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Honored Social Butterfly

Treasury Announces Steps To Wind Down myRA Program

Too bad - guess people have either found other ways to save for retirement or have decided NOT to save for retirement.

 

Sure glad I didn't think along those lines.  Being self-employed for the majority of my working years, there was no employer match but some of the retirement tax vehicles really helped - 

 

Too bad people don't take advantage of the savers tax credit on their returns.

 

Think people will ever understand that someday they may not be working but living expenses keep coming in and keep getting higher.  Seems like most folks just live, think and plan for today only.

 

Don't fall for the line that people just cannot do it - for most people they have an entire lifetime to figure it out because it is a pretty normal result of life.  

 

U.S. Treasury 07/28/2017 - Treasury Announces Steps to Wind Down myRA Program

Honored Social Butterfly

Republicans continue to claim it's because people are stupid and selfish that they do not save enough for their own retirements, but that one little statistic blows that lie out of the water:

Mean retirement (total dollars divided by number of people)=$163,577

Median retirement (same number over and under) = $17,000

 

The ONLY way that happens is when the amounts saved by a few are vastly more than the mean.

 

If you're an average Joe making $57,000 today, and by some miricle you were able to begin your career in 1975 earning the then average wage of $10,579, and gotten raises every year so you continued to earn the "median/average wage for US workers", AND you could put back 5% of every paycheck for retirement AND you found some magical investment that returned 5% every year since 1975, THEN you'd have a total retirement nest egg of $190,975.00.

 

However, we KNOW no such thing ever happened because the REAL WORLD shows the "average" (half did more half did less) worker only socked away $17,000, and if you include all the zillionaires, the actual average (mean) was only 86% our mythical "Average Joe" was able to do.

 

So either the GOPerLords rant about how American workers are just too dumb and lazy to arrange their own financial affairs is true, or their fairlytale view of what's actually possible sucks wind. I vote for the "sucks wind" conclusion.

 

The other obvious "conclusion" is this: If anyone wants to be able to retire at 65, they better get a Congress that will FIX SS and create a guarenteed investment plan for all workers with mandatory contributions. Or we can hope Walmart et al don't get rid of all those wonderful "Senior Special" jobs running cash registers or (more likely) retreiving shopping carts from the parking lot.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

Republicans continue to claim it's because people are stupid and selfish that they do not save enough for their own retirements, but that one little statistic blows that lie out of the water:

Mean retirement (total dollars divided by number of people)=$163,577

Median retirement (same number over and under) = $17,000

 

The ONLY way that happens is when the amounts saved by a few are vastly more than the mean.

 

If you're an average Joe making $57,000 today, and by some miricle you were able to begin your career in 1975 earning the then average wage of $10,579, and gotten raises every year so you continued to earn the "median/average wage for US workers", AND you could put back 5% of every paycheck for retirement AND you found some magical investment that returned 5% every year since 1975, THEN you'd have a total retirement nest egg of $190,975.00.

 

However, we KNOW no such thing ever happened because the REAL WORLD shows the "average" (half did more half did less) worker only socked away $17,000, and if you include all the zillionaires, the actual average (mean) was only 86% our mythical "Average Joe" was able to do.

 

they better get a Congress that will FIX SS and create a guarenteed investment plan for all workers with mandatory contributions. I vote for the "sucks wind" conclusion.

 

The other obvious "conclusion" is this: If anyone wants to be able to retire at 65, they better get a Congress that will FIX SS and create a guarenteed investment plan for all workers with mandatory contributions. Or we can hope Walmart et al don't get rid of all those wonderful "Senior Special" jobs running cash registers or (more likely) retreiving shopping carts from the parking lot.


Do you not realize that your desire for ".....they better get a Congress that will FIX SS and create a guaranteed investment plan for all workers with mandatory contributions" is based on a mindset of ".....GOPerLords rant about how American workers are just too dumb and lazy to arrange their own financial affairs...".

