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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 21 of 29

9152 says Do you envision a system in which the government allocates salaries and profits? A fella named Mussolini tried that.

-------------------

No a system where Billionaires pay "Some" Federal Tax to pay for the Luxuries and Protections they live in !!

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 22 of 29

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Yes, there will be cases like that based on the way tax law is written, nothing new in that. There are reasons tax benes are given. For example, in order to attract a job creating company a city or a State may offer a tax holiday. The theory being that the job creation is worth the tax loss. And there are other such "logics".

 

But, my point is, if a company does pay tax, the money comes from the consumer and so they are merely the tax collector. So, if you increase the percentage or remove deductions so a company must pay - well, you see where the money comes from.


I pay Amazon and . . .

 

  • The retail giant Amazon reported $11 billion of U.S. income and claimed a federal income tax rebate of $129 million.
  • Amazon reduced its income taxes by more than $1 billion in 2018 using a tax break for stock options. A June 2016 Citizens for Tax Justice report found that 315 companies in the Fortune 500 disclosed receiving benefits from this tax break, which allows companies to write off stock-option related expenses in excess of the cost they reported to shareholders and the public. Source:    https://itep.org/notadime/

They make billions in profit, and get millions back, to boot. Such a deal!  

 

They aren't collecting money from me to pay taxes. They are lining a lot of wealthy pockets and pay nothing in taxes.

 


Do you envision a system in which the government allocates salaries and profits? A fella named Mussolini tried that.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 23 of 29

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

RK: When a company spends money on salaries, supplies, marketing, shipping, or taxes, it all comes from the same place - the customer of the goods or services.

 

So, yes, the bottom line is that it is the consumers' money that is used to pay corporate taxes. The company is only the collection agency for the government.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Okay . . . My question for you:  If the company is the collection agency for the government, why is it they collect from the consumer, but turn over zero to the government?


Yes, there will be cases like that based on the way tax law is written, nothing new in that. There are reasons tax benes are given. For example, in order to attract a job creating company a city or a State may offer a tax holiday. The theory being that the job creation is worth the tax loss. And there are other such "logics".

 

But, my point is, if a company does pay tax, the money comes from the consumer and so they are merely the tax collector. So, if you increase the percentage or remove deductions so a company must pay - well, you see where the money comes from.


Well - Your Point Fails To Address - Why The Money For the Government Couldn't Come From

 

A Decrease in CEO & Management Salaries

 

A Decrease in the Dividends Paid to Shareholders

 

Wouldn;t Those Events Result in Lower Costs to Consumers?

 

The Other Thing I Never Understood is Why All These Tax Breaks Are Never Adjusted

 

For Example

 

I understand there are Necessary Incentives to create a Company like Apple

 

But once Apple becomes the most Profitable Company in the World - shouldn't these Special Tax Breaks end

 

The Same with the Economy now that it's booming and the unemployment rates are at Record Lows - why are all these Tax Incentives - Loopholes & Breaks - StillAvailable to Apple?

 

When we give Tax Payers Money to poor people - the GOP always wants Strings Attached - like Income Restrictions - You Have To Try & Find Work

 

People on Unemployemnt for Example - Once They Qualify - it doesn't become a Lifetime Benefit

 

But with Companies all these Tax Incentives come with Few Strings Attached

 

US taxpayers subsidising world's biggest fossil fuel companies Do Oil Companies Really Need $4 Billion Per Year of Taxpayers’ Money?

 

  • A proposed Shell petrochemical refinery in Pennsylvania is in line for $1.6bn (£1bn) in state subsidy, according to a deal struck in 2012 when the company made an annual profit of $26.8bn.
  • ExxonMobil’s upgrades to its Baton Rouge refinery in Louisiana are benefitting from $119m of state subsidy, with the support starting in 2011, when the company made a $41bn profit.
  • A jobs subsidy scheme worth $78m to Marathon Petroleum in Ohio began in 2011, when the company made $2.4bn in profit.

In a new report for the Council on Foreign Relations, Gilbert Metcalf, a professor of economics at Tufts University, concluded that eliminating the three major federal subsidies for the production of oil and gas would have a very limited impact on the production and consumption of these fossil fuels.

 

Mr. Metcalf’s analysis is the most sophisticated yet on the impact of government supports, worth roughly $4 billion a year. Extrapolating from the observed reaction of energy companies to fluctuations in the price of oil and gas, he models how a loss of subsidies might curtail drilling and thus affect production, prices and consumer demand.

 

Source - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/12/us-taxpayers-subsidising-worlds-biggest-fossil-f...

