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Message 41 of 56

@jimc91 wrote:

Trump Isn’t Impeached Until the House Tells the Senate

According to the Constitution, impeachment is a process, not a vote. 

 

By:  Noah Feldman

 

Now that the House of Representatives has voted to impeach President Donald Trump, what is the constitutional status of the two articles of impeachment? Must they be transmitted to the Senate to trigger a trial, or could they be held back by the House until the Senate decides what the trial will look like, as Speaker Nancy Pelosi has hinted?

 
 

The Constitution doesn’t say how fast the articles must go to the Senate. Some modest delay is not inconsistent with the Constitution, or how both chambers usually work.

 
 

But an indefinite delay would pose a serious problem. Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial. Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial.

 
 

If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly impeached at all.

 
 

That’s because “impeachment” under the Constitution means the House sending its approved articles of to the Senate, with House managers standing up in the Senate and saying the president is impeached.

 

As for the headlines we saw after the House vote saying, “TRUMP IMPEACHED,” those are a media shorthand, not a technically correct legal statement. So far, the House has voted to impeach (future tense) Trump. He isn’t impeached (past tense) until the articles go to the Senate and the House members deliver the message.

 
 

Once the articles are sent, the Senate has a constitutional duty to hold a trial on the impeachment charges presented. Failure for the Senate to hold a trial after impeachment would deviate from the Constitution’s clear expectation.

 

For the House to vote “to impeach” without ever sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate for trial would also deviate from the constitutional protocol. It would mean that the president had not genuinely been impeached under the Constitution; and it would also deny the president the chance to defend himself in the Senate that the Constitution provides.

 

The relevant constitutional provisions are brief. Article I gives the House “the sole power of impeachment.” And it gives the Senate “the sole power to try all impeachments.” Article II says that the president “shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

 

Putting these three different provisions together yields the conclusion that the only way to remove the president while he is in office is if the House impeaches him and the Senate tries and convicts him.

The provisions say nothing about timing. Taken literally, they don’t directly say that articles of impeachment passed by the House must be sent to the Senate. But the framers’ definition of impeachment assumed that impeachment was a process, not just a House vote.

 

The framers drafted the constitutional provisions against the backdrop of impeachment as it had been practiced in England, where the House of Commons impeached and the House of Lords tried the impeachments. The whole point of impeachment by the Commons was for the charges of impeachment to be brought against the accused in the House of Lords.

 

Strictly speaking, “impeachment” occurred – and occurs -- when the articles of impeachment are presented to the Senate for trial. And at that point, the Senate is obliged by the Constitution to hold a trial.

 

What would make that trial fair is a separate question, one that deserves its own discussion. But we can say with some confidence that only the Senate is empowered to judge the fairness of its own trial – that’s what the “sole power to try all impeachments” means.

 

If the House votes to “impeach” but doesn’t send the articles to the Senate or send impeachment managers there to carry its message, it hasn’t directly violated the text of the Constitution. But the House would be acting against the implicit logic of the Constitution’s description of impeachment.

A president who has been genuinely impeached must constitutionally have the opportunity to defend himself before the Senate. That’s built into the constitutional logic of impeachment, which demands a trial before removal.

 

To be sure, if the House just never sends its articles of impeachment to the Senate, there can be no trial there. That’s what the “sole power to impeach” means. 

 

But if the House never sends the articles, then Trump could say with strong justification that he was never actually impeached. And that’s probably not the message Congressional Democrats are hoping to send.

 

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Yes, this was written by Noah Feldman, one of the dimms star witnesses during the sham one sided hearings.  

 

You can't make this stuff up, we still have a Constitution.  

 

This is hilarious and is another indicator Nancy has gone full nutter...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Donald J. Trump is the third U.S. President impeached by the House, Prof. Feldman's opinion notwithstanding. 

