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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 1 of 31

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


Even better, the developing world has previously ALWAYS powered their economies with COAL, BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAP AND EASY. Now Americans are in a position to sell THE WORLD better, cheaper CLEAN ENERGY SOURCES, but it will take some support by our Government to get this rolling.

 

That support will NEVER come from a Republican.

 

So the future of Civilization DEPENDS on removing Republicans from elected office so we can go into developing countries and HELP THEM create a modern clean power system.

 

Electing Republicans who only want to enter poor countries to kill their people and steal their Oil is no longer a viable option.


Utilities always use the cheapest form of generation (fuel cost, maintenance, waste disposal) and have a mix based on cost, availability of fuel, and regulations. If a solar farm is the least cost for a utility, it's used - that simple. Same thing for wind power or nuclear. When government gets involved, the dynamics all change forcing a solution that is not cheap, not best for their customers, and bad for investors.

 

Republicans have nothing to do with these decisions except Democrats want to MANDATE the type of power used based on liberal agenda instead of what's cheapest.


Republicans have EVERYTHING to do with those decisions because THEY decided to put Big Carbon profits ahead of the Nation's best interest and all because it was the winner of the 2000 election Al Gore who sounded the alarm.

 

The Government has ALWAYS been in front of every major shift in our economy - GOVERNMEN grants built the system of canals that moved produce from the frontieer to the urban centers and manufactured goods from the factories to the farms.

GOVERNMENT land grants made the National Rail System possible.

GOVERNMENT funded research gave us jet aircraft and microchips.

GOVERNMENT money built the Interstate Highways.

GOVERNMENT money electrifiedrural America

 

And it will be GOVERNMENT that provides the incentives to keep our nation fed and habitable - NO private enterprise has even suggested they'd like to take that on.

 

neoRepublicans only want progress that increases profits for EXISTING industries that contribute so lavishly to their elections. Therefore for the survival of the nation, neoRepublicans MUST REFORM OR GO.


Wakey, wakey Scout.  In the U.S. ALL utilities are investor owned utilities working for the company (which means the stockholders). Probably most investors are Republican but the company officers are insuring the least cost. The companies are not run by the Republican party!

 

You are thinking of your dream country - Venezuela.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 2 of 31

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


Even better, the developing world has previously ALWAYS powered their economies with COAL, BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAP AND EASY. Now Americans are in a position to sell THE WORLD better, cheaper CLEAN ENERGY SOURCES, but it will take some support by our Government to get this rolling.

 

That support will NEVER come from a Republican.

 

So the future of Civilization DEPENDS on removing Republicans from elected office so we can go into developing countries and HELP THEM create a modern clean power system.

 

Electing Republicans who only want to enter poor countries to kill their people and steal their Oil is no longer a viable option.


Utilities always use the cheapest form of generation (fuel cost, maintenance, waste disposal) and have a mix based on cost, availability of fuel, and regulations. If a solar farm is the least cost for a utility, it's used - that simple. Same thing for wind power or nuclear. When government gets involved, the dynamics all change forcing a solution that is not cheap, not best for their customers, and bad for investors.

 

Republicans have nothing to do with these decisions except Democrats want to MANDATE the type of power used based on liberal agenda instead of what's cheapest.


Republicans have EVERYTHING to do with those decisions because THEY decided to put Big Carbon profits ahead of the Nation's best interest and all because it was the winner of the 2000 election Al Gore who sounded the alarm.

 

The Government has ALWAYS been in front of every major shift in our economy - GOVERNMEN grants built the system of canals that moved produce from the frontieer to the urban centers and manufactured goods from the factories to the farms.

GOVERNMENT land grants made the National Rail System possible.

GOVERNMENT funded research gave us jet aircraft and microchips.

GOVERNMENT money built the Interstate Highways.

GOVERNMENT money electrifiedrural America

 

And it will be GOVERNMENT that provides the incentives to keep our nation fed and habitable - NO private enterprise has even suggested they'd like to take that on.

 

neoRepublicans only want progress that increases profits for EXISTING industries that contribute so lavishly to their elections. Therefore for the survival of the nation, neoRepublicans MUST REFORM OR GO.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 3 of 31

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@gordyfl wrote:

It's Now Cheaper to Build a New Wind Farm than to Keep a Coal Plant Running


The Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) per megawatt.

