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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 31 of 39

Most immigrants learn English.  And they are learning it more rapidly than prior generations of immigrants.

 

https://www.omaha.com/news/metro/report-newer-generations-of-immigrants-learn-english-quickly-are-le...

 

 

But what exactly are American customs? Getting fat and unhealthy? Walking around with shoes on in the house? Not valuing higher education?  Driving gas guzzlers? 

 

Other than obeying the law, Which everyone must do,  it seems to me people can do as they like. American freedom and all that, right?

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 32 of 39

@mickstuder wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

Sorry Mick  you are wrong in all counts. unfortunately by your post, I can see that you don't understand one word about immigration and the positive and negative factors that exist.
By posting platitutes, you in many ways are saying nothing.


Well I can see by your attitude you're probably very unhappy - immigration isn't to Blame for anything - How many Millions of Americans will be celebrating St. Patricks this Weekend - do you have any Idea why the Irish Celebrate St Patricks Day in the USA - it's not about Religion or Booze - it's about the Great American Opportunity Called - Immigration

 

 


I can see that your characterization of ME  is surprising for a person that has not idea of who I am but obviously you don't like to be told  that you are incorrect when you post about anything. But let me count the ways. 
I am a very happy individual why?

Have 4  very successful children, have grandchildren who are adults, never been in jail have gone to college and are not into drugs.

Have a very nice retirement life. lots of friends, who like me and respect my views.

Have traveled around the word several times. speak several languages. and probably know ab out a lot of things more than most.

Unhappy.? not even sick. so my health at this time is wonderful. and I take advantage of it. so, being unhappy. why? no reason that I can see.

Almost forgot, have a 40 year marruage  and a wonderful  old husband who has been very wise and kind towards me.  So, give me one reason as to why I should be unhappy

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 33 of 39

@rker321 wrote:

Sorry Mick  you are wrong in all counts. unfortunately by your post, I can see that you don't understand one word about immigration and the positive and negative factors that exist.
By posting platitutes, you in many ways are saying nothing.


Well I can see by your attitude you're probably very unhappy - immigration isn't to Blame for anything - How many Millions of Americans will be celebrating St. Patricks this Weekend - do you have any Idea why the Irish Celebrate St Patricks Day in the USA - it's not about Religion or Booze - it's about the Great American Opportunity Called - Immigration

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 34 of 39

Sorry Mick  you are wrong in all counts. unfortunately by your post, I can see that you don't understand one word about immigration and the positive and negative factors that exist.
By posting platitutes, you in many ways are saying nothing.

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 35 of 39

@GailL1 wrote:

So how do you change the minds of those who resent immigration because of what they might believe. 

 

We are told by the experts, these concerns have little bearing on reality (facts from experts) but I have always found that “Truth is in the eye of the beholder” meaning that what one perceives as true is subjective.

 

Trying to address myths and misperceptions about immigration only with data and analysis will likely fail without addressing the legitimate worries of people.  This isn't just about the USA - many of these concerns happen elsewhere too.  In fact, my source document came from elsewhere.

 

Seems to me the more push-back there is in telling them they are WRONG - the more they feel that their views are of no consequence and anger keeps building.  To me, this is exactly why populism has emerged in many recent elections - here and elsewhere. 

 

So how can these views be changed to stop not only the violence seemingly associated with them but also to create more harmony within a country or can they be changed?

 

Some of the views associated with this:

  • News of violent extremism committed by migrants in Western countries stokes fears among some that (the country) is risking importing terror through the immigration system.
  • Others fear that even without violent extremism, immigration may threaten (the country’s) social cohesion and ignite unrest, opening the door to unpredictable backlash.
  • Another concern is that increasing flows of people from overseas or another country dilutes national identity.
  • allowing people from significantly different cultures and ethnicities to migrate breaks up national identity - dilutes local cultures and societies
  1. concerns about immigration to the more general impacts of a larger population.problems- population growth especially if in a concentrated area
  2. migrants add pressure on the housing market,
  3. migrants put a strain on infrastructure including education and health care and more government spending
  4. Future aging problems- the immigrants and/or the current citizenry
  5. The stress that could be put on social programs
  • keeping the door open to migrants will threaten the very things that make ( the country) special.
  • People more like the inhabitants are more desirable because they will be able to assimilate better into (the country’s ) culture and society
  • Higher levels of immigration are perceived to put pressure on other areas in society, such that people may feel worse off
  • immigration system is open to abuse by unscrupulous parties (like employers)
  • concerns about job and wage competition from foreigners -
  • migrants take jobs away from ( The Country’s) inhabitants

My source doument where these concerns came from is based on a 2017 New Zealand study.

THE NEW NEW ZEALANDERS - WHY MIGRANTS MAKE GOOD KIWIS
.


Above Are Excuses By Losers 

 

Happy Content People - Do Not Worry About Immigration

 

People Who Have Hope & Opportuntity - Do Not Worry About Immigration 

 

People Who Can See A Bright Future For Themselves and the People They Care About - Do Not Worry About Immigration 

 

People Who Feel Like They Aren't Treated Differently Because of Their Economic Class - Education - Religion - Race ...........Do Not Worry About Immigration 

 

Rich People - Do Not Worry About Immigration

 

Poor People With No Hope Look Around For Others To Blame

 

Powerful People With a Agenda Encourage the Poor & Powerless To Look Around For Other To Blame

 

When I went into the Military at Age 18 - I had a lot of prejudices a lot of bias towards specific races...................

