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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 11 of 27

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


It was stupid to make it a quota system instead of changing disciplinary actions for all.  They don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Best practice are out there and readily accessible for anyone motivated enough to do so.  It sounds more like they wanted to fail so they could go back to the status quo. 


Changing disciplinary actions for all would not have dealt with the newspaper calling the disciplinary actions racist based the percentage of the population.

 

Look at it this way - if black kids are 17% of the population but "act up" 25% of the time, should they be disciplined 17% or 25%.


You are wrong. If you change from an old fashioned, authoritarian view of discipline (detention/suspension/resulting bad grades for poor behavior) to new methods such as restorative justice, and couple it with class systems like Responsive Classroom, doubled-up teachers in classrooms with fewer students, plus more counselors, you get an entirely different functional approach to classroom and school management. Disciplined kids will miss less school, fail fewer assignments, and learn to work on emotional regulation, meeting classroom expectations, and relationship repair. It takes knowledge, money, time, training, and personal commitment.  This is old hat in many private schools.  In this framework, even if black students break rules more often, the result is not harshly punitive. Instead, it recognizes the child for what s/he is. A child. Not fully developed, still needing guidance, on their way to becoming a productive adult. Kids are not uniform in their cognitive development based on age. Modern teaching recognizes this.  

 

But again, it takes knowledge, money, training, and commitment. Things many public school systems/tax payers fail to deliver on.  Commit to it in a half-assed way, get half-assed results.


Interesting thoughts for improved education but none addresses the topic - if black kids are 17% of the population but "act up" 25% of the time, should they be disciplined 17% or 25%.

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 12 of 27

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@H2Oh wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


 

It only "cuts both ways" if people are stupid. And that's a stupid way to deal with the problem from your School Board. Has nothing to do with whether or not we should be disciplining black kids more harshly. 

 

Do you prefer they return to the previous policy of doing just that? 

 

I prefer disciplining student based on their acts. however, when that was done, the newspaper item used only numbers (not actions) and accused the school system of racism.


You seem to forget or not mention that in the first place blacks were getting stiffer punishments for the same infractions as whites. Were you alright with that?


No. Nor am I for a racial quota factor in school discipline which the newspaper "Investigative report" I mentioned resulted in.

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 13 of 27

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


It was stupid to make it a quota system instead of changing disciplinary actions for all.  They don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Best practice are out there and readily accessible for anyone motivated enough to do so.  It sounds more like they wanted to fail so they could go back to the status quo. 


Changing disciplinary actions for all would not have dealt with the newspaper calling the disciplinary actions racist based the percentage of the population.

 

Look at it this way - if black kids are 17% of the population but "act up" 25% of the time, should they be disciplined 17% or 25%.


You are wrong. If you change from an old fashioned, authoritarian view of discipline (detention/suspension/resulting bad grades for poor behavior) to new methods such as restorative justice, and couple it with class systems like Responsive Classroom, doubled-up teachers in classrooms with fewer students, plus more counselors, you get an entirely different functional approach to classroom and school management. Disciplined kids will miss less school, fail fewer assignments, and learn to work on emotional regulation, meeting classroom expectations, and relationship repair. It takes knowledge, money, time, training, and personal commitment.  This is old hat in many private schools.  In this framework, even if black students break rules more often, the result is not harshly punitive. Instead, it recognizes the child for what s/he is. A child. Not fully developed, still needing guidance, on their way to becoming a productive adult. Kids are not uniform in their cognitive development based on age. Modern teaching recognizes this.  

 

But again, it takes knowledge, money, training, and commitment. Things many public school systems/tax payers fail to deliver on.  Commit to it in a half-assed way, get half-assed results.

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 14 of 27

Not Sure if it's been discussed

 

BUT

 

Devos is covertly - incorporating NRA Plan

 

DeVos gives quiet nod to arming teachers, despite hearing from many who disagree

 

Dozens of current or retired teachers, parents and education experts argued against the idea of arming teachers during a DOE "listening tour."

