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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 81 of 107

Example - if a person comes to a border crossing with  child asking for asylum, they are not separated. But if, instead, they cross illegally, possibly employing a  "coyote" to smuggle them in, different rules apply

Repuiblicans would like people to believe that, but its another lie. Before Trump, when a FAMILY was discovered to have entered the country illegally, and they requested political asylum, the entire family was released until a hearing could be held to rule on their asylum request.

 

With Der Trumper jack-booting onto the scene, now whenever a family is encountered, at the border or over it, the parents are detained as criminal felons and, since the law says you cannot hold children with felons, the kids are taken away to wherever without even telling the parents its happening.

 

Same rules, just Republicans now determine the parents are felons before they have a day in court, and the kids are ripped from their mother's arms. Simply reclassifying the parents as having committed a misdemeanor would solve the humanitarian disgrace, but then Republicans could not persecute non-white poor people with the gut-wrenching terror they now inflect and it wouldn't be nearly as much fun for them.

 

The number of illegals added to the GOPer's underpaid workforce was not significantly altered by those seeking asylum, a group that has always been a small fraction of those coming for the good jobs promised by Republicans, and protected by Republicans, so long as the workers didn't complain about their pay or treatment.

 

Even Reagan understood that if you don't want a lot of illegal immigrants coming to America for jobs, you simply begin arresting and jailing the ones who provide the jobs, but instead the Republicans of today much prefer reveling in the agony of the mothers as their infants are snatched away by employees of the United States Government. It this is not the real reason they do it, why do they keep doing it? Nothing else can explain their actions, nothing.

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 82 of 107

@williamb39198 wrote:

@angeleyes64

As per your comments, trump just keeps lowering and lowering the bar for lying, moral behavior, blaming others for his actions, and any compassion whatsoever.

And it sounds like many are crossing the border because they are not being processed at entry points. But yet how much effort is being put into separating families and incarcerating

kids and parents? Why not put that effort into processing those at the entry points and keeping families together. 

What much wasted effort and money is being put into a terrible policy which is not a law?

 

trump strikes again


Awww, but it is the law.  I repeat:

 

For a long time I've said that the liberal elite rely almost strictly on spin, innuendo, half-truths and lies and all the little liberals who are too stupid to think for themselves just blindly repeat what they say.  In fact, I imagine the elite just sitting around a table throwing out their ideas and asking each other, "Do you think they're really stupid enough to repeat that?"  The "Trump policy of separating families" is a great example. 

 

All you liberals out there, can you tell me what that policy is?  Because it doesn't really exist.  At least not the way it's being represented.  The law requires children to be separated from their parent when the parent is apprehended by the law.  The actual Trump "policy" that is causing children to be separated from their parents is his "policy" of enforcing the law. 

 

Of course, like everything else, liberals only believe a law should be enforced if it benefits them and they happen to like it.  Which means this is an opportunity to try a little experiment.  I've also said for a long time that liberals don't understand or believe in fair play or right and wrong.  So, if you don't like the immigrations laws being enforced and want me to support that, just agree to support not enforcing a law I that I don't like.  Can you do that, 'cause I certainly have a couple in mind?

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 83 of 107

@angeleyes64

As per your comments, trump just keeps lowering and lowering the bar for lying, moral behavior, blaming others for his actions, and any compassion whatsoever.

And it sounds like many are crossing the border because they are not being processed at entry points. But yet how much effort is being put into separating families and incarcerating

kids and parents? Why not put that effort into processing those at the entry points and keeping families together. 

What much wasted effort and money is being put into a terrible policy which is not a law?

And are we not closing sites in Mexico and Central America where people can pre apply for asylum?

 

trump strikes again

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 84 of 107

@rker321 wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:


rk9152 is correct - asking for asylum has to take place at an authorized border crossing.  Trying to come in at some other location puts suspicion on whomever it is because this is how child smugglers come in.  It is also very dangerous to get entry this way - the very foundation of our immigration laws is to have legally defined access places where everybody is checked and asked for what purpose they arrive.  