 

"The White House is considering making the case that Mr. Trump has not been impeached based on an opinion piece by Harvard Law Professor Noah Feldman on Bloomberg's opinion page Thursday. Feldman was one of the legal experts called by Democrats to testify before the House Judiciary Committee earlier this month and has advocated for Mr. Trump's impeachment and removal from office.

 

"Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial," Feldman wrote in Bloomberg. "Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial."

 

"If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn't actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn't truly impeached at all," Feldman wrote."

 

However, Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe wrote on Twitter that he disagreed with Feldman's analysis, saying that "under Art. I, Sec. 2, Clause 5, he was impeached on Dec 18, 2019. He will forever remain impeached. Period." That portion of the Constitution says that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

 

 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-donald-trump-impeached-white-house-considers-arguing-no-because-arti...

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Message 42 of 56

jimc91:   Surely you support law and order right? 

 

 

I love it when conservatives bean themselves with this one.

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Message 43 of 56

IMPOTUS is salivating to leave his black Sharpie mark on history?  When he and his Republican litter quit slobbering on the Speaker, Nancy will give them their treats.

 

(Duplicate posts on same topic require duplicate comments on same topic.)

 

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Message 44 of 56

@Tom5678 wrote:
Trump IS impeached. You can choose to be ignorant of the fact if you so choose, and it looks like you choose to do so. So be it.

That's not true, @Tom5678 ...  

 

Where are the articles of impeachment?  

 

There can be no trial that leads to any verdict without them being delivered to the Senate for trial.  It's just the way it is.

 

Surely you support law and order right? 

 

Remember no person is above the law...  

 

Equally important , no person is below the law either no matter how much that person is hated.  

 

 

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Message 45 of 56
Trump IS impeached. You can choose to be ignorant of the fact if you so choose, and it looks like you choose to do so. So be it.
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Message 46 of 56

jimc91:  Are you aware that a sitting president can not be indicted?

 

 

 

True, but that's only due to DOJ policy, it's not codified into law. It can be changed, and probably will after Trump.

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Message 47 of 56

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

@Olderscout66 , I think you just posted to the wrong thread...  Your post has nothing to do with this topic.

 

Are you aware that a sitting president can not be indicted?

 

 


Another victory for GOPers War on Education - If you are making a comparison of the Impeachment process to every other legal action -

 

You are the one that mentioned the indictment process in you previous post by writing:  

 

Their GOPerBase is so dense they think you're not indicted until a trial date is set, and the GOPerLords have got their Propaganda Ministry spinning this fantasy like a top.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

I think you are confused...

 

 

 

 

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Message 48 of 56

"Trump Isn’t Impeached Until the House Tells the Senate"

 

 

Nice try. I get it that Trump's lawyers are doing their best to wiggle him out of it so Trump can run around claiming he was never impeached, but it's not true. Try looking at the Constitution (article 1, section 2, clause 5).

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Message 49 of 56

@jimc91 wrote:

@Olderscout66 , I think you just posted to the wrong thread...  Your post has nothing to do with this topic.

 

Are you aware that a sitting president can not be indicted?

 

 


Another victory for GOPers War on Education - If you are making a comparison of the Impeachment process to every other legal action - all those NOT involving the POTUS - you perforce must use the language of all those other processes.

 

What the House did was serve as a very special Grand Jury, one that only examines the actions of a POTUS. What they DID when they (Congress) returned a verdict (decission) that sufficient evidence of criminal activity existed to require a TRIAL was to INDICT - but in this singular case the term is IMPEACH.

 

You've been told to imagine somehow the IMPEACHMENT requires setting a date for the trial when the real key is the REQUIREMENT that such a date be set and Trial be held, which is what has happened. There is no timelimit on how long the litigants debate the date and the current Republican obstruction does not vitiate the existance of the IMPEACHMENT.

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Message 50 of 56

@Olderscout66 , I think you just posted to the wrong thread...  Your post has nothing to do with this topic.

 

Are you aware that a sitting president can not be indicted?

 

 

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