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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 31 of 53

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Foreigners want to live where freedom is widespread, opportunities are great, government is not overbearing, taxation is fair (low), and a safe environment. Why would anyone want to come to a place with oppressive taxes with loads of laws/regulations and a tax system that requires a CPA?


They probably would not. Most capitalistic countries complete the tax forms for their citizens and simply ask them to review and add anything for which the government was not already notified. We tried that here, to the applause of citizens, and the CPAs and tax software industries killed it.  More examples of the wealthy getting benefits and the 90% getting shafted. NEXT example? 

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 32 of 53

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

The reason why people all over the world travel here to begin the process of becoming a citizen is this is still the land of opportunity despite the fact that the left want to remove this option. One can still be poor and come up with a good idea and capitalize on that idea to make him/her a millionaire or even billionaire.  There are those Democrat candidates that want desperately to remove the possibility of gaining such wealth by implementing an outrageous rate of income tax and wealth taxes to redistribute that wealth to those that weren't so successful. 


Yes but that is changing fast. Immigrants have been diverting to Canada where their were originally destined to the United States.  Asian countries are now attracting entrepreneurs.  I would also point out that your argument of "other people are far worse off" is exactly the point North Korea has been pounding into its population.  It only works if it is true and when you are one of several hundred newly unemployed factory workers with no prospects. It seems true no longer.

 

In short, the conservatives should use Alfred E Newman of Mad Magazine fame as their mascot.  He also used the motto "What? Me worry?".   I suppose that is better than their current motto of "let them eat cake". 

 

 

“The United States is no longer an aspirational place, no longer a land of opportunity,” said Lee Inwoo, the 25-year-old director of video effectiveness at video creator Shakr Media in South Korea. “The America we are seeing now is one where long-standing issues of racism, income inequality and immoral capitalism are now clear to see.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/04/12/donald-trump-asia-perspective-opinion-united-st...


Foreigners want to live where freedom is widespread, opportunities are great, government is not overbearing, taxation is fair (low), and a safe environment. Why would anyone want to come to a place with oppressive taxes with loads of laws/regulations and a tax system that requires a CPA?

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 33 of 53

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

The reason why people all over the world travel here to begin the process of becoming a citizen is this is still the land of opportunity despite the fact that the left want to remove this option. One can still be poor and come up with a good idea and capitalize on that idea to make him/her a millionaire or even billionaire.  There are those Democrat candidates that want desperately to remove the possibility of gaining such wealth by implementing an outrageous rate of income tax and wealth taxes to redistribute that wealth to those that weren't so successful. 


Yes but that is changing fast. Immigrants have been diverting to Canada where their were originally destined to the United States.  Asian countries are now attracting entrepreneurs.  I would also point out that your argument of "other people are far worse off" is exactly the point North Korea has been pounding into its population.  It only works if it is true and when you are one of several hundred newly unemployed factory workers with no prospects. It seems true no longer.

 

In short, the conservatives should use Alfred E Newman of Mad Magazine fame as their mascot.  He also used the motto "What? Me worry?".   I suppose that is better than their current motto of "let them eat cake". 

 

 

“The United States is no longer an aspirational place, no longer a land of opportunity,” said Lee Inwoo, the 25-year-old director of video effectiveness at video creator Shakr Media in South Korea. “The America we are seeing now is one where long-standing issues of racism, income inequality and immoral capitalism are now clear to see.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/04/12/donald-trump-asia-perspective-opinion-united-st...

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 34 of 53

The reason why people all over the world travel here to begin the process of becoming a citizen is this is still the land of opportunity despite the fact that the left want to remove this option. One can still be poor and come up with a good idea and capitalize on that idea to make him/her a millionaire or even billionaire.  There are those Democrat candidates that want desperately to remove the possibility of gaining such wealth by implementing an outrageous rate of income tax and wealth taxes to redistribute that wealth to those that weren't so successful. 

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 35 of 53

The reason Billionaires are becoming concerned is that they know slogans will not shore up a system which takes from the poor and rewards the rich. Especially the inherited rich. It is all very well to TALK about rewarding individual initiative but if the only individuals being rewarded are the wealthy and the children of the wealthy, it is really an empty slogan. 

 

There is a free market of ideas along with a free market of goods and services. Each consumer of ideas makes an independent decision about the value of the idea, or economic system, to himself and his family. With 90% of America's wealth in the hands of 10% of its citizens, it is not hard to predict what those individual decisions are going to be. 

 

The American form of capitalism is rapidly becoming the Radio Shack of economic theories and will end much the same way. 

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 36 of 53

Here are some things to think about on this subject. Everyone is looking at it as a problem in the USA. Now could this be part of a world wide problem, and being brought upon us by the same people who have  given the US a Trump for President? Is there a group of wealthy who are behind this. Russia is controlled by wealthy people who are under Putin. There is reason to believe Trump may owe up to 2 billion to them through the German bank. I could spend 10 pages on this but here are some quick facts.

1. USA: Trump leads the effort.  Steve Banon was involved as a close adviser. Banon was brought into this by the Mercer family. That family put up a lot of money to the campaign, and gave us Kelly Ann to. The Ed. Sec. is a member as is Eric Prince (Black water), and they own Brightbart.