 

$27 and $45 for coal.


$29 to $56 for a wind farm.


$31 to $44 for a solar farm, depending on the technology used.

 

"There are some scenarios where it is cheaper to build and operate wind and solar than keep a coal plant running."


Wind power costs have dropped as utilities have turned to bigger and bigger turbines, which can produce more energy. The largest turbines installed today can produce double the power they could've a decade ago, according to the Energy Information Administration, dramatically increasing the amount of power a parcel of land can produce. Wind and solar installation has also gotten more competitive, driving the development of more efficient technology.


Congress and the President must implement policies that help us move forward - not backward.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/its-now-cheaper-to-build-a-new-wind-farm-than-to-keep-a-coal-plant-runn...


Even better, the developing world has previously ALWAYS powered their economies with COAL, BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAP AND EASY. Now Americans are in a position to sell THE WORLD better, cheaper CLEAN ENERGY SOURCES, but it will take some support by our Government to get this rolling.

 

That support will NEVER come from a Republican.

 

So the future of Civilization DEPENDS on removing Republicans from elected office so we can go into developing countries and HELP THEM create a modern clean power system.

 

Electing Republicans who only want to enter poor countries to kill their people and steal their Oil is no longer a viable option.


Utilities always use the cheapest form of generation (fuel cost, maintenance, waste disposal) and have a mix based on cost, availability of fuel, and regulations. If a solar farm is the least cost for a utility, it's used - that simple. Same thing for wind power or nuclear. When government gets involved, the dynamics all change forcing a solution that is not cheap, not best for their customers, and bad for investors.

 

Republicans have nothing to do with these decisions except Democrats want to MANDATE the type of power used based on liberal agenda instead of what's cheapest.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 4 of 31

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Tom5678 wrote:
I think some Republicans KNOW that climate change is real, but they are so completely addicted to big oil money, they cannot stop the addiction. The rest of the GOP are either in denial or since they are told what to think about climate change by their news source Faux News, they simply fall in line without questioning anything.

I think you are partially right! Most Republicans know that the burning of fossil fuels creates CO2 which is a greenhouse gas thus giving warming to the climate. The degree of warming that this brings is questionable to all but the most brainwashed. Republicans don't know if people freeze all winter and fry all summer while stop buying cars, lawnmowers, etc will do anything significant to "improve the climate" (whatever that means).

 

Further, Democrats that want to create "carbon taxes" to waste on other government programs or give away to other countries is unacceptable to Republicans.

 

So, the way I see it, try on, without assistance from Republicans!


Where did you get the idea that there was any question about the degree of warming caused by man made pollution? The science is pretty clear on this point and there has never been a single study which refutes it. I'd ask you to quote such a study but I am beginning to find the sound of crickets boring. 

 

The carbon taxes you mention were proposed by the Republicans as a way of using the free enterprise system to curb carbon emissions. When their big dollar donors protested, the Republicans backed away. Now that Exxon- Mobile say climate change is real, isn't your unsupported position just a bit "out there"?

 

It seems that most programs which improve the lives of Americans are passed without the help of Republicans.  Fortunately, every inch of sea level rise and every massive forest fire brings more opponents to the Republican "denier" platform. 

 

 


Right you are Richva - but at least the GOPerLords have begun to clean up their act - now NOT is repeating their line that the carbon tax revenue will be sent to "other countries" where before he always said "AFRICA".

 

Its possible the GOPers in Dixie will realize it's THEIR STATES that will be devistated by the rising temperature and sea levels and act to save themselves before its too late. But alas, they've been programmed from birth to vote for whoever will harm people of color the most, so the rest of us are going to have to make sure no Republicans will be making National policy after January 2021.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 5 of 31


@gordyfl wrote:

It's Now Cheaper to Build a New Wind Farm than to Keep a Coal Plant Running


The Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) per megawatt.

 

$27 and $45 for coal.


$29 to $56 for a wind farm.


$31 to $44 for a solar farm, depending on the technology used.

 

"There are some scenarios where it is cheaper to build and operate wind and solar than keep a coal plant running."


Wind power costs have dropped as utilities have turned to bigger and bigger turbines, which can produce more energy. The largest turbines installed today can produce double the power they could've a decade ago, according to the Energy Information Administration, dramatically increasing the amount of power a parcel of land can produce. Wind and solar installation has also gotten more competitive, driving the development of more efficient technology.


