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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 51 of 107

It is disgusting that anyone would choose to debate in favor children being taken away from their parents for a misdemeanor and being placed into 'tent camps'.

 

There simply should be no debate about this ...... it is appalling and should not happen. Nothing about this is 'making America great again'.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 52 of 107

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Sessions placed 11 adults in detention and stole their children because a non-violent MISDEMEANOR had been committed, and the Department of Justice has nothing better to do then persecute non-violent misdemeanors committed by poor people who are not white.

 

 


It was President Obama that changed this non-violent  misdemeanor, as you call it, into an immigration crime.  That policy is still active.

 

Huffington Post - Bill Clinton And Barack Obama Laid The Groundwork For Trump’s Immigration Policies...

 

Those with a record of illegal re-entry and those who engaged in what was termed “immigration fraud” were automatically re-categorized as “criminals” under President Obama’s priority enforcement policy.  “Illegal reentry” is, in fact, the most curious of crimes, since it distinguishes between those who succeed in entering the country without inspection on their first try and those who are caught and only succeed on a subsequent try.  

 

. . . . What earned President Obama the moniker of “deporter-in-chief,” however, was his policy towards border enforcement, since it was there that the number of deportees rose most sharply.  This was in part because he prioritized “recent border crossers” for deportation; everyone, that is, who had crossed without authorization, which essentially meant everyone apprehended in the border region, was now criminalized.  Under previous administrations, most of those caught there had been granted what was called “voluntary departure.”  In other words, they were returned to the Mexican side of the border without legal sanction.  During the Clinton and Bush administrations, more than a million people a year were returned to Mexico in this manner without being transformed into criminals and so were not included in the usual deportation figures.

 

read more at the link -

 

I didn't see where these (11) immigration criminals had any children.

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 53 of 107

@GailL1 wrote:

@rker321

 

I came back to add a bit more -

Where was the outrage when we had all those unaccompanied minors arriving in the US at our Southern Border - there were 52,000 of them in October 2014 - all of them detained until they had a hearing.  Same with these kids and the adult that brought them here.

 

 


There is no doubt that all this outrage is political posturing by the Democrats for the November mid-term elections.  Note that efforts to explain that the policy is that the proceedure is to present oneself at an entry station and request amnesty.  Families are not separated at that point.

 

But those like the eleven in the caravan that attempted to cross elsewhere were considered illegals, performing a criminal act.  Included was one who had previously been deported.  If there was children they would have been sent to a separate place of detainment.

 

Everyone of those attempting to speak against controlled immigration are completely ignoring the differences.  They refuse to acknowledge that without laws and enforcement, our borders would be open to terrorists, criminals, and others that no one would want around them.

 

I believe that these people should ask themselves how they would feel if someone just moved into their homes without permission.  Everyone so far has refused to answer that question.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 54 of 107

@rker321

 

I came back to add a bit more -

Where was the outrage when we had all those unaccompanied minors arriving in the US at our Southern Border - there were 52,000 of them in October 2014 - all of them detained until they had a hearing.  Same with these kids and the adult that brought them here.

 

One of the problem with sending the above kids or those who came with an adult recently and crossed into the country illegally, meaning not at a legal point of entry,  was a 2008 anti-human trafficking law signed by President George Bush which prevents the US from returning children who are not from Mexico or Canada to their home countries without a deportation hearing.

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 55 of 107

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

 


Still living in never never land. They were at a border crossing yesterday where it happened, and we have seen reports from a lot of news media. It happens. The caravan you spoke of came to  border crossing south of SD and notified our people of what they were going to do. The US border people told them they were backed up and it would take some time.


Gail's links to the Washington Post reads as follows:

 

 "Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Monday that the Justice Department has filed criminal charges against 11 suspected members of the caravan for illegally entering the country, including one who has been deported previously, according to a statement. While the main caravan group is waiting to enter through legal channels at the port of entry, the statement said these migrants got picked up crossing into the country illegally elsewhere along the border."

 

Apparently the rest of the caravan went through the legal process.

 

 



Two peas in a pod. You confirm what I said. They waited. Now you want to zero in on the few 11 and they are suspected. Well wait till their trial is over before you jump up and down.

I hope you watched Ret. AF General Michael Hayden on CNN this afternoon. He reviewed his weekend article in the DC Post. He uses a photo of a German Camp with the story. When asked why since we are no where near that stage now. He tells how it started the same way in Germany and his is an opening warning to all as to what path we are on. He was asked why no other Military Officers are sounding off. He said they are and gave about 10 names. The Gen was in the Intel business when in active service. I have been giving my warning for months now about the same thing and I welcome him and the others. I am sure they new before me, but were hopping and praying they were wrong about Dictator Trump, and now realize they were not, and Trump is being helped by the most dangerous group of people in the US. His enablers. Laura Bush tells us this is like the camps in the US during WW2 where we sent people who had come from Japan. On CNN this afternoon one of their Intel. people who is retired from US Intel agencies told us about the use the enablers say well they broke the law. He reminded all that the law is not always right, and needs to be broken and changed. When the country was formed a black person was only 1/2 a white person, At one time women could not vote, Native Americans were put in camps, blacks could attend schools with whites, etc. He said all of these laws were broke and changed which needed to happen now. Other experts say just think how the US looks to the rest of the world when it hurts children. We were the beacon of Liberty. Go watch all of them. It should do one of 2 things. Make a person leave being an enabler and become a defender of our values, or work harder to help Trump become our Hitler.

