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Message 11 of 19


@gordyfl wrote:

I think it would be a lot simpler to provide all Americans with Medicare Part A and Part B. Then take it from there.


Problem is Part A takes around 40 years of pay-in-advance and Part B is just regular health insurnace with the Part A services "paid in advance". Unless you know how to get the 40 years worth of payments NOW for everyone, you need something else - like Universal Coverage - Single Payer financed from savings in paperwork and expanding the pool of insured persons to 100% of the citizenry.

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Message 12 of 19

I think it would be a lot simpler to provide all Americans with Medicare Part A and Part B. Then take it from there.

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Message 13 of 19

@john258- Universal coverage single payer "works in" all the existing systems, it just reroutes the paperwork. Your VA coverage (Tricare) would pay your bills wherever you went for care with the payment (and reimbursement from the Government) flowing thru the Single Payer.

 

Same with Medicaid.  Medicare works so well they could remain the "first stop" for bills just as they do today, with the exception your "additional coverage" from private insurance would have many fewer claims forms and share a common payment schedule.

 

The changes for the insurance industry would be:

No insurance company could offer LESS than the current PPACA Bronze plan and all would have to offer the silver and gold coverage as well.They can offer more if they want.

The companies would have to use a standardized claims form, but if you think about it, what ADDITIONAL information does Aetna need that BCBS doesn't need? We're talking about changing the APPEARANCE of the forms, not their content.

 

I think I showed how this would be "self-financing" by eliminating wasteful paperwork, and by capping insurance and provider profits at current levels (ROI, not actual dollar amounts) the cost cannot help but go DOWN in the future.

 

So no, you do NOT have to fix everything before you fix anything. Down that rabbithole lies madness and Republican versions of the "fix" which is to go back to what we had BEFORE Obamacare with NO controls on cost.

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Message 14 of 19

@Olderscout66 wrote:

How would we pay for Universal Coverage, Single Payer health insurance in the US?
From savings in the $3.3 Trillion we currently waste to get the 37th best health care outcomes.

First off, Universal Coverage means NOBODY RIDES FREE. That means we need to find the funds for 44 Million American Citizens who are not currently covered by health insurance, including the 4 million healthy young people who dropped Obamacare as soon as Trump eliminated the penalty for going uninsured.

Hospitals account for $1.7 Trillion of the total cost of health care, and numerous studies place their overhead costs above 25%, most recently 25.3%  That’s $430.1 Billion each year for OVERHEAD.(https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/.../us-healthcare-prices-reflect-huge-administr… )


 Doctors and Clinics account for $665 Billion, and their overhead is likely to be an even higher percent simply because they have a smaller “base” to spread the overhead agains, but still have to deal with the same mountian of different forms required by the Insurance Industry. So that’s at least ($665 x .253=) $168.2 Billion for overhead.

With single payer there will be ONE claims form and ONE set of approved charges for each geographic area, which will be the CURRENT AMOUNTS AGREED TO BY INSURERS AND PROVIDERS. There will be no "out of network" or "uninsured patient" fees because EVERYONE will be in the same "network" and everybody will be insured.

 

There is no way this will reduce overhead by LESS than 30% of current levesl, so the savings from this one act would be (430.1 x .3=) $129 Billion from Hospitals and ($168.2 x ..3=) $50.5 Billion from doctors and clinics, total $179.5 Billion

Insurance Companies collected $859.9 Billion in premiums so their overhead would be (17% according to their proponents)  $143.7Billion. Their savings will be at least 30% or  $43.9 Billion .

The new single payer agency will pay the providers $168.2 Billion less than they now receive and collect the same amounts from the insurance companies they currently provide PLUS the proration of that $43.9Billion, so there will be ($179.5 + $43.9=) $223.4 Billion to provide for the 44 million uninsured, or $5077 EACH, considerably more than the Obamacare Silver plan. Now, those 4 million GOPer induced freeloaders will not receive subsidities nor will any of the 44 M who can afford but chose not to buy insurance.

The insurance companies will RECEIVE that additional $223.4 Billion, less 2% for overhead at the Single Payer according to how the newly insured decide to purchase their insurance. The care providers will no longer have to cover the cost of the uninsured using the ER as their family doctor, the society will no longer need to pay the much greater costs of treating illness only when its gotten so bad the ER will see the patient, and only GOPers will suffer and the suffering will be entirely psychological and their own fault.

 

There might be some adjustments to get exact figures, but not much and we can do this TODAY, except for the obstructionist Republicans who see health care as another chain the Oligarchs can use to bind their workers to their underpaid jobs and will do everything in their power to keep that chain from being broken.

VOTE OUT THE NRAGOP IN NOVEMBER.

 

 


To quote Yogi Berra - It's deja vu all over again.

