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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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@Olderscout66wrote:

The flaw in our Democracy is the NRAGOP. The policy of the Republican party since Ike has been to "Divide and Rule".

 

When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964, the Dixiecrats. who had been motivated to vote Democratic for 100 years because of their hatred of Lincoln and the 13th Amendment, switched parties and became the new base of the NRAGOP.

 

When Nixon launched his Southern Strategy, he elevated the hate mongers in the south to respectability, advancing their bogus claims about how they just wanted to preserve their "heritage" which is what they called Jim Crow in polite society.

 

There is no rational reason for racial hatred, so NRAGOPers began making up lies to justify their personal and institutional racism. Biggest lies involve claiming it's a defense of Freedom to protect and promote White Supremacy.

 

Then Reagan declaired War on the Federal Government, telling his followers that "the Government is not the solution. The Government is the PROBLEM." This wasn't his idea, but being the perfect salesman, when the leadership of the NRAGOP told him that was what he needed to sell, he took on the belief that it was the right thing, andthat's what makes the best salseman- someone who truly believes in their product.

 

To allow others to advance this absurd notion that Americans are better off "going it alone" than coming together to do amazing things, Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine in braodcasting which for decades had prevented the pollution of our media with the vitrolic hatred of racism. sexism and hyper-Nationalism. Enter Rush Limbaugh, followed quickly by a host of other hate mongers disguising their divisive agenda by calling it "entertainment.

 

Then we got Murdock who went to court and won the Right To Lie And Call It News.  Since then his Network has been a constant and consistant propagandist for Republican action and policy. People who watch Fox STILL think Saddam was behind 9/11 and was building Nukes, that Bill and Hillary committed greivous crimes and the FBI is part of a vast Communist conspiracy to take away their guns. The NRAGOP officials run on the lies from Fox, Breightbart and Infowars instead of the best interests of the American people.

 

Working together we won WWII and created amazing things to benefit ALL Americans- the lock and dam system on our great rivers, electrified our farms, built the Golden Gate, Hoover Dam and the InterState, sent men to walk on the Moon, gave our kids the worlds best free public education and created the Middle Class.

 

Then Reagan's tax scam redistributed the wealth of the middle class to the very top of the 1%, and what has happened? We no longer can afford to provide the best education for our kids, and Republicans want to turn the whole process over to for-profit Cormprations. Our health care system is twice as expensive and delivers half the outcomes of the next most expensive system, Our Astronauts have to bum a ride to the International Space Station with the Russians. Every year the gap between rich and poor GROWS when it had been shrinking for 40 years pre-Reagan. Our best paying jobs have been sent to Commies in Asia because the 1% makes more money that way. Republican passed laws allow employers to bring in visa workers for half the price to fill our STEM jobs, and then blame the schools for not producing enough Americans with the right skills.

 

Folks, it doesn't HAVE to bethis way, but so long as the NRAGOP can keep redistributing the wealth from the middle to the very top, as they did with the latest taxscam that took $1.4Trillion FROM We the People and handed it to the Corporate Oligarchs, it will CONTINUE to get much worse for the 99%. Der Trumper and the NRAGOP are doing their utmost to destroy everything Government does to prevent the 1% from preying on the 99%, and the Republicans cheer them on.

 


Got it  - in order to fix democracy, you create a one Party system, you prohibit corporations from having anyone state their case to pols who can greatly effect them (lessens the free market concept). Then get rid of news sources that do not deliver the Party Line. Lie about white supremacists - claiming everyone not in agreement with your "vision" is one. Attack the concept of "The government is the problem" in an effort to create the total dependency on the government you want. Attack the idea of independence or self-sufficiency - again, gotta get that dependency. And, of course, avail yourself of the property of others via creating hatred of the successful and demanding wealth redistribution.

 

Yep, that sure sounds like the path to democracy.

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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Message 2 of 54

The flaw in our Democracy is the NRAGOP. The policy of the Republican party since Ike has been to "Divide and Rule".

 

When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964, the Dixiecrats. who had been motivated to vote Democratic for 100 years because of their hatred of Lincoln and the 13th Amendment, switched parties and became the new base of the NRAGOP.

 

When Nixon launched his Southern Strategy, he elevated the hate mongers in the south to respectability, advancing their bogus claims about how they just wanted to preserve their "heritage" which is what they called Jim Crow in polite society.

 

There is no rational reason for racial hatred, so NRAGOPers began making up lies to justify their personal and institutional racism. Biggest lies involve claiming it's a defense of Freedom to protect and promote White Supremacy.

 

Then Reagan declaired War on the Federal Government, telling his followers that "the Government is not the solution. The Government is the PROBLEM." This wasn't his idea, but being the perfect salesman, when the leadership of the NRAGOP told him that was what he needed to sell, he took on the belief that it was the right thing, andthat's what makes the best salseman- someone who truly believes in their product.