 

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/exxon-mobil

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/upshot/do-oil-companies-really-need-4-billion-per-year-of-taxpaye...

 

Sure, it could come from the exec salaries but who is going to dictate that - the government - shall they establish all salaries?

 

And it doesn't really matter - the fact is that ALL money spent by any company comes from the consumer.


 

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 24 of 29

@rk9152 wrote:


Yes, there will be cases like that based on the way tax law is written, nothing new in that. There are reasons tax benes are given. For example, in order to attract a job creating company a city or a State may offer a tax holiday. The theory being that the job creation is worth the tax loss. And there are other such "logics".

 

But, my point is, if a company does pay tax, the money comes from the consumer and so they are merely the tax collector. So, if you increase the percentage or remove deductions so a company must pay - well, you see where the money comes from.


I pay Amazon and . . .

 

  • The retail giant Amazon reported $11 billion of U.S. income and claimed a federal income tax rebate of $129 million.
  • Amazon reduced its income taxes by more than $1 billion in 2018 using a tax break for stock options. A June 2016 Citizens for Tax Justice report found that 315 companies in the Fortune 500 disclosed receiving benefits from this tax break, which allows companies to write off stock-option related expenses in excess of the cost they reported to shareholders and the public. Source:    https://itep.org/notadime/

They make billions in profit, and get millions back, to boot. Such a deal!  

 

They aren't collecting money from me to pay taxes. They are lining a lot of wealthy pockets and pay nothing in taxes.

 

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 25 of 29

To @mickstuder 's point on energy companies: 18 of the 26 companies listed are energy related companies, had billions in profits and paid zero in taxes. That is just the top tier. 

 

So let's dig a little deeper. Not only do they pay zero taxes, many are getting millions or billions in refunds! 

 

According to analysis from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), 60 Fortune 500 companies avoided paying all federal income tax in 2018 (with their total average effective tax rate being roughly -5%).

That’s more than three times the number of companies that avoided paying corporate taxes on average from 2008 to 2015. During that period, 18 companies managed to pay 0% or less (with their total average effective tax rate over 8 years being roughly -4%).

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-paying-zero-taxes-trump-law-155944124.html

 

60 Profitable Fortune 500 Companies Avoided All Federal Income Taxes in 2018

For decades, profitable Fortune 500 companies have manipulated the tax system to avoid paying even a dime in tax on billions of dollars in U.S. profits. This ITEP report provides the first comprehensive look at how corporate tax changes under the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act affect the scale of corporate tax avoidance. The report finds that in 2018, 60 of America’s biggest corporations zeroed out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income. Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes at the 21 percent statutory corporate tax rate, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion.

https://itep.org/notadime/

 

Read 'em and weep. 

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 26 of 29

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

RK: When a company spends money on salaries, supplies, marketing, shipping, or taxes, it all comes from the same place - the customer of the goods or services.

 

So, yes, the bottom line is that it is the consumers' money that is used to pay corporate taxes. The company is only the collection agency for the government.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Okay . . . My question for you:  If the company is the collection agency for the government, why is it they collect from the consumer, but turn over zero to the government?


Yes, there will be cases like that based on the way tax law is written, nothing new in that. There are reasons tax benes are given. For example, in order to attract a job creating company a city or a State may offer a tax holiday. The theory being that the job creation is worth the tax loss. And there are other such "logics".

 

But, my point is, if a company does pay tax, the money comes from the consumer and so they are merely the tax collector. So, if you increase the percentage or remove deductions so a company must pay - well, you see where the money comes from.


Well - Your Point Fails To Address - Why The Money For the Government Couldn't Come From

 

A Decrease in CEO & Management Salaries

 

A Decrease in the Dividends Paid to Shareholders

 

Wouldn;t Those Events Result in Lower Costs to Consumers?

 

The Other Thing I Never Understood is Why All These Tax Breaks Are Never Adjusted

 

For Example

 

I understand there are Necessary Incentives to create a Company like Apple

 

But once Apple becomes the most Profitable Company in the World - shouldn't these Special Tax Breaks end

 

The Same with the Economy now that it's booming and the unemployment rates are at Record Lows - why are all these Tax Incentives - Loopholes & Breaks - StillAvailable to Apple?

 

When we give Tax Payers Money to poor people - the GOP always wants Strings Attached - like Income Restrictions - You Have To Try & Find Work

 

People on Unemployemnt for Example - Once They Qualify - it doesn't become a Lifetime Benefit

 

But with Companies all these Tax Incentives come with Few Strings Attached

 

US taxpayers subsidising world's biggest fossil fuel companies Do Oil Companies Really Need $4 Billion Per Year of Taxpayers’ Money?