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Message 15 of 19

There is now 2 threads going on this subject, and all seem to dwell on the hospital, Dr part of it, but that is just one part. Right now every one in the USA can get Health Care. Last resort go to the ER. Yes we need a better health care system, and we need everyone covered. The govt. (State, Fed., local ) run a large part of the current system and that will not change. The needs of a new system are so complex, and different for areas of the USA you need to move in steps. Medicare was a step years ago. Medi care for all who can pay approach is a good start. Medicad for all those who can not pay is another step. Many details have to be worked out by experts which no one in here is.

The VA system has to be worked in. The VA system needs improvement. A lot like it, but if you are not near a VA facility it fails. Where I live over 200 miles to a VA hospital. The change to use local medical people has been a game changer. The Indian Health Service has to be worked in. All Native Americans have free medical services from it. I know how it works in my area. They have hospitals about 100 miles apart across the Navajo Reservation to service the people living there. They have to supply housing at all of their hospitals to staff. At one location they had to build a small town. Housing, Water and Sewer system, Gas Station, Stores. They have to run a small town. Yes that is part of the healthcare costs. Our local hospital runs an airforce of fixed wing, and chopper. Car accident at end of country is over 100 miles from the hospital. They use chopper. They send people to large city hospital when needed by fixed wing aircraft. In most cities the para medic service is called street peoples medical service. Yes that is part of the health system cost to. You have to work all of these different parts in to the master plan and include the costs. This is a complex subject so take some time and think about the entire system. Yes there are ways to pay for some of it differently than we do now. That is another post at another time. Learn about the entire system if you want to improve it. Talk is cheap, learning is not.

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Message 16 of 19

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@umbarch64 wrote:

@Olderscout66 All valid points.  All points that should be needless to make in a Nation dedicated to the principles and values of our Constitutution.  ".....Government of the People, by the People and for the People....", Lincoln said. 

 

You may want to consider leaving out the Single Payer qualification as that may be counterproductive to the following. 

 

What must happen is that enough People unequivocally say that ADEQUATE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL RESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES is mandatory for the People's elected officials to implement in the most efficient and economical way possible. 

It's the People's Country and it exists solely for their well being.  Just like the founding documents say.  IF they say it, that's the way it has to be.  Period.

 

NOW....we all know where it is we are going.  We've always been able to figure out how best to get there and this issue is no different than any other we've faced and dealt with successfully AS A PEOPLE once we had a common purpose.  "We Did It Before and We Can Do It Again".  See.....thing is....I'm not much on 'belief' as the end all be all, but I do believe we can do this.

 

It CAN'T be done if we fixate on small detail when it's the end result that actually counts. Quit the preoccupation with all the bs, agree on this and get down to doing the real business of the People....it's their Country.  Let Democracy speak on it's own for a change.

 

 


No "small" details - the Republicans are constantly lying about the huge ADDITIONAL cost for getting Universal single Payer, and that lie needs to be put to rest to prevent people from voting against their own interests AGAIN.

 

It's like the lies told about the effect of raising the cap on SS - how it won't raise enough revenue, but NOBODY has done the calculations when the cap is raised all at once, only when its phased in over a decade during which the SSTF goes belly up.

 

Same with Universal health care - all sorts of GOPer lies about how much we're now paying for overhead, how Government is automatically inefficient and how paying the bills will somehow "take over 1/6th of the Economy". People need the TRUTH, and hopefully they'll take a sceond to google the same figures I've used and see the money for Universal Health Care is ALREADY THERE, being wasted for OVERHEAD caused by absurd systems that can be eliminated in a heartbeat - there's only ONE set of forms and ONE payment schedule for Medicare, and son of a gun, it works like a charm.


A universal single payers system would work for everyone and eliminate and replace all tax based, tax paid for health care programs now in existence. It would replace all tax based state worker health care plans, paid for by the taxpayers, all federal worker health care plans paid for by the taxpayers, all military health care plans (both active and retired), paid for by the taxpayers, Medicare, Medicaid, both paid for by the taxpayers. It would elimnate subsidies to hospitals for treating the uninsured, paid for by the taxpayers. Yes, it would "work like a charm", but the GOP stands in the way.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Message 17 of 19


@umbarch64 wrote:

@Olderscout66 All valid points.  All points that should be needless to make in a Nation dedicated to the principles and values of our Constitutution.  ".....Government of the People, by the People and for the People....", Lincoln said. 

 

You may want to consider leaving out the Single Payer qualification as that may be counterproductive to the following. 

 

What must happen is that enough People unequivocally say that ADEQUATE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL RESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES is mandatory for the People's elected officials to implement in the most efficient and economical way possible. 

It's the People's Country and it exists solely for their well being.  Just like the founding documents say.  IF they say it, that's the way it has to be.  Period.

 

NOW....we all know where it is we are going.  We've always been able to figure out how best to get there and this issue is no different than any other we've faced and dealt with successfully AS A PEOPLE once we had a common purpose.  "We Did It Before and We Can Do It Again".  See.....thing is....I'm not much on 'belief' as the end all be all, but I do believe we can do this.

 

It CAN'T be done if we fixate on small detail when it's the end result that actually counts. Quit the preoccupation with all the bs, agree on this and get down to doing the real business of the People....it's their Country.  Let Democracy speak on it's own for a change.

