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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 1 of 29

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Economics 101 (for liberals) - As corporations make more money, more employees are needed, resulting in (long term) increases in tax revenue despite tax decreases. Of course those that don't want to work will have to wait until Democrats take over and give them guaranteed income for life.


What fantasy land did this come from?


It's from the GOPerGospel of Rand.

 

The solution to Corporate tax fraud is insanely simple: Require they only keep ONE set of books, and wheatever they report to stockholdres and investors must agree with what they tell the IRS. So when Apple Inc reports a net profit increase of 6 percent to $48.4 billion, followed by British American Tobacco and Berkshire Hathaway Inc, with respective net profits of $48.3 billion and $44.9 billion, Apple owes Uncle Sam $10.1Billion, BAT owes $10.1B and Berkshire is on the hook for $9.4B.

 

While it's possible everybody will opt to use the accounting system they devised for the taxman, somehow I doubt that will prove satisfactory in the long run, or even past the next stock holders meeting, simply it would not provide the information needed to support the YUGE compensation packages which are (in theory) based on how the management improved profits.


What has Rand to do with what seems to be a complaint about double-bookkeeping?

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 2 of 29

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Maybe no one should pay any taxes and government should be dissolved? I'm sure there is some poster here that would be ignorant and stupid enough to consider it as a viable option.


So far only one has posted it.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 3 of 29

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Maybe no one should pay any taxes and government should be dissolved? I'm sure there is some poster here that would be ignorant and stupid enough to consider it as a viable option.


Close, but if the bottom 99% didn't pay, there'd be no money to hand out to the Corporations.

 

What Republicans want is only those Governmental functions which have no power to regulate what the Corporate Oligarchs do. Cadet Bonespur's Taxscam and his administration's actions moves them much closer to that goal.


Draconian tax cuts for the wealthiest and for corporations preceded The Great Depression. Seems some here didn't learn from history. 'Trickle down' doesn't work ....... never did ........ never will.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 4 of 29

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Maybe no one should pay any taxes and government should be dissolved? I'm sure there is some poster here that would be ignorant and stupid enough to consider it as a viable option.


Close, but if the bottom 99% didn't pay, there'd be no money to hand out to the Corporations.

 

What Republicans want is only those Governmental functions which have no power to regulate what the Corporate Oligarchs do. Cadet Bonespur's Taxscam and his administration's actions moves them much closer to that goal.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 5 of 29

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Economics 101 (for liberals) - As corporations make more money, more employees are needed, resulting in (long term) increases in tax revenue despite tax decreases. Of course those that don't want to work will have to wait until Democrats take over and give them guaranteed income for life.


What fantasy land did this come from?


It's from the GOPerGospel of Rand.

 

The solution to Corporate tax fraud is insanely simple: Require they only keep ONE set of books, and wheatever they report to stockholdres and investors must agree with what they tell the IRS. So when Apple Inc reports a net profit increase of 6 percent to $48.4 billion, followed by British American Tobacco and Berkshire Hathaway Inc, with respective net profits of $48.3 billion and $44.9 billion, Apple owes Uncle Sam $10.1Billion, BAT owes $10.1B and Berkshire is on the hook for $9.4B.

 

While it's possible everybody will opt to use the accounting system they devised for the taxman, somehow I doubt that will prove satisfactory in the long run, or even past the next stock holders meeting, simply it would not provide the information needed to support the YUGE compensation packages which are (in theory) based on how the management improved profits.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 6 of 29

Maybe no one should pay any taxes and government should be dissolved? I'm sure there is some poster here that would be ignorant and stupid enough to consider it as a viable option.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 7 of 29

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Economics 101 (for liberals) - As corporations make more money, more employees are needed, resulting in (long term) increases in tax revenue despite tax decreases. Of course those that don't want to work will have to wait until Democrats take over and give them guaranteed income for life.


What fantasy land did this come from?


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 8 of 29

@Olderscout66 wrote:

rk's position is that since Corporations only pass on their tax bill to their customers, we should stop taxing corporations.

 

But the corporations pricing reflected those taxes, so the PEOPLE paid what the Corporation figured it would be paying in taxes before the profits were determined on which the tax would be collected, and it is highly unlikely the corporation COUNTED on there being a ZERO tax bill, at least it's unlikely they left some factor for taxes OUT of their pricing.

 

So taxing the Corporation is simply retrieving the tax rk claims the corporation already took from its customers, and it would be grossly unfair to leave them with that extra profit when the difference will have to be made up with a loss of service from those least able to suffer such a loss.

 

Not only that, but when the owner of a rental property calculates what he'll charge his tenants, he includes the tax he'll pay, so why tax him? Same with those of us who negotiated for our compensation - we had something in minde for what we'd pay in taxes, so it would be wrong to tak OUR income, because we'd just get it from the boss anyway, and he'd get it from the customers of the business.

 

rk's entire argument boils down to this: The 16th Ameindment was a MISTAKE, and Government should not be allowed to tax anyone for anything.

