update: Electoral College.

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IMO it's time to move away from the Electoral College.

 

Seriously ........ the USA isn't going back to the thirteen colonies, or the thirteen states of the Articles of Confederation.

 

The whole idea of the Senate being a house on " men of quality " and the House of Representatives the " house of the common man " is pretty much a joke. 

 

Reality is our Constitution was never intended to " work " with political parties as we have today, and the Founding Fathers were overly idealistic to think it would without parties forming.

 

They expressed apprehension about it, but then as now people figure out how to game the system.

 

Representative government, one adult citizen one vote, Congressional districts made by a non political method, complete public financing of elections, better regulation of non government agencies involved in politics. We should not limit free speech, but we should not make it tax exempt either, end politics in the guise of public interest.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

 

https://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2016/nov/17/electoral-college-vs-popular-vote-could-state...

 

Eliminating the Electoral College does not even require a constitutional amendment. An effort known as The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is an agreement among several U.S. states and the District of Columbia to award all their respective electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote. Once states totaling 270 electoral votes join the compact -- which only requires passing state laws -- then the next presidential election will be determined (by) the popular vote, not the Electoral College."

 

 

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status

 

Alabama

Arkansas - Passed House in 2007 and 2009

Arizona - Passed House in 2016

California - Enacted into law

Colorado - Passed Senate in 2006 and 2007 and House in 2009 (but not enacted) 

Connecticut - Enacted into law

District of Columbia - Enacted into law

Delaware - Passed House in 2009 and 2011

Florida

Georgia - Unanimously approved by House committee in 2016

Hawaii - Enacted into law

Iowa

Idaho

Illinois - Enacted into law

Indiana

Kansas

Kentucky

Louisiana

Massachusetts - Enacted into law

Maryland - Enacted into law

Maine - Passed Maine Senate in 2008

Michigan - Passed House in 2008

Minnesota

Missouri - Unanimously approved by House committee in 2016

Mississippi

Montana

North Carolina - Passed Senate in 2007

North Dakota

Nebraska

New Hampshire

New Jersey - Enacted into law

New Mexico - Passed House in 2009.  Passed Senate in 2017.

Nevada - Passed Assembly in 2009

New York - Enacted into law

Ohio

Oklahoma - Passed Senate in 2015

Oregon - Passed House in 2009, 2013, and 2015

Pennsylvania

Rhode Island - Enacted into law

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Utah

Virginia

Vermont - Enacted into law

Washington - Enacted into law

Wisconsin

West Virginia

Wyoming

 

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Update: Electoral College.

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What the electoral college is, where the enabling legislation resides, and how any individual's vote counts...or not...toward the end result is readily available. The words in the documents mean exactly what they say.  Motive is irrelevant...result is not.

 

That is not a democracy you see described.  Nor does any of the current applications lead to a democratic result.  That's the truth.

 

That is true also in regard to selection of Representatives.  THAT relies on defined districts within a state susceptible to manipulation for political purpose. Gerrymandered.  That practice started way, way back.  Two Senators per State....regardless of population.  Supposed to be a check on the 'tryranny of the majority'....but not democratic, by any standard.  

 

A true democracy would require each citizen to vote on each action taken by their government.  The government would be required to abide by the results of that vote. We do NOT have that.  It would be an unwieldy system that would NOT work effectively.  Perhaps someday........

 

The Constitution sets up a Republic.  Each voter is supposedly afforded equal rights and equal representation.  Honestly done that would be possible.  As practiced, it is not. 

 

The electoral college is one such. It falls victim to human cunning and bad faith that often results in the voter having his 'rights' stripped away.  His/her vote ends up meaning nothing.  That too is a truth.

 

 All this is easily referenced at the library or on line. Misrepresentations have been made that the electors are selected by majority vote...they are not.  They are sometimes bound to vote the results of the total votes cast in the State....sometimes not.  Not by Federal law in any case and POTUS is undeniably a Federal Office representative of all the people in all the states.

 

Significantly, from the information I have, 29 States exercise 'legal' control over electors. Where they do, the penalty for 'faithless electors' is not a deterrent.  At present 21 States do not. IF that information is incorrect, I'd appreciate a correction.  IF on the other hand, a claim is or has been made to the contrary, I'd appreciate a retraction.

 

Some posters here excuse the disconnect for one reason or another.  Apparently they happen to think advantage over your fellow human is preferable to fair resolution of differences via a truly democratic process, each faction willing to abide by the result.  I'd say that is so close to fully accurate, that it amounts to the truth.  IF they truly believe that, that 'belief' is dangerous and flies in the face of our National Values.  Well...the ones our founders stated anyway.  Neither they nor I can do much about abuse.  Free speech, don't you know?

 

Claims here in support of the Electoral College System are uniformly spurious.  They are either inaccurately made in the first place or deliberately misrepresented so as to lead the unwary to an ill-considered conclusion in one way or another.  Disingenuous in other words.  Could be they are 'mistaken' and don't know better.  Could be it's deliberate.  In that case, it's a lie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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