 

During training some of this stuff was reinforced because although I didn't realize it at the time a lot of the people I thought I didn't like - didn't like me either & for the same ignorant reasons

 

After landing in Vietnam......................almost all of that went away & I started looking at people not based on looks or colors or language - but whether or not I thought I could trust them

 

It been that way ever since - I watched and listened to Trump and I don't Trust Him - it's that Simple!

 

I Like Immigrants - I Live Next Door To A Wonderful Hard Working Couple Who Moved Here From Portugal - The Husband Speaks Very Little English - Best Neighbors I Ever Had

 

My Wife and I traveled to St Barth Last Summer - all the Natives Speak French - We Made Some Great Friends & Keep In Touch on Facebook Weekly - They Come to the USA Frequently and Will Be Visiting Us - I'm Excited

 

I could go on with the Anecdotal Hit Parade but if it wasn't Immigrants - Sick Unhappy People Would Just Find Another Reason To Hate - Just Like They Always Have

 

When I was in High School I was Shocked to Learn People did not want to Vote for Kennedy because he was Catholic - I was a Catholic Back then and I could not understand it

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 36 of 39

Many years ago, I told my husband that Americans were tiring of listening For English push 1 and for Spanish push 2.

As a person that came to this country in 1961 raised 4 children in this county  has many times said in this message  board that the US in my view has failed in  dealing with the introduction to new immigrants and their ability to assimilate into this culture.

There is nothing that provides that education to new immigrants. they are mostly left to their own devices and most  or the older ones simply remain as they were when they arrived.

I was very lucky, as a child they sent me to school in the US and I knew the language very young in my life. and had live here long enough to understand the culture. Although I didn't live in the USA when it was time for me to come here for good the transition was easy.

We need to make this transition better, we need to educate these new immigrants the customs and the culture of the US. Especially the language.
We have made it so  easy for new immigrants to simply not learn anything about this country but what they care to learn by themselves.
And understand that yes, there is an American culture that new immigrants need to observe. as well as keeping their own. 

But we have in many ways, relaxes our rules, in our language, and in many other ways,

We now, produce  documents in other languages for things like driver's licences, and many legal documents. 

Is fine to eat tacos, or pizza or whatever other ethnic food we want, but also we need to emphasize the importance of apple pie.

This is my country, and I want to see immigrants but I want them to see respecting my language, and costumes as much as they expect me to respect theirs.

And not forge that if we came here we left our countries behind and need to learn new ways of adapting and assimilation into this country as an obligation of our decision to come here.

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 37 of 39

I like data myself. It calms “my” fears. Like flying on a plane is the safest way to travel. Data helps me. 

 

But I get what you are saying. I don’t know how to allay fears like that. I worry that people fear the country’s change to a majority of people of color stems from worrying minorities will eventually treat us the same way we’ve historically treated them.  The antitdote to that, IMO, is for everyone to recognize how critical it is we work to ensure constitutional rights for all. All ethnicities, all nationalities, all religions, all income levels. Make that goal the American goal. We will have much less to fear as we become the minority....

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Re: Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 38 of 39

Very good points, Gail. I agree that dismively telling people that their views are wrong without further explanation is fruitless. 

I look forward to reading your post and the article even more closely than my first overview.

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Truth Is In The Eye of the Beholder

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Message 39 of 39

So how do you change the minds of those who resent immigration because of what they might believe. 

 

We are told by the experts, these concerns have little bearing on reality (facts from experts) but I have always found that “Truth is in the eye of the beholder” meaning that what one perceives as true is subjective.

 

Trying to address myths and misperceptions about immigration only with data and analysis will likely fail without addressing the legitimate worries of people.  This isn't just about the USA - many of these concerns happen elsewhere too.  In fact, my source document came from elsewhere.

 

Seems to me the more push-back there is in telling them they are WRONG - the more they feel that their views are of no consequence and anger keeps building.  To me, this is exactly why populism has emerged in many recent elections - here and elsewhere. 

 

So how can these views be changed to stop not only the violence seemingly associated with them but also to create more harmony within a country or can they be changed?

 

Some of the views associated with this:

  • News of violent extremism committed by migrants in Western countries stokes fears among some that (the country) is risking importing terror through the immigration system.
  • Others fear that even without violent extremism, immigration may threaten (the country’s) social cohesion and ignite unrest, opening the door to unpredictable backlash.
  • Another concern is that increasing flows of people from overseas or another country dilutes national identity.
  • allowing people from significantly different cultures and ethnicities to migrate breaks up national identity - dilutes local cultures and societies
  1. concerns about immigration to the more general impacts of a larger population.problems- population growth especially if in a concentrated area
  2. migrants add pressure on the housing market,
  3. migrants put a strain on infrastructure including education and health care and more government spending
  4. Future aging problems- the immigrants and/or the current citizenry
  5. The stress that could be put on social programs
  • keeping the door open to migrants will threaten the very things that make ( the country) special.
  • People more like the inhabitants are more desirable because they will be able to assimilate better into (the country’s ) culture and society
  • Higher levels of immigration are perceived to put pressure on other areas in society, such that people may feel worse off
  • immigration system is open to abuse by unscrupulous parties (like employers)
  • concerns about job and wage competition from foreigners -
  • migrants take jobs away from ( The Country’s) inhabitants

My source doument where these concerns came from is based on a 2017 New Zealand study.

THE NEW NEW ZEALANDERS - WHY MIGRANTS MAKE GOOD KIWIS
.

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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