 

To allow others to advance this absurd notion that Americans are better off "going it alone" than coming together to do amazing things, Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine in braodcasting which for decades had prevented the pollution of our media with the vitrolic hatred of racism. sexism and hyper-Nationalism. Enter Rush Limbaugh, followed quickly by a host of other hate mongers disguising their divisive agenda by calling it "entertainment.

 

Then we got Murdock who went to court and won the Right To Lie And Call It News.  Since then his Network has been a constant and consistant propagandist for Republican action and policy. People who watch Fox STILL think Saddam was behind 9/11 and was building Nukes, that Bill and Hillary committed greivous crimes and the FBI is part of a vast Communist conspiracy to take away their guns. The NRAGOP officials run on the lies from Fox, Breightbart and Infowars instead of the best interests of the American people.

 

Working together we won WWII and created amazing things to benefit ALL Americans- the lock and dam system on our great rivers, electrified our farms, built the Golden Gate, Hoover Dam and the InterState, sent men to walk on the Moon, gave our kids the worlds best free public education and created the Middle Class.

 

Then Reagan's tax scam redistributed the wealth of the middle class to the very top of the 1%, and what has happened? We no longer can afford to provide the best education for our kids, and Republicans want to turn the whole process over to for-profit Cormprations. Our health care system is twice as expensive and delivers half the outcomes of the next most expensive system, Our Astronauts have to bum a ride to the International Space Station with the Russians. Every year the gap between rich and poor GROWS when it had been shrinking for 40 years pre-Reagan. Our best paying jobs have been sent to Commies in Asia because the 1% makes more money that way. Republican passed laws allow employers to bring in visa workers for half the price to fill our STEM jobs, and then blame the schools for not producing enough Americans with the right skills.

 

Folks, it doesn't HAVE to bethis way, but so long as the NRAGOP can keep redistributing the wealth from the middle to the very top, as they did with the latest taxscam that took $1.4Trillion FROM We the People and handed it to the Corporate Oligarchs, it will CONTINUE to get much worse for the 99%. Der Trumper and the NRAGOP are doing their utmost to destroy everything Government does to prevent the 1% from preying on the 99%, and the Republicans cheer them on.

 

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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Message 3 of 54

@rk9152wrote:

 

As to the topic - yes, each step towards a strong central government controlling more and more of our lives and making us more and more dependent does make our democracy increasingly flawed.


 


I am so glad to have seen your above post. for a minute there, I thought you were ok with the action of the Ga State goverment telling Delta that unless they continue doing business with the NRA  they would  not be able to get the fuel bill that they desired. Good for you RK!!!!

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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@smcawrote:

@rk9152wrote:
What did the report say about recent tax law and how does "stricter gun laws" translate into "democracy"? I believe there is a bit of interpretation occurring here.
Troll.png

 

Sound like someone is evading the point he/she/it brought up.  


 

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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Message 5 of 54

@rk9152wrote:
What did the report say about recent tax law and how does "stricter gun laws" translate into "democracy"? I believe there is a bit of interpretation occurring here.
Troll.png

 

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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@rk9152wrote:

@sp362wrote:


Yes we are a great nation and in order to continue to be a great nation, we need to keep improving.

IMO, the major problem we have is that too many people believe that America is all knowing and everything we do is better than somebody else.  The problem with that is you never look at what others are doing and incorporate their best ideas into your Government.

To give you a business analogy:

You have a company that sells a million units of a product and has every year for the last 10 years.  Sounds good right?  The problem is that the market for the product has been increasing for the last 10 years.  10 years ago, their market share was 20% and is now 15%.  Even though sales are the same, Wall Street sees that as a declining business that is in trouble.  It is the old adage, if you are not moving ahead, than you are falling behind.


I do not know if your evaluation of the American thinking is correct or not. However, we did create a model of democracy for the world and we have been maintaining it, not by looking to others but by showing others.

 

Remember, the topic is democracy and democracy does not involve wealth redistribution, socialized medicine, salary parity, etc. Our system does have inequities of outcome because we only guarantee freedom of opportunity - but that is democracy.

 


We we never founded as a true Democracy.  The first definition of Democracy by Websters is "a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority "

 

Yes, other countries have learned from us.  Isn't it obvious that others have learned what works, what doesn't and what could be done better and surpassed us in terms of being a Democracy?  Our unwillingness to improve is what has been allowing others to surpass us.

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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@sp362wrote:


Yes we are a great nation and in order to continue to be a great nation, we need to keep improving.

IMO, the major problem we have is that too many people believe that America is all knowing and everything we do is better than somebody else.  The problem with that is you never look at what others are doing and incorporate their best ideas into your Government.