 

So, does that make you a GOPerLord? It seems you want the government to take care of things for those people who are "too dumb and lazy" to attend to their needs.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Like the Tax Payers and Gov't took care of you rk9152 with your " Socialist " Lifetime Federal Pension with Cost of Living Increases and Lifetime Medical Healthcare. You were  such a non lazy and  smarter worker,  than all the rest of America that only you deserve such " Entitlements"

With all due respect 

Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

Like the Tax Payers and Gov't took care of you rk9152 with your " Socialist " Lifetime Federal Pension with Cost of Living Increases and Lifetime Medical Healthcare. You were  such a non lazy and  smarter worker,  than all the rest of America that only you deserve such " Entitlements"

With all due respect 


You know, mandm84 -'at least that was a plan.

 

Same thing for people who stay in the military or any government service - state or federal.

 

No different tha finding a job with a large employer who has retirement benefits.

It is a plan.

 

i was self employed and thus had to make a different plan - HAD to make more to fund my plan.  But I knew that the plan was definitely needed.

 

People pick how they earn money to live on day by day, year by year - there is no rule that says you can't change this to make more for your needs now and for the long term.

Honored Social Butterfly

GOPers love to hate those who are not paid enough to prosper. Since 1999 when real income peaked at $57,843, the pay of the average American worker has DROPPED to only $54,000 today. Several surveys have established the around 65% of American families cannot absorb an unexpected expense of $500 without borrowing.

FACT: If you don't have at least $500 available for investing in retirement each month, you're not going to have a reasonable retirement.

 

 

It's NOT that American workers aren't smart enough to save for their retirement, its that thanks to the Reagan taxscam, their bosses no longer pay them enough to afford to save for retirement.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

GOPers love to hate those who are not paid enough to prosper. Since 1999 when real income peaked at $57,843, the pay of the average American worker has DROPPED to only $54,000 today. Several surveys have established the around 65% of American families cannot absorb an unexpected expense of $500 without borrowing.

FACT: If you don't have at least $500 available for investing in retirement each month, you're not going to have a reasonable retirement.

 

 

It's NOT that American workers aren't smart enough to save for their retirement, its that thanks to the Reagan taxscam, their bosses no longer pay them enough to afford to save for retirement.


The "leveling" of pay began way back in the Carter years. It was the result of a change in the market and the economy - not the fault of Carter or any President. The nonsense about people being payed less because the "bosses" paid less tax under Reagan is ........well......nonsense.

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Honored Social Butterfly

A question for those in this conversation -

 

Which way would workers rather have it -

 

The company that they work for gives them a lower salary but subsidizes their health benefits and pension greatly and manages them too..

 

OR

 

Pays them a higher salary (comparable to the above with subsidies included in their pay) and they (the employees) handle their own health care insurance coverage and retirement funding and managing.

 

Which way would work out better for the employees?

 

Which way would work out better for society?

 

Would the employees getting this higher salary actually find and manage these other benefits on their own or would they still only save a small amount, if any and would they pick their own health insurance coverage?

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@GailL1 wrote:

A question for those in this conversation -

 

Which way would workers rather have it -

 

The company that they work for gives them a lower salary but subsidizes their health benefits and pension greatly and manages them too..

 

OR

 

Pays them a higher salary (comparable to the above with subsidies included in their pay) and they (the employees) handle their own health care insurance coverage and retirement funding and managing.

 

Which way would work out better for the employees?

 

Which way would work out better for society?

 

Would the employees getting this higher salary actually find and manage these other benefits on their own or would they still only save a small amount, if any and would they pick their own health insurance coverage? 


Many companies have menu plans where you are entitled to pick this and that or plan (b) but you brought up an interesting idea.  Since the value of your salary is the money you receive each month + the benefits you receive + the pension accrued, maybe these should be included in the menu of benefits so you could choose (if you wanted) the cash value of all benefits or any mixture.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

Like the Tax Payers and Gov't took care of you rk9152 with your " Socialist " Lifetime Federal Pension with Cost of Living Increases and Lifetime Medical Healthcare. You were  such a non lazy and  smarter worker,  than all the rest of America that only you deserve such " Entitlements "?

