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Re: Trade wars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 1 of 172

@Olderscout66wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Olderscout66wrote:

Steel costs about $1/lb and there's 3000lbs of steel in a midsized car, so by raising the price to $1.25/lb Der Trumper will add $750 to the price of each car, about what the middle 40% will get from his taxscam.

 

It will also make foreign produced cars $750 cheaper compared to their American made competition, all of which will tend to reduce demand for American made cars, also washing machines, locomotives, ovens, and anything else made with steel.

 

So who benefits from Der Trumpers tariff war? The ones running the US Steel plants who can now charge 25% more which goes straight to the profit line.

Won't the use the extra profit to build more efficient plants? No

Won't they share the profits with workers? No

 

the extra profits from the Tariff will go to the same place the Corporate taxscam went - into the pockets of the Corporate Oligarchs.

 

Did anyone actually think the 99% would benefit? How and why?


the middle 40% will get from his taxscam. Surely you know that some of the middle 40% pay no federal income tax. So, how did they get hurt??

 

BTW - that $750 is 1/4 of 1 percent of a $30,000 car. That would not even be enough to get Delta to move to GA.


The middle 40% get shafted because the increase in the cost o things they need will be greater than the taxscam will lower their taxes.

 

17,547,200 cars and trucks produced in the USA times $750 each is $13.2BILLION EACH YEAR!. Yeah, pretty sure that would get Delta to relocate. By the way, Delta moved to Atlanta in 1941 BECAUSE THEY GOT A GOVERNMENT CONTRACT TO DELIVER THE MAIL. This was WAAAAY before Corporations learned how to steal money from cities and States with empty promises of good jobs.


1) You might want to contact the union leaders who are supporting this action by our President - they apparently do not have access to your information about this being bad for working Americans.

 

2) You are wrong about Delta. But even at that, what does a federal airmail contract have to do with State benefits?

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Re: Trade wars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 2 of 172

@rk9152wrote:

@Olderscout66wrote:

Steel costs about $1/lb and there's 3000lbs of steel in a midsized car, so by raising the price to $1.25/lb Der Trumper will add $750 to the price of each car, about what the middle 40% will get from his taxscam.

 

It will also make foreign produced cars $750 cheaper compared to their American made competition, all of which will tend to reduce demand for American made cars, also washing machines, locomotives, ovens, and anything else made with steel.

 

So who benefits from Der Trumpers tariff war? The ones running the US Steel plants who can now charge 25% more which goes straight to the profit line.

Won't the use the extra profit to build more efficient plants? No

Won't they share the profits with workers? No

 

the extra profits from the Tariff will go to the same place the Corporate taxscam went - into the pockets of the Corporate Oligarchs.

 

Did anyone actually think the 99% would benefit? How and why?


the middle 40% will get from his taxscam. Surely you know that some of the middle 40% pay no federal income tax. So, how did they get hurt??

 

BTW - that $750 is 1/4 of 1 percent of a $30,000 car. That would not even be enough to get Delta to move to GA.


The middle 40% get shafted because the increase in the cost o things they need will be greater than the taxscam will lower their taxes.

 

17,547,200 cars and trucks produced in the USA times $750 each is $13.2BILLION EACH YEAR!. Yeah, pretty sure that would get Delta to relocate. By the way, Delta moved to Atlanta in 1941 BECAUSE THEY GOT A GOVERNMENT CONTRACT TO DELIVER THE MAIL. This was WAAAAY before Corporations learned how to steal money from cities and States with empty promises of good jobs.

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 3 of 172

@Richvawrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Richvawrote:


No "we" don't know that. "We" may have found some biased so-called "experts" to express "our" biased views but here are the facts - 

The top 1 percent of all taxpayers (taxpayers with AGIs of $428,713 and above), earned 19.04 percent of all AGI in 2013, but paid 37.80 percent of all federal income taxes.


Good numbers. So we agree that the top income tiers do not pay enough income taxes. 