To give you a business analogy:

You have a company that sells a million units of a product and has every year for the last 10 years.  Sounds good right?  The problem is that the market for the product has been increasing for the last 10 years.  10 years ago, their market share was 20% and is now 15%.  Even though sales are the same, Wall Street sees that as a declining business that is in trouble.  It is the old adage, if you are not moving ahead, than you are falling behind.


I do not know if your evaluation of the American thinking is correct or not. However, we did create a model of democracy for the world and we have been maintaining it, not by looking to others but by showing others.

 

Remember, the topic is democracy and democracy does not involve wealth redistribution, socialized medicine, salary parity, etc. Our system does have inequities of outcome because we only guarantee freedom of opportunity - but that is democracy.

 

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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@rk9152wrote:

@sp362wrote:


This is what I posted about it, what do you disagree with?

"That is the way I interpreted your response, if it was incorrect than I am sorry.  Again if you want to look at the methodology and challenge that, or the classification of the final rating, that is fine.  They assigned points to 60 different questions and when averaged out to a scale with a maximum of 10, if you got 8.01 or more you were a Democracy and 8.00 and under (I didn't look at what the ending point was), you were a Failed Democracy.  Personally, I think that statement is arbitrary and fairly meaningless.  If I did the math right, one "yes" on one of the questions would have reclassified us into the Democracy category.  More importantly is where we fall on this list (that is probably about right), who is above and below us (especially the countries in 20th and 22nd place) and whether we are moving up, down or staying the same. "


We are a great nation, we have been a model of democracy for the world. If someone doing a study determines that there is something wrong with us because the EC is part of our basic electoral structure - so be it.


Yes we are a great nation and in order to continue to be a great nation, we need to keep improving.

IMO, the major problem we have is that too many people believe that America is all knowing and everything we do is better than somebody else.  The problem with that is you never look at what others are doing and incorporate their best ideas into your Government.

To give you a business analogy:

You have a company that sells a million units of a product and has every year for the last 10 years.  Sounds good right?  The problem is that the market for the product has been increasing for the last 10 years.  10 years ago, their market share was 20% and is now 15%.  Even though sales are the same, Wall Street sees that as a declining business that is in trouble.  It is the old adage, if you are not moving ahead, than you are falling behind.

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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Message 9 of 54

@Roxanna35wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@sp362wrote:


This is what I posted about it, what do you disagree with?

"That is the way I interpreted your response, if it was incorrect than I am sorry.  Again if you want to look at the methodology and challenge that, or the classification of the final rating, that is fine.  They assigned points to 60 different questions and when averaged out to a scale with a maximum of 10, if you got 8.01 or more you were a Democracy and 8.00 and under (I didn't look at what the ending point was), you were a Failed Democracy.  Personally, I think that statement is arbitrary and fairly meaningless.  If I did the math right, one "yes" on one of the questions would have reclassified us into the Democracy category.  More importantly is where we fall on this list (that is probably about right), who is above and below us (especially the countries in 20th and 22nd place) and whether we are moving up, down or staying the same. "


We are a great nation, we have been a model of democracy for the world. If someone doing a study determines that there is something wrong with us because the EC is part of our basic electoral structure - so be it.


Rk  I do understand your predicament. when we get old changes are very difficult to accept. and we all tend to look to the past in order to say that things were always a lot better than in the present.
Your refusal to see how much things have changed in this country is what makes you post irrelevant 
The world has gone forward and you cannot apparently understand that. Yes, we are now in the recessive status. I guess it happens to all great nations. you reach a peak and then start going down.


I see your problem - as we age, our attention span tends to be reduced and we tend to make up things that do not exist in order to justify our positions.

 

For example, my supposed refusal to see changes. I actually see them - I see the march of the neoMarxists as having created much change.

 

I understand your other problem - as we age we have a hard time following a conversation. For example, your "recessive" comment. It can only be the rapid approach of antiquity that would stop you from seeing that that is exactly my thinking on the Progressive Movement.

 

As to the topic - yes, each step towards a strong central government controlling more and more of our lives and making us more and more dependent does make our democracy increasingly flawed.


 

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Re: USA = A Flawed Democracy!

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Message 10 of 54

@smcawrote:

@rk9152wrote:
We are a great nation, we have been a model of democracy for the world. If someone doing a study determines that there is something wrong with us because the EC is part of our basic electoral structure - so be it.  

Getting back to the topic:  

  • "The Economist's 2017 Democracy Index can help Trump understand why we don't have more immigrants from Norway or any of those other Commie/Socialist countries in Northern Europe with their good schools, universal healthcare, low poverty, lesser inequality, stricter gun laws, etc.
  • As shown on the map & ranking table (see original post), those countries are considered "Full Democracies" while we're in the "Flawed" category. One major reason for our relatively poor showing is our economic inequality which the report agrees with many of us, will worsen due the recent tax law."

What did the report say about recent tax law and how does "stricter gun laws" translate into "democracy"? I believe there is a bit of interpretation occurring here.

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