 

 


I do detect that someone is extremely jealous because others made good decisions when they were young.  Socialism or was it the same as working for private industry with their pensions and medical care after retirement?  This area has many retirees from the industrial corporate world and a good many of them enjoy good healthcare coverage and cost of living increases on their pensions.

 

Civil Service pensions are contributory by employees, just as some corporate retirement programs are.  I believe that this topic has mentioned about a person also being responsible for their own retirement fund. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

You're detection is extremely incorrect Tex !!! Workers with pensions are extremely fortunate and have an edge on retirement planning over those who dont - simple fact and common sense !!!

 

Can we ALL plan " good " when were young and get a federal job with a Pension ? The answer is NO , so let's keep it real when talking about how easy it is to plan for retirement for ALL workers !!!

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Honored Social Butterfly



84 posted..

Can we ALL plan " good " when were young and get a federal job with a Pension ? The answer is NO , so let's keep it real when talking about how easy it is to plan for retirement for ALL workers !!!


======================================================

All workers can start a IRA plan....anyone..even the self employed.
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Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

 

Can we ALL plan " good " when were young and get a federal job with a Pension ? The answer is NO , so let's keep it real when talking about how easy it is to plan for retirement for ALL workers !!!


I would think not to your opinion.  I was just a naive country boy from Appalachia who was determined that I would not end up being one of those old men setting on the courthouse steps every Saturday with nothing to do but chew tobacco and whittle all day.

 

I believe that if I could do it, then others could have also.  It's not my fault that others didn't look for the future.  And not only that, but after military retirement went to work in the corporate world for another pension income.  I might add that I actually started planning this around age 14.

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Honored Social Butterfly

What about the lifetime workers at Kodak , Xerox , etc , who lost their Pensions and Healthcare after working 30 years and counting on them ? Were they dumb , lazy or poor planners ? Let's keep it real, those of us , who are luck enough to still have a pension are just that and still very fortunate.

 

NOT harder or smarter workers  !!! Those still with Pensions should thank their lucky stars and not stick their chests out !!! Believe me I know.

Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

What about the lifetime workers at Kodak , Xerox , etc , who lost their Pensions and Healthcare after working 30 years and counting on them ? Were they dumb , lazy or poor planners ? Let's keep it real, those of us , who are luck enough to still have a pension are just that and still very fortunate.

 

NOT harder or smarter workers  !!! Those still with Pensions should thank their lucky stars and not stick their chests out !!! Believe me I know.


Indeed - whoda thought Kodak workers would NOT get their promised pensions? We need a Government regulated investment plan for ALL Americans - something like the Federal Employees' Thrift Savings Plans with a small (3%?) manditory employee/employer contribution, and larger contributions (up to 15%?? of income) permitted. Then on retirement these employee-owned funds would be transfered into Treasuries for a transferable (can leave any balance to your spouse or kids) annuity based on an employee selected term of 20, 30 or 40 years.

 

But for ANY of these plans to make life better for the workers to actually work, we MUST repeal the Reagan tax scam and restore sanity to our tax code. Taxing the burger flippers at Mickey D's a higher effective rate than Warren Buffet pays is obscene. Corporate taxes should be reduced and all their deductions eliminated as well.

 

As for the GOPerRant about how overburdened the Uberrich are, they also receive the lions share of BENEFITS from the tax system. Major tax expenditures — such as lower rates on capital gains and dividends, deductions for charitable contributions, and deductions for state and local taxes — do tend to benefit high income taxpayers more than lower-income groups. The Congressional Budge Office estimates that the top quintile of taxpayers receive 51 percent — around $445 billion — of the value of major tax expenditures, while only 8 percent — around $70 billion — goes to the bottom quintile.