Congress and the President must implement policies that help us move forward - not backward.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/its-now-cheaper-to-build-a-new-wind-farm-than-to-keep-a-coal-plant-runn...


Even better, the developing world has previously ALWAYS powered their economies with COAL, BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAP AND EASY. Now Americans are in a position to sell THE WORLD better, cheaper CLEAN ENERGY SOURCES, but it will take some support by our Government to get this rolling.

 

That support will NEVER come from a Republican.

 

So the future of Civilization DEPENDS on removing Republicans from elected office so we can go into developing countries and HELP THEM create a modern clean power system.

 

Electing Republicans who only want to enter poor countries to kill their people and steal their Oil is no longer a viable option.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 6 of 31

not for deniers unfortunately, Rich.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 7 of 31

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

You and the rest of the left are on energy welfare as well as other types of welfare so don't lecture me on welfare since the left is the welfare queen. If you were knowledgeable on science, I would waste my time conversing scientifically, but you're NOT!


OK.  Let's get back to science. While there have been hundreds of studies by major scientific organizations and universities, they have all concluded that the current rate of climate change is man made and must be reversed soon or it may not be releasable.  There has not been one scientific study done that casts any doubt on those findings. 

 

IS THAT SCIENTIFIC ENOUGH FOR YOU?? 

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 8 of 31

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:


So you do realize that by not paying the real cost of the energy you are consuming you are in fact one of the "takers" that you rail against?  By insisting on having the Government subsidise your energy usage, you are simply passing a bill (and a much higher bill) to people in the future.  Sounds pretty selfish and non-conservative to me. 

Some of the REAL Republicans actually believe in Science.  Republicans used to be the more educated party.  Now Republicans elect Representatives who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, evolution is nonsense, conspiracy theories are real and Science is bad. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-05-10/political-winds-not-science-sway-conse...


Republicans are STILL the more educated party and believers in science, proven by your post!


WOW! What a useful discussion.  Your entire scientific expertise seems to be summed up by the same idiotic logic that Anthony Watts uses that it is simply not happening (where have I heard that before?)

So you believe somebody like Greg Gianforte, recently reelected and endorsed by Trump, should be a leader considering he doesn't have the temperament and is a young earth creationist?

How about you, do you believe in evolution, or is that a "scientific hoax".

As I stated earlier, the Republicans used to be the party of education.  Now, they appear to be a party of uneducated individuals who think they are smarter than people who are experts in their fields.

I notice you didn't bother to comment on how it feels to be on "energy welfare" where you will be expecting others to foot the bills that you are running up.  Who is going to be responsible for rebuilding infrastructure, protecting coastal cities, moving and relocating coastal cities that are too costly to protect, moving farmlands, etc?

Since you never bother to have a real scientific discussion, I am not holding my breath that your response will be anything more substantive than "I know I am right and no facts can prove otherwise".


You and the rest of the left are on energy welfare as well as other types of welfare so don't lecture me on welfare since the left is the welfare queen. If you were knowledgeable on science, I would waste my time conversing scientifically, but you're NOT!


I have never seen you actually have the ability to discuss science.  If you have any studies you wish to discuss regarding climate change, feel free to post them.

 

I am not on the left, I am just not an alt-right drone.

 

I have probably paid and continue to pay more taxes than you do and that is my point.  I DO NOT want to have to pay for your energy use in the future.  I believe everybody should be paying their own way.  By your refusal to pay your own way you are on "energy welfare" that somebody like me will have to pay for.


I pay more taxes than you earn so don't drone on about taxes, and you most definitely are from the left of the left.  I have no need to post sources to you or any other leftist.


How could you possibly know how much in taxes I have paid?  I have been well into the highest tax brackets since I was 22. 

Only in the alt-right world is believing in science "leftist".  Most educated people would consider that normal and use that information to make informed decisions.

You can't post sources because they are either so weak that they are easy to refute, or you don't have them.  I think I have offered to discuss science with you in the past and you continually refuse.  So what are you trying to hide?

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 9 of 31

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:


So you do realize that by not paying the real cost of the energy you are consuming you are in fact one of the "takers" that you rail against?  By insisting on having the Government subsidise your energy usage, you are simply passing a bill (and a much higher bill) to people in the future.  Sounds pretty selfish and non-conservative to me. 