 

If they want to ask for asylum and the family kept together, all they have to do is present themselves at an authorized border crossing for the process to begin.  By crossing at an illegal point, there are other steps that have to be completed because the action is suspicious.


Gail  I hate to say that you are being childish in your statement. but I am afraid I do.Most of the children that are being separated are children of people that are requesting asylum at the time of entry. 

Look I went thru similar situation and at the time of entry inside the US  I had to deal with the asylum decision. not before I came into the uS

They should have put all of those families in bit tent cities, and then processes them to see which one really qualified for asylum.
now it seem to me that they are realizing the boo boo that they have done and are trying to see how they can come out of all of this smelling like a rose.


I am gonna assume that you entered this country seeking asylum at a legal port of entry.  That is the difference her - Cuban could enter via asylum seeking or refugee seeking.  They met the definition of either.  However, those who did cross in a boat to an unauthorized port of entry faced many of the same things these immigrants face now - they had to be scrutinized as to who they were in some retention facility.

 

Pretty sure this definition has been on the books for a very long time -

USCIS.gov - Refugee & Asylum

 

Refugee status or asylum may be granted to people who have been persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, and/or membership in a particular social group or political opinion. 

Refugees

Refugee status is a form of protection that may be granted to people who meet the definition of refugee and who are of special humanitarian concern to the United States. Refugees are generally people outside of their country who are unable or unwilling to return home because they fear serious harm. For a legal definition of refugee, see section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

You may seek a referral for refugee status only from outside of the United States. For more information about refugees, see the  “Refugees” section.

Asylum

Asylum status is a form of protection available to people who:

  • Meet the definition of refugee
  • Are already in the United States
  • Are seeking admission at a port of entry

You may apply for asylum in the United States regardless of your country of origin or your current immigration status. For more information about asylum status, see the “Asylum

section.

 

Think you might find this very interesting:

Huffington Post 04.25.2017 - Bill Clinton and Barack Obama Laid the Groundwork for Trumps Immigratio...

 

. . . . there was another new catch-22 category as well: so-called immigration crimes. Those with a record of illegal re-entry and those who engaged in what was termed “immigration fraud” were automatically re-categorized as “criminals” under President Obama’s priority enforcement policy.  “Illegal reentry” is, in fact, the most curious of crimes, since it distinguishes between those who succeed in entering the country without inspection on their first try and those who are caught and only succeed on a subsequent try. 

 

So you see, when someone or a family of someones cross the border at an inappropriate place, they are not actually seeking asylum because they are required to cross at a port of entry so that they can be checked out and request asylum -

 

from the Huffinton Post linked above:

What earned President Obama the moniker of “deporter-in-chief,” however, was his policy towards border enforcement, since it was there that the number of deportees rose most sharply.  This was in part because he prioritized “recent border crossers” for deportation; everyone, that is, who had crossed without authorization, which essentially meant everyone apprehended in the border region, was now criminalized.  Under previous administrations, most of those caught there had been granted what was called “voluntary departure.”  In other words, they were returned to the Mexican side of the border without legal sanction.  During the Clinton and Bush administrations, more than a million people a year were returned to Mexico in this manner without being transformed into criminals and so were not included in the usual deportation figures.

 

So when a family is picked up crossing illegally into the country - we do not know who they are.  We do not know even if these are their children without further investigating them.

 

It would seem that just sending them back all together like was done previously - I believe they do ask them - but that would also criminalize their entry where they could not come back at a port of enty asking for asylum as was done previously. 

 

n the Obama years, those apprehended at the border began to be formally charged and fingerprinted before being issued a deportation order.  In this way, they were redefined as “criminals,” and if they were caught attempting a second border crossing, as criminal “repeat immigration offenders.”  . . . .

 

. . . . Soon enough, immigration crimes came to rival drug crimes in the federal court system.  

