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Two presidents of the Confederacy

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Honored Social Butterfly

Is anyone surprised that the leader of an ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY is trying to preserve monuments to those who supported slavery and seceding from the United States?

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The Modern Day Confederacy

Honored Social Butterfly

You cannot justify honoring the men who worked hard to be able to sell children. 

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Richva posted- You cannot justify honoring the men who worked hard to be able to sell children. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------We forgiven you Democrats decades ago.No blacks alive were  slaves and no whites alive  owned slaves. BTW-My ancestors fought for the North and never owned slaves. The South slave owners composed of less than 10 % of the population. Most people couldn`t afford to own slaves even in the south.

Honored Social Butterfly

What people need to understand is this seachange in Ameriicans' attitude toward our public monuments is not about hiding "History", its a demand, after 3 1/2 years ofbeing constantly LIED TO AND ABOUT by the ToadPOTUS and his enablers, PEOPLE WANT THE TRUTH TO COME OUT ABOUT OUR HISTORY.

 

There needs to be some moderation - the fact that Washington, Jefferson and others of our Founding Fathers owned slaves does not mitigate the FACT we would still be a possession of England were it not for those slave owners who gave AMERICA it's Freedom.

 

This cannot just be about removing statues of those who tried to destroy our Nation. We need to INSURE future generations learn the Civil War was fought by the LEADERS of the Confederacy for the sole purpose of expanding the evils of slavery to new States as well as preserving it in the South. It should not vilify those who believed their leaders LIES and went to fight, bleed and DIE for those LIES any more than we should condemn the soldiers of the Wehrmacht for all being responsible for the Holocaust.

 

In short, the movement should concentrate on making sure kids learn that THINGS MUST CHANGE for there to be any chance they will get better.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Keeping the statue of a Confederate officer or politician is like putting up a statue to Timothy Mcvey in Oklahoma City. A few people would defend that too but most find the idea offensive

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Honored Social Butterfly

Richva posted-Keeping the statue of a Confederate officer or politician is like putting up a statue to Timothy Mcvey in Oklahoma City. A few people would defend that too but most find the idea offensive------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bad analogy -It is estimated that there are  over 100 million people  living today who ancestors  fought for the south. Robert E Lee was strongly considered to be a candidate for President  of the     United States before the Civil War.  Too bad the Democrat still want to fight the civil war and divide the country.

Honored Social Butterfly

Bobby Lee was very popular, and for some remains so today. However, he chose to give his services to the forces of slavery knowing he could not operate his slave powered plantation without slaves.

 

Had he not provided his considerable military talents to the Confederacy, the War would've been over before it started because that great admiration Lee received was a big reason the soldiers of the Confederacy believed the Great Lie that they were fighting for States Rights instead of the Truth - they fought bled and died for SLAVERY and the continued wealth of the plantation owners.

 

In short, Lee needs to be remembered AS he was, not as many Southerners today WISH he was. For that to happen his statues need to be in places of learning, like museums. Those millions(??) today who had ancestors who fought in the Civil War need to understand while their ancestors may have believed they were fighting to prevent Northern Aggression against their beloved State, the REALITY is they were duped into fighting to protect the wealth and property of a handful of incredibly rich plantation owners, They need to know the leaders of the Confederacy exempted their slave owning supporters from military service during the war and they introduced legislation to "allow" poor white farmers to sell THEMSELVES into slavery to settle their debts, protecting the wealth of the plantation owners while adding a whole new group (poor whites) to the salve population.

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@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

They need to know the leaders of the Confederacy exempted their slave owning supporters from military service during the war and they introduced legislation to "allow" poor white farmers to sell THEMSELVES into slavery to settle their debts, protecting the wealth of the plantation owners while adding a whole new group (poor whites) to the salve population.


 

From what I see it appears that it is only those without roots in the South that is continually bringing this topic up, and mostly with their own facts and opinion without basic research.  Those of us with roots in the South have moved on from the Civil War and are more concerned with the future of OUR country.  Posters indicating regionalism comes across as bent on splitting the country again into regions.

 

Regarding ancestors being duped into fighting for rich slave-owners.  I have documentation (U.S. Census Slave Schedules) that my ancestors were not slave owners, believing that if a family couldn't produce to support their family, they didn't deserve it.  