 

  • A proposed Shell petrochemical refinery in Pennsylvania is in line for $1.6bn (£1bn) in state subsidy, according to a deal struck in 2012 when the company made an annual profit of $26.8bn.
  • ExxonMobil’s upgrades to its Baton Rouge refinery in Louisiana are benefitting from $119m of state subsidy, with the support starting in 2011, when the company made a $41bn profit.
  • A jobs subsidy scheme worth $78m to Marathon Petroleum in Ohio began in 2011, when the company made $2.4bn in profit.

In a new report for the Council on Foreign Relations, Gilbert Metcalf, a professor of economics at Tufts University, concluded that eliminating the three major federal subsidies for the production of oil and gas would have a very limited impact on the production and consumption of these fossil fuels.

 

Mr. Metcalf’s analysis is the most sophisticated yet on the impact of government supports, worth roughly $4 billion a year. Extrapolating from the observed reaction of energy companies to fluctuations in the price of oil and gas, he models how a loss of subsidies might curtail drilling and thus affect production, prices and consumer demand.

 

Source - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/12/us-taxpayers-subsidising-worlds-biggest-fossil-f...

 

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/exxon-mobil

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/upshot/do-oil-companies-really-need-4-billion-per-year-of-taxpaye...

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 27 of 29

@MaVolta wrote:

RK: When a company spends money on salaries, supplies, marketing, shipping, or taxes, it all comes from the same place - the customer of the goods or services.

 

So, yes, the bottom line is that it is the consumers' money that is used to pay corporate taxes. The company is only the collection agency for the government.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Okay . . . My question for you:  If the company is the collection agency for the government, why is it they collect from the consumer, but turn over zero to the government?


Yes, there will be cases like that based on the way tax law is written, nothing new in that. There are reasons tax benes are given. For example, in order to attract a job creating company a city or a State may offer a tax holiday. The theory being that the job creation is worth the tax loss. And there are other such "logics".

 

But, my point is, if a company does pay tax, the money comes from the consumer and so they are merely the tax collector. So, if you increase the percentage or remove deductions so a company must pay - well, you see where the money comes from.

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Re: Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 28 of 29

RK: When a company spends money on salaries, supplies, marketing, shipping, or taxes, it all comes from the same place - the customer of the goods or services.

 

So, yes, the bottom line is that it is the consumers' money that is used to pay corporate taxes. The company is only the collection agency for the government.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Okay . . . My question for you:  If the company is the collection agency for the government, why is it they collect from the consumer, but turn over zero to the government?

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Trump Corporate Tax Cuts: Billions in Profits, Zero in Taxes

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Message 29 of 29

Copied over from another thread: 

 

@rk9152 wrote:

Tax cuts cut taxes based on earnings. Obviously everyone will not get the same dollar amount cut. And as to "27 percent of individuals in the lowest income quintile would get any benefit" - the bottom 47% pays NO tax, how do you cutthat???

 

As to companies - they pay no taxes, the consumer does

*************************************************************************************************

Ma: So the consumer gets to pay taxes twice? Oh, that's nice. We pay for ourselves, and then we pay for them. Well how do ya like that?

 

Some 26 companies in corporate America raked in over a $1b in profits and paid zero taxes. But wait . . . SCOTUS declared corporations are equal to people! If that is the case, corporations need to pay taxes just the same as people do. If they are going to shamelessly pour money into financing politcal campaigns, they can darn well pay the price for participating. 

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-tax-billions-profits-no-tax-bill-822428/

 

***********************************************************************************************************

RK: But wait - What is it that you find "nice" in the fact that the consumer actually pays the corporate taxes that you want toincrease??

************************************************************************************************************

Ma: Sorry, did I need to tell you that I was being facetious??

 

Apparently, it's okay with you that the consumer has to pay 'taxes' for these billion dollar companies who pay nothing, as well as our own. 

************************************************************************************************************

RK: When a company spends money on salaries, supplies, marketing, shipping, or taxes, it all comes from the same place - the customer of the goods or services.

 

So, yes, the bottom line is that it is the consumers' money that is used to pay corporate taxes. The company is only the collection agency for the government.

*************************************************************************************************

RK: MaVolta - someone seems displeased with your mention of corporate taxes - seems to think it is a diversion from the topic which is only hatred for President Trump.

 

I am willing to continue exploring the issue you brought up if you'd like to.

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