 

. . . . Finally, one aspect of immigration enforcement under the Obama administration generally goes unmentioned: the president’s role in pressuring Mexico into collaborating by arresting and deporting Central Americans heading north (including families and unaccompanied children) before they reached the border with the United States.  In 2014, under growing pressure from Washington, the Mexican government implemented the Southern Border Program.  While U.S. law was being repeatedly updated to provide humanitarian treatment to families and children apprehended at the border, when the Mexicans got to them first, they simply deported them.

 

In 2014, only 3% of the minors apprehended in the U.S. were deported; in Mexico, the figure was 77%, or 18,269.  As one report summed up the situation: “The United States is outsourcing its border enforcement to Mexico.”  As in the United States, so Mexico’s increasing militarization and repression on its southern border did not actually slow the flow of migrants. It merely made the voyage far more dangerous, while giving ever more power to smugglers and gangs that now prey upon Central American migrants desperately trying to evade Mexican border controls.

 

more info -

Huffington Post - The Blog - 06.15.2015 - Drug Cartels: Where Human Trafficking and Human Smuggling ...

Mexican drug cartels have identified a lucrative niche of opportunity in the geostrategic position of Mexico as “bridge country” for migration flows towards the U.S., and are now actively exploiting it. These organizations have vigorously seized the human smuggling activities in the southern and northern borders of Mexico, and have transformed them into diverse forms of trafficking and exploitation. Every year thousands of Central Americans fall prey to drug cartels while crossing the southern border of Mexico.  Some of the immigrants are forced to beg for money on the streets, while others are found in this position after being extorted and deprived from their resources to cross the border. In this dramatic scenario, the increase in trafficking of immigrant children who are captured by the cartels for sexual exploitation, forced labor or used as child soldiers in the drug wars in the country becomes particularly worrisome. 

 

. . . . the growing control of cartels over human trafficking is expected to generate an increase in the frequency, reach, and impact of this criminal activity in Mexico in the next decade. In this scenario, undocumented Central American immigrants become increasingly vulnerable targets.

 

Every year, less immigrants achieve their goal of being smuggled into the U.S as they more often fall prey of the growing network of exploitation ran by drug cartels in Mexico. The decrease in undocumented immigrants trying to cross the border should not be assumed as a triumph of security policies, but further analyzed as a comprehensive phenomenon that is nourishing a growing threat to the stability of both Mexico and the United States: drug cartels.

 

So, you see, rker321, although the current policy of separating the children from those who cross the border at those unauthorized places has a farreaching purpose - we have to make sure that these are their children and not just human trafficking.

 

Would it be better if Mexico stopped them and retained them in camps on their side of the border until their situation is actually known?  In that way, they could enter at the proper places and request asylum once it is known who they are and if they belong together and now just some human trafficking ploy..

 

But do they really meet the definition of asylum seekers (resd the definition)?  Seems to me, their country(ies) of origin needs to step up their law enforcement on the Cartel and the gangs wreaking havoc in their homeland.

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 85 of 107

@rker321 wrote:


Gail  I hate to say that you are being childish in your statement. but I am afraid I do.Most of the children that are being separated are children of people that are requesting asylum at the time of entry. 

Look I went thru similar situation and at the time of entry inside the US  I had to deal with the asylum decision. not before I came into the uS

 


But then again didn't you arrive on a commercial airliner?  And wasn't that decades ago?  And on a visa?  That's what you have said on previous posts?  And wasn't Cubans given special entry privileges?  i.e. Wet foot, dry foot. 

 

Further haven't you posted that you came from an upper class family and your father some sort of prominent doctor?  This makes a difference in having to wait.

 

And are you sure about those being separated at the point of entry?  I would believe that those at the point of entry requested asylum before being admitted.  They had to wait for approval. 

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 86 of 107

For a long time I've said that the liberal elite rely almost strictly on spin, innuendo, half-truths and lies and all the little liberals who are too stupid to think for themselves just blindly repeat what they say.  In fact, I imagine the elite just sitting around a table throwing out their ideas and asking each other, "Do you think they're really stupid enough to repeat that?"  The "Trump policy of separating families" is a great example. 