 

The question we should all be asking is not how many dollars someone pays in Federal Income taxes, but WHAT DO THEY GIVE UP TO PAY THAT TAX. We need to equalize SACRIFICE, not dollar contributions.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@mandm84 wrote:

What about the lifetime workers at Kodak , Xerox , etc , who lost their Pensions and Healthcare after working 30 years and counting on them ? Were they dumb , lazy or poor planners ? Let's keep it real, those of us , who are luck enough to still have a pension are just that and still very fortunate.

 

NOT harder or smarter workers  !!! Those still with Pensions should thank their lucky stars and not stick their chests out !!! Believe me I know.


Indeed - whoda thought Kodak workers would NOT get their promised pensions? We need a Government regulated investment plan for ALL Americans - something like the Federal Employees' Thrift Savings Plans with a small (3%?) manditory employee/employer contribution, and larger contributions (up to 15%?? of income) permitted. Then on retirement these employee-owned funds would be transfered into Treasuries for a transferable (can leave any balance to your spouse or kids) annuity based on an employee selected term of 20, 30 or 40 years.

 

But for ANY of these plans to make life better for the workers to actually work, we MUST repeal the Reagan tax scam and restore sanity to our tax code. Taxing the burger flippers at Mickey D's a higher effective rate than Warren Buffet pays is obscene. Corporate taxes should be reduced and all their deductions eliminated as well.

 

As for the GOPerRant about how overburdened the Uberrich are, they also receive the lions share of BENEFITS from the tax system. Major tax expenditures — such as lower rates on capital gains and dividends, deductions for charitable contributions, and deductions for state and local taxes — do tend to benefit high income taxpayers more than lower-income groups. The Congressional Budge Office estimates that the top quintile of taxpayers receive 51 percent — around $445 billion — of the value of major tax expenditures, while only 8 percent — around $70 billion — goes to the bottom quintile.

 

The question we should all be asking is not how many dollars someone pays in Federal Income taxes, but WHAT DO THEY GIVE UP TO PAY THAT TAX. We need to equalize SACRIFICE, not dollar contributions.


What has your favorite buggaboo (Reagan tax policy) to do with the responsibilities of companies retirement policies?? If they have made commitments - should there not be federal law and policy to insure that the commitments are honored??

Honored Social Butterfly

Spot on Scout. Imagine all hard working Americans having the luxury of contributing 3-5% of their income to recieve a lifetime Pension ???

Today's Plutocratic GOP would never go for it because it helps too many hard working Americans

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Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

Spot on Scout. Imagine all hard working Americans having the luxury of contributing 3-5% of their income to recieve a lifetime Pension ???

Today's Plutocratic GOP would never go for it because it helps too many hard working Americans


Why would the "Plutocratic GOP" not want to help workers???

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Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

 

NOT harder or smarter workers  !!! Those still with Pensions should thank their lucky stars and not stick their chests out !!! Believe me I know.


So now you're going after those who hasn't lost their pensions?  We're supposed to be contrite because of good planning?  I have no problem when my retirement check is sent to the bank, nor when I go to the doctor or hospital and leave without a bill.

 

As  far a Xerox, I believe the company is still viable, but as far as Kodak, they failed first to realize that instant photos was the thing, then copied Polaroid.  They are similar to buggy whip manufacturers when the automobile was the coming thing.

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Honored Social Butterfly

I'm not going after anyone who still has a pension ! I'm just explaining how grateful those folks should be , that they still do have them and it's not because they worked any harder. I have compassion for those workers who lost their Pensions , to no fault of their own and I feel the Govt needs to step up to help those folks , who are 60 yrs old and had everything pulled out from under them !!!

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

 

 I feel the Govt needs to step up to help those folks , who are 60 yrs old and had everything pulled out from under them !!!

 

 


Of course, ask not what you can do for your country, but what  your country can do for you.

 

The best laid plans of mice and men.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Oh but If it were you Tex , who lost your Pension , but of course you feel safe that your federal pension will never go bye bye because you worked harder !!!

You are lacking in the Compassion Dept. Soldier and remember " But for the grace of GOD , Go I !!!!

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