2. Brexit (Great Britain) Nigel F was a leader. Banon was a close adviser and Trump a supporter.

3. France: Hard push to elect Pein  but she lost. Banon was involved in her effort, and Trump supported her.

4. Eastern Europe: Number of countries have gone far right under one man rule like the US. Banon was involved in every country. Trump has supported all of them.

5. Italy: Has a far right government after the last election. Banon was involved in the effort, and Trump supported it.

6. In the USA: AL Senate election (Roy Moore). Banon was involved, and Trump campaigned for him. He lost.

7. Last Sunday on TV we heard about the latest effort. Banon was in Rome and on TV from there. He is working on over throwing the Pope. He told us that on TV. Why? Because the current liefest Pope does not understand the rich people of the world, and wants to help the poor at their expense. (NOW FROM BANONS MOUTH WE HEAR WHAT COULD BE THE COMMON PATH IN ALL OF THIS) Banon has purchased an old monastery in Italy to be a training school for leaders of this total movement, and given it a million dollars to start from him. (Could that be Mercer money) Money he tells us is flowing in. Some came from a RC organization lead by a Priest Hq. outside Detroit MI. People living in a near by town do not want this group around their town. They carry signs reading Keep the Fachiest Out. Banon said on TV that his group is not fachest but a Nationalist Group (Same thing).

 

It would look like this might be an effort by the very rich to create a world wide society they would control like here in the US. It might be well to think about a world wide problem that does involve Banon and his funders, plus Trump who they are using since Trump could never plan and carry out such a project so in a way he is being used also.

Think about this and keep an eye on what is going on world wide, and yes we still have to cure the problem in the US. That can be done in a year by not voting for Trump.

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 37 of 53

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

@rk9152 

Once again, wealth redistribution already took place via the “welfare program” repub tax cuts for the wealthy.

A real repub “socialist” program...government redistribution. 

Again - those who don't pay tax do not get a tax cut. Those who do pay taxes (aka "the wealthy") do benefit from tax cuts.

 

would be interesting to see the percentage of charitable giving by the wealthy. Charitable giving does not have the same impact as government programs for those who need help. 

True - the point however was the cheapness of those so anxious to spend other people's money.


 


I still do not understand how you can justify a system which puts 90% of the wealth into the hands of 10% of the people and keeps it there generation after generation.  


i prefer a system based on individual accomplishment than one based government determination of who gets what.

 

I can understand the inheritance thing. But, If I kick the bucket with $50K in the bank, I should have been able to create a will that transfers my property to my kids. The principle does not change with the addition of zeros.


I would prefer a system based on individual accomplishment too.  Maybe we can copy one from the Netherlands or the Canadians?

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 38 of 53

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

All the class-envy posts overlook the fact that when considering charitable giving, the right does more than the left. It seems like the right takes personal action where the left wants to redistribute other peoples' money.


No. Liberals want to actually solve problems. And higher taxes and support for social services, education, etc. does that more effectively than charity ever has.

 

“Those in favor of lower taxes have argued that individuals are more capable than the government of allocating money to important causes, including people in need of assistance. But the study found that was not true. Donations do not match government assistance, and without tax money, social services are not funded as robustly. 

 

“The evidence shows that private philanthropy can’t compensate for the loss of government provision,” Dr. Nesbit said. “It’s not equal. What government can put into these things is so much more than what we see through private philanthropy.”

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/your-money/republicans-democrats-charity-philanthropy.html

 


Yes, the liberals want the government to solve the problem using other people's money. Conservatives personally make the effort using their own money.

 

Your source is only saying that philanthropy can't replace government programs. My point has to do with the individual willingness (or lack thereof) to put their own money into charities.


It’s not other people’s money. It’s our American money helping fellow Americans. 

 

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 39 of 53

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

@rk9152 

Once again, wealth redistribution already took place via the “welfare program” repub tax cuts for the wealthy.

A real repub “socialist” program...government redistribution. 

Again - those who don't pay tax do not get a tax cut. Those who do pay taxes (aka "the wealthy") do benefit from tax cuts.

 

would be interesting to see the percentage of charitable giving by the wealthy. Charitable giving does not have the same impact as government programs for those who need help. 

True - the point however was the cheapness of those so anxious to spend other people's money.


 


I still do not understand how you can justify a system which puts 90% of the wealth into the hands of 10% of the people and keeps it there generation after generation.  


i prefer a system based on individual accomplishment than one based government determination of who gets what.

 

I can understand the inheritance thing. But, If I kick the bucket with $50K in the bank, I should have been able to create a will that transfers my property to my kids. The principle does not change with the addition of zeros.

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Re: U.S. Billionaires worry about the future of Capitalism

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Message 40 of 53

@rk9152 wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

@rk9152 

Once again, wealth redistribution already took place via the “welfare program” repub tax cuts for the wealthy.

A real repub “socialist” program...government redistribution. 

Again - those who don't pay tax do not get a tax cut. Those who do pay taxes (aka "the wealthy") do benefit from tax cuts.

 

would be interesting to see the percentage of charitable giving by the wealthy. Charitable giving does not have the same impact as government programs for those who need help. 

True - the point however was the cheapness of those so anxious to spend other people's money.


 


I still do not understand how you can justify a system which puts 90% of the wealth into the hands of 10% of the people and keeps it there generation after generation.  

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