 

 


No "small" details - the Republicans are constantly lying about the huge ADDITIONAL cost for getting Universal single Payer, and that lie needs to be put to rest to prevent people from voting against their own interests AGAIN.

 

It's like the lies told about the effect of raising the cap on SS - how it won't raise enough revenue, but NOBODY has done the calculations when the cap is raised all at once, only when its phased in over a decade during which the SSTF goes belly up.

 

Same with Universal health care - all sorts of GOPer lies about how much we're now paying for overhead, how Government is automatically inefficient and how paying the bills will somehow "take over 1/6th of the Economy". People need the TRUTH, and hopefully they'll take a sceond to google the same figures I've used and see the money for Universal Health Care is ALREADY THERE, being wasted for OVERHEAD caused by absurd systems that can be eliminated in a heartbeat - there's only ONE set of forms and ONE payment schedule for Medicare, and son of a gun, it works like a charm.

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Message 18 of 19

@Olderscout66 All valid points.  All points that should be needless to make in a Nation dedicated to the principles and values of our Constitutution.  ".....Government of the People, by the People and for the People....", Lincoln said. 

 

You may want to consider leaving out the Single Payer qualification as that may be counterproductive to the following. 

 

What must happen is that enough People unequivocally say that ADEQUATE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL RESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES is mandatory for the People's elected officials to implement in the most efficient and economical way possible. 

It's the People's Country and it exists solely for their well being.  Just like the founding documents say.  IF they say it, that's the way it has to be.  Period.

 

NOW....we all know where it is we are going.  We've always been able to figure out how best to get there and this issue is no different than any other we've faced and dealt with successfully AS A PEOPLE once we had a common purpose.  "We Did It Before and We Can Do It Again".  See.....thing is....I'm not much on 'belief' as the end all be all, but I do believe we can do this.

 

It CAN'T be done if we fixate on small detail when it's the end result that actually counts. Quit the preoccupation with all the bs, agree on this and get down to doing the real business of the People....it's their Country.  Let Democracy speak on it's own for a change.

 

 

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Universal, Single Payer Health Care for All Americans

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Message 19 of 19

How would we pay for Universal Coverage, Single Payer health insurance in the US?
From savings in the $3.3 Trillion we currently waste to get the 37th best health care outcomes.

First off, Universal Coverage means NOBODY RIDES FREE. That means we need to find the funds for 44 Million American Citizens who are not currently covered by health insurance, including the 4 million healthy young people who dropped Obamacare as soon as Trump eliminated the penalty for going uninsured.

Hospitals account for $1.7 Trillion of the total cost of health care, and numerous studies place their overhead costs above 25%, most recently 25.3%  That’s $430.1 Billion each year for OVERHEAD.(https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/.../us-healthcare-prices-reflect-huge-administr… )


 Doctors and Clinics account for $665 Billion, and their overhead is likely to be an even higher percent simply because they have a smaller “base” to spread the overhead agains, but still have to deal with the same mountian of different forms required by the Insurance Industry. So that’s at least ($665 x .253=) $168.2 Billion for overhead.

With single payer there will be ONE claims form and ONE set of approved charges for each geographic area, which will be the CURRENT AMOUNTS AGREED TO BY INSURERS AND PROVIDERS. There will be no "out of network" or "uninsured patient" fees because EVERYONE will be in the same "network" and everybody will be insured.

 

There is no way this will reduce overhead by LESS than 30% of current levesl, so the savings from this one act would be (430.1 x .3=) $129 Billion from Hospitals and ($168.2 x ..3=) $50.5 Billion from doctors and clinics, total $179.5 Billion

Insurance Companies collected $859.9 Billion in premiums so their overhead would be (17% according to their proponents)  $143.7Billion. Their savings will be at least 30% or  $43.9 Billion .

The new single payer agency will pay the providers $168.2 Billion less than they now receive and collect the same amounts from the insurance companies they currently provide PLUS the proration of that $43.9Billion, so there will be ($179.5 + $43.9=) $223.4 Billion to provide for the 44 million uninsured, or $5077 EACH, considerably more than the Obamacare Silver plan. Now, those 4 million GOPer induced freeloaders will not receive subsidities nor will any of the 44 M who can afford but chose not to buy insurance.

The insurance companies will RECEIVE that additional $223.4 Billion, less 2% for overhead at the Single Payer according to how the newly insured decide to purchase their insurance. The care providers will no longer have to cover the cost of the uninsured using the ER as their family doctor, the society will no longer need to pay the much greater costs of treating illness only when its gotten so bad the ER will see the patient, and only GOPers will suffer and the suffering will be entirely psychological and their own fault.

 

There might be some adjustments to get exact figures, but not much and we can do this TODAY, except for the obstructionist Republicans who see health care as another chain the Oligarchs can use to bind their workers to their underpaid jobs and will do everything in their power to keep that chain from being broken.

VOTE OUT THE NRAGOP IN NOVEMBER.

 

 

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