 

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration’s new school safety report, released Tuesday, encourages districts to consider arming school personnel, praises state programs that arm teachers and suggests that schools could use federal funds to train staff to use firearms. But the report does so quietly, after the idea of arming teachers faced fierce opposition, including during the Federal Commission on School Safety’s two-month “listening tour” in some of the nation’s reddest states.

 

The long-awaited report from the commission, chaired by Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, does not explicitly recommend that schools provide teachers with firearms, but lauds various state programs that arm teachers. Stressing the need for specially trained school personnel to respond to “acts of violence,” the commission commends divisive initiatives that allow teachers and other staff members to carry guns in South Dakota, Texas and Arkansas for offering “effective training programs,” according to the report.

 

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/devos-gives-quiet-nod-arming-teachers-despite-hearing-m...

 

 

 

An Education Department official, who asked not to be identified as he was not authorized to speak to the press, said the report was a clear endorsement of arming teachers.

“When the department provides information on best practices, it does so for schools to conduct those practices,” he said. “They are very direct about the idea of arming teachers, saying, ‘This is what you should do.’”

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 15 of 27

@rk9152 wrote:

@H2Oh wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


 

It only "cuts both ways" if people are stupid. And that's a stupid way to deal with the problem from your School Board. Has nothing to do with whether or not we should be disciplining black kids more harshly. 

 

Do you prefer they return to the previous policy of doing just that? 

 

I prefer disciplining student based on their acts. however, when that was done, the newspaper item used only numbers (not actions) and accused the school system of racism.


You seem to forget or not mention that in the first place blacks were getting stiffer punishments for the same infractions as whites. Were you alright with that?


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 16 of 27

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


It was stupid to make it a quota system instead of changing disciplinary actions for all.  They don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Best practice are out there and readily accessible for anyone motivated enough to do so.  It sounds more like they wanted to fail so they could go back to the status quo. 


Changing disciplinary actions for all would not have dealt with the newspaper calling the disciplinary actions racist based the percentage of the population.

 

Look at it this way - if black kids are 17% of the population but "act up" 25% of the time, should they be disciplined 17% or 25%.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 17 of 27

@H2Oh wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


 

It only "cuts both ways" if people are stupid. And that's a stupid way to deal with the problem from your School Board. Has nothing to do with whether or not we should be disciplining black kids more harshly. 

 

Do you prefer they return to the previous policy of doing just that? 

 

I prefer disciplining student based on their acts. however, when that was done, the newspaper item used only numbers (not actions) and accused the school system of racism.

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 18 of 27

LydiaN:    I guess 45 is going to rush through and do as much damage as he can before they throw him out on his ear. 

 

 

That's about it, he's a wrecking ball. He can't go soon enough and then they can call in a hazmat team to fumigate.

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 19 of 27

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


It was stupid to make it a quota system instead of changing disciplinary actions for all.  They don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Best practice are out there and readily accessible for anyone motivated enough to do so.  It sounds more like they wanted to fail so they could go back to the status quo. 

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Re: Trump Eyes Eliminating Obama School Discipline Polices

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Message 20 of 27

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:
 

The trump administration seems to be racially motivated in recommending to roll back the Obama polices which assure that black students don't get disciplined unfairly.

 

FROM THE LINK:

 

The Obama administration implemented the guidance after finding that black students are three times more likely to be suspended or expelled than white students, among other disparities. The guidance warned that school discipline policies that had a disproportionate impact on students of a particular race or other protected category could be in violation federal civil rights law, even if the policies were not intended to be discriminatory.


The problem with official actions or laws being race based cuts both ways. About a year ago our local newspaper did an investigation long these lines. The found that black kids were disciplined at a rate higher than their percentage of the population. They, naturally, made it a discrimination issue and made such a fuss that the School Board created a quota system. The end result was that if a black kid did something requiring discipline, he could not receive it unless the numbers worked right.

 

Typically when it was proposed that stats as to misbehaving were a better determinant than racial make up of the community (if such considerations are to be a factor) - the proposer was labeled "racist" and disregarded.


 

It only "cuts both ways" if people are stupid. And that's a stupid way to deal with the problem from your School Board. Has nothing to do with whether or not we should be disciplining black kids more harshly. 

 

Do you prefer they return to the previous policy of doing just that? 

 

 

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