 

The area of Tennessee they lived (the Kentucky border in middle Tennessee) was plagued by vigilante raiders crossing south along the border destroying, killing, etc people that was actually pro-union.  The reason they fought with the south was to protect against these outlaw vigilantes. Still the destruction was so intense that it was only in the-20th century that the area was seeing recovery.

 

As far as General Lee, it is apparent the loyalty one's state back in the 19th century was stronger than that of the United States.  Lee turned down Lincoln wanting to put him command of Union force out of loyalty to his native state.

 

I could ask how many here who keeps dragging up the conflict actually had an ancestor that was engaged in the war.  How many had ancestors who immigrated to the country after that conflict.  I'm guessing very few.  Several years ago a poster was negative about it, yet later admitted his ancestors on immigrated to the country in the 1870's.

 

I read this in the latest issue of American Heritage online:

 

"It is good to remember that in the decades after the Civil War, men in Congress who only a few years before had fought desperately to kill each other, often in very brutal and personal ways, were able to work together to pass legislation that helped to build the great nation that emerged on the world stage in the 20th Century. 

 

"At least there is an important lesson in that history."

 

Are there those today who want to tear the nation apart again?

 

Honored Social Butterfly

Intelligent people understand the Confederate Flag stands for SLAVERY and SECEDING from the United States. That is a fact, it isn't bias. 

 

And the ALL WHITE TRUMP REPUBLICAN PARTY is very comfortable supporting racism and bigotry, that is their mantra. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

Intelligent people understand the Confederate Flag stands for SLAVERY and SECEDING from the United States. That is a fact, it isn't bias. 

 

Intelligent people realize that the Civil War was over and we are all one nation moving forward.  The united in the United States means that we are now one nation.  They don't keep dwelling on it along with accusations of regionalism.  My guess is they are attempting to fractionalize the country again to keep it from coming together.  Can't say they are using critical thinking. 

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

 

The united in the United States means that we are now one nation.  
My guess is they are attempting to fractionalize the country again to keep it from coming together. 

 


I think you are sadly mistaken if you think this country isn't fractionalized (sp) already.

 

If this country wasn't, then why would there be the KKK, The Proud Boys, The American Nazi Party, American Freedom Party, and Aryan Nations.

 

From my point of view, those that are voicing their disdain regarding the demonstrations that are taking place today weren't so fast in voicing their disdain at the WHITE SUPREMACIST demonstrations in Charlottesville.

 

Let me think of an example........ oh yeah, Donald J. Trump.

 

 

 

 

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
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Honored Social Butterfly

As I stated earlier, members of Trump's ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY, take pride in the Confederate flag and what it stands for, which is slavery and seceding from the United States. This isn't about our history, it's about bigotry and racism. Trump and his supporters are very comfortable in that area.

Honored Social Butterfly

 

CT posted-As I stated earlier, members of Trump's ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY, take pride in the Confederate flag and what it stands for, which is slavery and seceding from the United States. This isn't about our history, it's about bigotry and racism. Trump and his supporters are very comfortable in that area.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Factually incorrect=There are no nonwhite freshman senators. In the full 116th Congress, the overwhelming majority of racial and ethnic nonwhite members are Democrats (90%), while just 10% are RepublicansNon-Hispanic whites make up 78% of voting members in the new Congress, considerably larger than their 61% share of the U.S. population overall.---In addition ,100 years after the civil war the Democrats were anti- black. Thanks to the Republicans in 1964 the Civil Rights Act was passed. It would have been defeated if left to the Democrats . Since then ,unbelievably , blacks have been slaves to the Democrats when it comes to politics,promising them everything but never delivering

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Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

As I stated earlier, members of Trump's ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY, take pride in the Confederate flag and what it stands for, which is slavery and seceding from the United States. This isn't about our history, it's about bigotry and racism. Trump and his supporters are very comfortable in that area.


 

Of course another who is biased more so than those being accused and still fighting the Civil War while others have moved along in serving and defending OUR nation.. Labeling anyone who disagrees with you..  Move along folks since there is not a critical thinker here.

 

 

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

First off, I'm no fan of Jeff Davis or any of the leaders of the Rebellion, but just for fun, if we only had a time machine....

 

....we could go back in time and substitute the second for the first. He'd tell the Southern States "you're on your own guys - pay no attention to Bobby Lee and his war experts, and by the way, you'll be bidding against each other for the supplies you'll need from overseas"  And Jeff Davis (no slouch at organization or taking action) would have begun our response to Covid when he first heard about it back in NOVEMBER.