Some of the REAL Republicans actually believe in Science.  Republicans used to be the more educated party.  Now Republicans elect Representatives who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, evolution is nonsense, conspiracy theories are real and Science is bad. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-05-10/political-winds-not-science-sway-conse...


Republicans are STILL the more educated party and believers in science, proven by your post!


WOW! What a useful discussion.  Your entire scientific expertise seems to be summed up by the same idiotic logic that Anthony Watts uses that it is simply not happening (where have I heard that before?)

So you believe somebody like Greg Gianforte, recently reelected and endorsed by Trump, should be a leader considering he doesn't have the temperament and is a young earth creationist?

How about you, do you believe in evolution, or is that a "scientific hoax".

As I stated earlier, the Republicans used to be the party of education.  Now, they appear to be a party of uneducated individuals who think they are smarter than people who are experts in their fields.

I notice you didn't bother to comment on how it feels to be on "energy welfare" where you will be expecting others to foot the bills that you are running up.  Who is going to be responsible for rebuilding infrastructure, protecting coastal cities, moving and relocating coastal cities that are too costly to protect, moving farmlands, etc?

Since you never bother to have a real scientific discussion, I am not holding my breath that your response will be anything more substantive than "I know I am right and no facts can prove otherwise".


You and the rest of the left are on energy welfare as well as other types of welfare so don't lecture me on welfare since the left is the welfare queen. If you were knowledgeable on science, I would waste my time conversing scientifically, but you're NOT!


I have never seen you actually have the ability to discuss science.  If you have any studies you wish to discuss regarding climate change, feel free to post them.

 

I am not on the left, I am just not an alt-right drone.

 

I have probably paid and continue to pay more taxes than you do and that is my point.  I DO NOT want to have to pay for your energy use in the future.  I believe everybody should be paying their own way.  By your refusal to pay your own way you are on "energy welfare" that somebody like me will have to pay for.


I pay more taxes than you earn so don't drone on about taxes, and you most definitely are from the left of the left.  I have no need to post sources to you or any other leftist.

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Re: Trump's dire climate report hands ammunition to Democrats

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Message 10 of 31

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:


So you do realize that by not paying the real cost of the energy you are consuming you are in fact one of the "takers" that you rail against?  By insisting on having the Government subsidise your energy usage, you are simply passing a bill (and a much higher bill) to people in the future.  Sounds pretty selfish and non-conservative to me. 

Some of the REAL Republicans actually believe in Science.  Republicans used to be the more educated party.  Now Republicans elect Representatives who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, evolution is nonsense, conspiracy theories are real and Science is bad. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-05-10/political-winds-not-science-sway-conse...


Republicans are STILL the more educated party and believers in science, proven by your post!


WOW! What a useful discussion.  Your entire scientific expertise seems to be summed up by the same idiotic logic that Anthony Watts uses that it is simply not happening (where have I heard that before?)

So you believe somebody like Greg Gianforte, recently reelected and endorsed by Trump, should be a leader considering he doesn't have the temperament and is a young earth creationist?

How about you, do you believe in evolution, or is that a "scientific hoax".

As I stated earlier, the Republicans used to be the party of education.  Now, they appear to be a party of uneducated individuals who think they are smarter than people who are experts in their fields.

I notice you didn't bother to comment on how it feels to be on "energy welfare" where you will be expecting others to foot the bills that you are running up.  Who is going to be responsible for rebuilding infrastructure, protecting coastal cities, moving and relocating coastal cities that are too costly to protect, moving farmlands, etc?

Since you never bother to have a real scientific discussion, I am not holding my breath that your response will be anything more substantive than "I know I am right and no facts can prove otherwise".


You and the rest of the left are on energy welfare as well as other types of welfare so don't lecture me on welfare since the left is the welfare queen. If you were knowledgeable on science, I would waste my time conversing scientifically, but you're NOT!


I have never seen you actually have the ability to discuss science.  If you have any studies you wish to discuss regarding climate change, feel free to post them.

 

I am not on the left, I am just not an alt-right drone.

 

I have probably paid and continue to pay more taxes than you do and that is my point.  I DO NOT want to have to pay for your energy use in the future.  I believe everybody should be paying their own way.  By your refusal to pay your own way you are on "energy welfare" that somebody like me will have to pay for.

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