The Chief adviser to Trump for Congress was on and questioned on this subject. He had the talking points but really did not push to hard. He said what was happening was bad and needed to be changed by Congress. Pressed on having a fix for this problem he used the talking points weakly. He announced at the end he was leaving his post in the WH for private job. No one was surprised. Even he really could not stand what was happening. Go watch it on CNN, MsNBC, and other nightly news shows.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 56 of 107

rker321 -

I see a benefit of identifying these migrants that refuse to enter at legal points of entry.

I see benefit of making sure these are their children and they aren't just human trafficking.

I have read some horror stories and the extremes to which these human traffickers will go to get these people here. 

 

If these people with their children want to seek amnesty in this country, ALL they have to do is present themselves at a legal point of entry and begin the amnesty process.

 

It is the suspicion they arouse when they don't come into this country at legal points of entry to declare their amnesty intent - rather under some cloak of night way off the beaten path.  Since these folks were caught entering at illegal points - if they had not been caught, where would they be now, what would they be doing and what would be happening to these children - whether or not they belong to the person to which they arrived.

 

Huffington Post: Drug Cartels: Where Human Trafficking and Human Smuggling Meet today

 

Mexican drug cartels have identified a lucrative niche of opportunity in the geostrategic position of Mexico as “bridge country” for migration flows towards the U.S., and are now actively exploiting it. These organizations have vigorously seized the human smuggling activities in the southern and northern borders of Mexico, and have transformed them into diverse forms of trafficking and exploitation. Every year thousands of Central Americans fall prey to drug cartels while crossing the southern border of Mexico. The victims are frequently extorted, assaulted, and trafficked for forced labor and sexual exploitation within the country and in the United States.  . . . . In this context, the growing control of cartels over human trafficking is expected to generate an increase in the frequency, reach, and impact of this criminal activity in Mexico in the next decade. In this scenario, undocumented Central American immigrants become increasingly vulnerable targets.

 

Like I said - I guess we could just deport the whole family after identifying them and then the next time they might be caught, they would be a validated immigrant criminal ( under the Obama Immigration rule, which is still in effect) and then No amnesty for you.

 

All they have to do is seek entry into the country to seek asylum at a legal point of entry.

I do not think that is too much to ask for the hope of amnesty - Do YOU?

 

 

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 57 of 107
He will not answer why he thought it was a good idea, because he says it was the Democrats fault, not his. He will never take the blame for this.
Remember he never apologies and that would be like admitting it even without an apology.
Live For Today, No One is Guaranteed a TOMORROW !
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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 58 of 107

@rker321 wrote:

 The message has been sent we have a Presidnet that has no morals or standards, that apparently has created a group of followers that have in effect thrown away their morals and now are simply following what ihas been consieder not only non Christian but immoral. Gail they got to you too.?


 


A Houston TV station has a news segment where they verify and report on matters.  Tonight it was about crossing the border and amnesty.  The answer was that if the person presented themselves at a border crossing location and requested amnesty, family's wouldn't be detained and family's separated.  But if they were caught while crossing illegally elsewhere they would be charged as criminals and the children detained elsewhere.

 

The point was show up at legal border crossing and request amnesty.

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 59 of 107

@GailL1 wrote:

@Olderscout66

This is not something the Republicans have created all by themselves - It is a culmination of Immigration policies going all the way back to President Clinton - Sorry Gail this goes back all the way to Reagan and his policies of ammesty

 

Read the Huffington Post article that I keep linking on the policies of the Obama Administration.  That misdemeanor was elevated by President Obama -  The Obama and all the rest have a lot to blmae to go around. I don't excuse any of them

 

Each of these Presidents, including the current one, were/are just trying to stop a problem - a problem that has been with us for a very long time. There are ways and there are manners of doing thinks in life and this one is not the correct one. If the gola is to deter people to come here. it ain't working is creating a horrible image of this country. 

 

The separation of these kids from the parents who crossed into the country at an illegal location is just another way of sending a message to STOP CROSSING at illegal points. 

This is the same message President Obama was sending when he made this illegal crossing into a higher crime in his policy.

 The message has been sent we have a Presidnet that has no morals or standards, that apparently has created a group of followers that have in effect thrown away their morals and now are simply following what ihas been consieder not only non Christian but immoral. Gail they got to you too.?


 

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Re: Trump policy of separating families

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Message 60 of 107

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Tex - you just repeated what John said without mentioning the part where the folks who TRIED to follow the law were told to go away.

 

Sessions placed 11 adults in detention and stole their children because a non-violent MISDEMEANOR had been committed, and the Department of Justice has nothing better to do then persecute non-violent misdemeanors committed by poor people who are not white.

 


To the contrary, the rest of the group went through the legal proceedings.  Those 11 decided to take the back door by avoiding the legal point of entry.  They were detained and will have to face trial.  You can point out where children were involved here with a valid source?

 

The remark about Sessions wanting to change his name is irreverent to the discussion and is only rumor.

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