 

Instead of the bloodiest war and deadliest Pandemic, we'd have a self-collapsing insurrection that would've ended at Ft Sumner when the Rebels ran out of shot and shell after the first volley,  and our Covid deaths would be in the single digits.

 
 

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

Iris, isn't it interesting that many members of Trump World are still fighting the Civil War 155 years after it ended? For them, the Confederate Flag is a source of pride and a symbol of how they view our country. What else would you expect from an ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

Iris, isn't it interesting that many members of Trump World are still fighting the Civil War 155 years after it ended? For them, the Confederate Flag is a source of pride and a symbol of how they view our country. What else would you expect from an ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY?


 

From the posters here bringing up mention of the Civil War, the Confederacy, regional mention, and such, it is those mostly of Liberal opinion.  And those for whom it is questionable has served our country, the United States.  They have continually brought up for many years here in many ways.

 

The rest of us merely consider it as part of our heritage and history, much like those of us who have Native American ancestors or from other countries.  We are aware that war was over 155 years ago.

 

My European ancestors came to this country around 1650 as indentured servants, therefore our ancestry is in regards to involuntary transportation.    I have to wonder when those criticizing all this had ancestors was even here during the Civil War?

 

But there does seem to be a effort to divide us again.

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@CriticalThinking wrote:

Iris, isn't it interesting that many members of Trump World are still fighting the Civil War 155 years after it ended? For them, the Confederate Flag is a source of pride and a symbol of how they view our country. What else would you expect from an ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY?


 

From the posters here bringing up mention of the Civil War, the Confederacy, regional mention, and such, it is those mostly of Liberal opinion.  And those for whom it is questionable has served our country, the United States.  They have continually brought up for many years here in many ways.

 

The rest of us merely consider it as part of our heritage and history, much like those of us who have Native American ancestors or from other countries.  We are aware that war was over 155 years ago.

 

My European ancestors came to this country around 1650 as indentured servants, therefore our ancestry is in regards to involuntary transportation.    I have to wonder when those criticizing all this had ancestors was even here during the Civil War?

 

But there does seem to be a effort to divide us again.

 

 


Yes there is an effort to divide us again. It is lead by President Donald Trump so when Trump is out of office we can start to heal. Trump would even divide us over our armed forces as he has condoned Russia putting a bounty on our troops carrying out an assigned mission for the USA. The report to today was Russia has paid out money. This evening they say at least one pay out. That should be enough to divide every true American from Trump, and lead to ending our problem with Trump being an ex shortly.

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@CriticalThinking wrote:

Iris, isn't it interesting that many members of Trump World are still fighting the Civil War 155 years after it ended? For them, the Confederate Flag is a source of pride and a symbol of how they view our country. What else would you expect from an ALL WHITE REPUBLICAN PARTY?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Inconvenient Truth About the Republican Party - YouTube

 

Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

From the posters here bringing up mention of the Civil War, the Confederacy, regional mention, and such, it is those mostly of Liberal opinion.  And those for whom it is questionable has served our country, the United States.  They have continually brought up for many years here in many ways.

 

The rest of us merely consider it as part of our heritage and history, much like those of us who have Native American ancestors or from other countries.  We are aware that war was over 155 years ago.

 

My European ancestors came to this country around 1650 as indentured servants, therefore our ancestry is in regards to involuntary transportation.    I have to wonder when those criticizing all this had ancestors was even here during the Civil War?

 

But there does seem to be a effort to divide us again.

 

 


Does that mean you would support federal rules protecting the Indian Burial grounds from pipeline projects?  Being a lover of history and all.  I think this is just an attempt to show black people they are still second class citizens by keeping monuments glorifying the people who worked so hard to keep them on the auction block. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:


Does that mean you would support federal rules protecting the Indian Burial grounds from pipeline projects?  Being a lover of history and all.  I think this is just an attempt to show black people they are still second class citizens by keeping monuments glorifying the people who worked so hard to keep them on the auction block. 


 

I am getting the idea that you are stalking my posts. And in doing so repeating the same over and over.  

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Honored Social Butterfly

 


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

I am getting the idea that you are stalking my posts. And in doing so repeating the same over and over.  


And I thought we were having a lively debate with my posting the same facts as they seldom change. 

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