 

IMHO, we should return to the tax structures we had under Ike when Corporate Taxes made up 50% of total Federal Tax Revenue instead of the 8% they account for now.

 

As for special tax considerations in exchange for a business expanding, I call BS -  If the business cannot compete WITHOUT tax support from the Government, they should not be in business, and special considerations for what Republicans call PEOPLE and the rest of us call Corporations can't stay in business while paying for the use of the infrastructure Government provides, they should go out of business.


rk has said nothing about stopping the taxation of companies - just another of "those" facts.

 

rk said nothing about "The 16th Ameindmentwhatever that is. Another of "those" facts.

 

rk was merely pointing out the obvious - all expenses a company has is paid with money received from the consumer.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 9 of 29

rk's position is that since Corporations only pass on their tax bill to their customers, we should stop taxing corporations.

 

But the corporations pricing reflected those taxes, so the PEOPLE paid what the Corporation figured it would be paying in taxes before the profits were determined on which the tax would be collected, and it is highly unlikely the corporation COUNTED on there being a ZERO tax bill, at least it's unlikely they left some factor for taxes OUT of their pricing.

 

So taxing the Corporation is simply retrieving the tax rk claims the corporation already took from its customers, and it would be grossly unfair to leave them with that extra profit when the difference will have to be made up with a loss of service from those least able to suffer such a loss.

 

Not only that, but when the owner of a rental property calculates what he'll charge his tenants, he includes the tax he'll pay, so why tax him? Same with those of us who negotiated for our compensation - we had something in minde for what we'd pay in taxes, so it would be wrong to tak OUR income, because we'd just get it from the boss anyway, and he'd get it from the customers of the business.

 

rk's entire argument boils down to this: The 16th Ameindment was a MISTAKE, and Government should not be allowed to tax anyone for anything.

 

IMHO, we should return to the tax structures we had under Ike when Corporate Taxes made up 50% of total Federal Tax Revenue instead of the 8% they account for now.

 

As for special tax considerations in exchange for a business expanding, I call BS -  If the business cannot compete WITHOUT tax support from the Government, they should not be in business, and special considerations for what Republicans call PEOPLE and the rest of us call Corporations can't stay in business while paying for the use of the infrastructure Government provides, they should go out of business.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 10 of 29

@MaVolta wrote:


To your points above:

  • Jobs created - yes, they were, but apparently not the jobs that will produce the amount of taxes that will pay for the tax cuts. Tax cuts never pay for themselves, without spending cuts to offset. That is proven economics. And the deficit rises, along with the national debt . . . seems no worry to Trump. He's the king of debt, after all. My how R's have changed their attitude toward debt!
  • Subsidies - Isn't that picking winners and losers? I think a better approach would be low cost loans, deferred taxes, maybe accelerated depreciation in certain areas (but not one year!), and other tools to encourage investment and development, especially in the area of green energy, green technologies, lowering carbon emissions, and reducing the carbon footprint. Reward the good and tax the polluters since we will eventually have to pay to clean up after them.
  • R's here complain about the "47%-ers" and have no answers as to how to improve their situation. How can you say that they have not added value to their employers who are clearly raking in the profits from their labors? Where would those employers be without them? Perhaps more investment in education would be a good place to start. Employers could do that on their own. Mine did when I worked, and many still do. I assume it's 100% tax write-off. That's okay with me. Some tax write-offs are beneficial to both employer and employee, as well as the company and the consumer. I think we need to look at write-off loopholes that only serve the purpose of tax avoidance and get rid of them.

With the millions and billions in pure profit that these large corporations are raking in, they can pay taxes, increase wages, pay their shareholders, and still have tons of money left over for reinvestment. 


You're right, the cost of the boost to the economy and the jobs it created probably will not be paid for by the taxes of the people getting the new jobs. But - isn't the improved job picture a good thing. And long term it should result in additional tax collections.

 

Subsidies - if the target is an industry such as agriculture - no, it is providing for the needs of America across the board. But I do agree subsidies are something that need careful scrutiny. If the obvious purpose is such as you describe and it isn't one company over another, that is fine. Situations like Solyndra should be avoided.

 

47%ers - I have heard no R or anyone else complain about them. The complaint is when posters complain that non-tax payers don't get a tax cut. How to improve their condition - all the government can do is create opportunity through a more vibrant economy. There is no way that the government R or D can force people to improve their value in the work place.

Years ago, Bill Clinton negotiated the opening of the market in Japan for (I believe it was) Motorola. It was a boon for them, he required them to build a new facility in a poverty area (near Detroit, as I recall) that would hire local people and provide good paying jobs. the training started with the basics of show up on time, put out max , follow instructions - all the things people not among the 47% know. Even though the training started on such a basic level, the pay started at $12 an hour (mid-90s). The program failed. They were unable to find sufficient numbers of people with sufficient self-discipline that they could work with even at that salary. To his credit Clinton had a great idea and did all the government can possibly do - and it failed.

 

Finally - reinvestment - that causes growth, growth creates jobs.

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