 

All you liberals out there, can you tell me what that policy is?  Because it doesn't really exist.  At least not the way it's being represented.  The law requires children to be separated from their parent when the parent is apprehended by the law.  The actual Trump "policy" that is causing children to be separated from their parents is his "policy" of enforcing the law. 

 

Of course, like everything else, liberals only believe a law should be enforced if it benefits them and they happen to like it.  Which means this is an opportunity to try a little experiment.  I've also said for a long time that liberals don't understand or believe in fair play or right and wrong.  So, if you don't like the immigrations laws being enforced and want me to support that, just agree to support not enforcing a law I that I don't like.  Can you do that, 'cause I certainly have a couple in mind?

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 87 of 107
Traumatizing these families is good for them, makes them tough, and it's good for America too, shows them Mexicans ( or where ever it is they come from ) that we're strong and we mean business.

Oh LORD I can't believe I just read this.
What ever your opinion is in reference to the families being separated this is an absolute ridiculous statement. Show them we are strong. REALLY!!
All we show them is how cold and heartless we are towards family and children. This does not make them tough, rather hateful towards ALL Americans, a Country everyone use to love and look up to.

Maybe for 1 day The Donald should have his 5 dear little Trumpsters taken from him and let him see how it feels, he has no compassion for anyone. I really in my heart hope GOD is watching this heartless blame everyone else for what I do lier.

I hope his karma after all is said and done is that Melania has the sense and guts to leave this total, gutless, heartless, womanizing, lying dirtball when he is NO LONGER what he thinks is being President. The biggest fish of all in the Swamp!!
Live For Today, No One is Guaranteed a TOMORROW !
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 88 of 107

@rker321 wrote:


now it seem to me that they are realizing the boo boo that they have done and are trying to see how they can come out of all of this smelling like a rose.


You just hit the nail on the head. Practically everybody and their brother, even Kellyanne Conway for crying out loud, is critical of the policy of separating families, and now the Trump admin wants to save face by first denying, and then you can bet by just quietly scrapping the policy.

 

If Trump ever holds another press conference (anyone remember when it was bad that Hillary didn't have one) perhaps he'll answer why he ever though this was a good idea to begin with.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/trumps-last-press-conference/2140/

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (11 pages of lies and growing)
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 89 of 107

@GailL1 wrote:


rk9152 is correct - asking for asylum has to take place at an authorized border crossing.  Trying to come in at some other location puts suspicion on whomever it is because this is how child smugglers come in.  It is also very dangerous to get entry this way - the very foundation of our immigration laws is to have legally defined access places where everybody is checked and asked for what purpose they arrive.  

 

If they want to ask for asylum and the family kept together, all they have to do is present themselves at an authorized border crossing for the process to begin.  By crossing at an illegal point, there are other steps that have to be completed because the action is suspicious.


Gail  I hate to say that you are being childish in your statement. but I am afraid I do.Most of the children that are being separated are children of people that are requesting asylum at the time of entry. 

Look I went thru similar situation and at the time of entry inside the US  I had to deal with the asylum decision. not before I came into the uS

They should have put all of those families in bit tent cities, and then processes them to see which one really qualified for asylum.
now it seem to me that they are realizing the boo boo that they have done and are trying to see how they can come out of all of this smelling like a rose.

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 90 of 107

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

 

https://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/Texas-border-patrol-bath-separate-children-ICE-CBP...

 

 


I've already replied about this regarding that proper procedure is to request asylum at the point of entry.  And of course doesn't defense attorneys attempt to twist things to suit the people they are defending?  Just as your post is slanted to serve your partisan purpose?

 

 


Still didn't read the article, did 'ya. Unless, of course, you're also accusing the UT@Austin professor of "twist"ing things, too. Oh, wait, the professor isn't "defending" anyone in court, so what possible reason would they have for "twist"ing things?

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (11 pages of lies and growing)
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