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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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@Olderscout66 wrote:

Given that 200+ years ago, our Constitution provided for "representation" of SLAVES in the census counting, I can see no possible moral justification for excluding ANYONE who is living in these United States, regardless of their documentation. Their presence requires all the services we afford other "non-resident guests" and excluding them from the count does nothing except harm people the Republican base hates - the poor and nonwhite.


A person legally here is a "non-resident guest", one here illegally is not. Their "poorness" and "nonwhiteness" is not a factor, their legal status is.

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Tom5678 wrote:
This is just one more attempt by the Trump admin. to suppress voting turnout to keep his type of voting base in power. Should be completely rejected!

What is an effort to suppress voting turnout? 


GOP leadership knows it’s likely to result in an undercount of minority citizens, particularly Latinx citizens. Most immigrants since 1980 have been people of color.  That shifts both  Congressional representative apportionment as well as resources to whiter areas of the country. 


If a person is a citizen, they are counted in apportionment. How is that votor suppression - they are not voting then.

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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@Tom5678 wrote:
please read the rollingstone link I provided for this topic in my response.

I did. A lengthy bit of "Oh how I hate them" but no indication as to how the census is voter suppression.

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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Message 4 of 16

Given that 200+ years ago, our Constitution provided for "representation" of SLAVES in the census counting, I can see no possible moral justification for excluding ANYONE who is living in these United States, regardless of their documentation. Their presence requires all the services we afford other "non-resident guests" and excluding them from the count does nothing except harm people the Republican base hates - the poor and nonwhite.

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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@GailL1 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

But this isn’t an effective way of getting that information. There are significant numbers of undocumented people living with legal relatives. Neither will participate. Anecdotally, I know other legal immigrants, primarily Korean and South Asian, who won’t answer because the Trump administration is going after legal immigrants too. So this stands to reduce count accuracy of legal immigrants as well. 


That's what the opponents say -

The proponents point out that census takers will follow up so that the household is counted.

The question is not whether or not a person is documented - it is supposedly going to ask specifically about citizenship for each in the household.  From my understanding specifically, It would supply block-level data on the citizen and noncitizen voting age population.

 

The Justice Department sought to include the question because it uses data about eligible voters – the citizen voting-age population – to help enforce protections for minority voters (including those who speak languages other than English) under the federal Voting Rights Act. The Justice Department now relies on data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, a sample survey that covers 2.6% of the population each year. The department wants more “scope, detail and certainty” that only the full census can provide to enforce the Voting Rights Act.

 

Pew Research Center- Fact Tank - 03/30/2018 - What to know about the citizenship question the Census...

 

The Census already ask about age, sex, race -

The same question which is already used in the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, which asks respondents to check one of five categories to describe their citizenship status. Three categories apply to people who are U.S. citizens at birth: born in the U.S., born in a U.S. territory, or born abroad with at least one U.S. citizen parent. People who say they are a naturalized U.S. citizen are asked for their naturalization year. The fifth category is “not a U.S. citizen.” The survey does not ask whether noncitizens are legally in the country.

 

The new question’s inclusion has been challenged in court on the grounds that it could cause many immigrants to skip the 2020 census out of fear their information could be used against them, even though it is illegal to share a person’s census responses with law enforcement or immigration agencies.

 

 

 

 


I’ve been on the implementation side of governmental policy changes like this. Even though I know they don’t hurt certain people, the public is slow to realize that.  Reality does not matter. Perception does. 

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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Message 6 of 16
Bingo Manic.
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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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Message 7 of 16

@rk9152 wrote:

@Tom5678 wrote:
This is just one more attempt by the Trump admin. to suppress voting turnout to keep his type of voting base in power. Should be completely rejected!

What is an effort to suppress voting turnout? 


GOP leadership knows it’s likely to result in an undercount of minority citizens, particularly Latinx citizens. Most immigrants since 1980 have been people of color.  That shifts both  Congressional representative apportionment as well as resources to whiter areas of the country. 

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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Message 8 of 16
please read the rollingstone link I provided for this topic in my response.
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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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Message 9 of 16

@Tom5678 wrote:
This is just one more attempt by the Trump admin. to suppress voting turnout to keep his type of voting base in power. Should be completely rejected!

What is an effort to suppress voting turnout? 

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Re: Trial Begins Over Census Citizenship Question

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Message 10 of 16

@Roxanna35 wrote:

Just one question. what does a census has to do with the citizenship of a person living in theUS?

If they are here whether they are legal of not they are still people and need to be counted. otherwise you really don't have an accurate number as to the people that live in the US.


The government uses the Census data for many things - for this particular question, it is about the number of people who would be eligible to vote and number of people eligible who actually do vote.

The state can also use the data to make sure that there is enough voting places and whatever machines to make sure this type of infrastructure is adequate for the eligible voting population. 

 

The Justice Department sought to include the question because it uses data about eligible voters – the citizen voting-age population – to help enforce protections for minority voters (including those who speak languages other than English) under the federal Voting Rights Act. The Justice Department now relies on data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, a sample survey that covers 2.6% of the population each year. The department wants more “scope, detail and certainty” that only the full census can provide to enforce the Voting Rights Act.

 

A citizenship question was asked in each decennial census of the total population from 1890 to 1950. (The 1820, 1830 and 1870 census questionnaires also included some form of a question about citizenship.) Until 1920, it was only asked of adult men; women and children automatically had the same citizenship status as their husbands or fathers. The question was not asked in the 1960 census. Since then, the citizenship question has been asked of only a sample of households, either on the census long form or the American Community Survey, which replaced it in 2010.

 

Pew Research Center - 03/30/2018 - What to know about the citizenship question the Census Bureau is ...

 

 

 

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