 

 


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Or was it just a silly game in which you know we are not in agreement but chose to get "cute". It is a fairly common game played by the left here.



@rk9152wrote:

@Richvawrote:


No "we" don't know that. "We" may have found some biased so-called "experts" to express "our" biased views but here are the facts - 

The top 1 percent of all taxpayers (taxpayers with AGIs of $428,713 and above), earned 19.04 percent of all AGI in 2013, but paid 37.80 percent of all federal income taxes.


Good numbers. So we agree that the top income tiers do not pay enough income taxes. 

 

 


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Or was it just a silly game in which you know we are not in agreement but chose to get "cute". It is a fairly common game played by the left here.


Actually, that is usually what happens when you put put out facts with no context. I suppose that is better than putting out a conspiracy theory with no facts but both are bad. If your point is that the well off should be praised because they pay more taxes than the not well off, you just don't understand the tax system. 


What context do you want - they get 19.4% and pay pay out 37.8%.  

 

When did I say anything about "praising" anyone? Please try to stick to the facts. I was questioning "do not pay enough". 

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 4 of 172
 
Olderscout wrote-

Fact 1 - We cannot produce all the steel we use domestically making imports essential.We did at one time and will again when new factories open

Fact 2. If the price of the imports jumps 25%, the price of our domestic production will also increase 25% - the prices are inextricably linked. Nope- the same or less with reduced transportation cost.

Fact 3. While there are 150,000 people employed in the US making steel, there are 5,250,000 employed making things with steel. This number will increase as more people get employed.

Fact 4. The market price of goods is determined by the cost of production and the desired profits. If a car, be it Chevy, Honda or Toyota, takes $750 more to produce, it's market price will increase by $750. Less cost in transportatipon and competition will keep price the same

FIRST CONCLUSION: Der Trumper's tariff will increase the market price of everything made with steel (and aluminium).   Refer to above rebuttal

Fact 5. Since there is no increase in profit or productivity caused by the tariffs, there will be no wage increases for the workers.  debatable but 600,000 more good union jobs  will be gained

Fact 6. If income does not increase and price of goods increases, fewer goods are purchased. refer to above reply

Fact 7. If demand decreases, producers lays off workers or reduces their pay, further reducing demand and beginning a downward spiral.Only if all Ameicans suddenly stop using steel and that isn`t going to happen.

SECOND CONCLUSION: Der Trumper's tariffs will create a recession with increasing unemployment and declining production.  Not going to happen with false conclusions.Refer to Paul Krugman`s remarks a year and a half ago saying that Trump`s presidency will result in a depression.

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 5 of 172

Fact 1 - We cannot produce all the steel we use domestically making imports essential.

Fact 2. If the price of the imports jumps 25%, the price of our domestic production will also increase 25% - the prices are inextricably linked.

Fact 3. While there are 150,000 people employed in the US making steel, there are 5,250,000 employed making things with steel.

Fact 4. The market price of goods is determined by the cost of production and the desired profits. If a car, be it Chevy, Honda or Toyota, takes $750 more to produce, it's market price will increase by $750.

FIRST CONCLUSION: Der Trumper's tariff will increase the market price of everything made with steel (and aluminium).

Fact 5. Since there is no increase in profit or productivity caused by the tariffs, there will be no wage increases for the workers

Fact 6. If income does not increase and price of goods increases, fewer goods are purchased.

Fact 7. If demand decreases, producers lays off workers or reduces their pay, further reducing demand and beginning a downward spiral.

SECOND CONCLUSION: Der Trumper's tariffs will create a recession with increasing unemployment and declining production.

 

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 6 of 172

Richva wrote-Actually, that is usually what happens when you put put out facts with no context. I suppose that is better than putting out a conspiracy theory with no facts but both are bad. If your point is that the well off should be praised because they pay more taxes than the not well off, you just don't understand the tax system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------If 1% pay  almost 38 % of all Federal tax please explain why that isn`t fair to all other taxpayers.(keeping in mind that 48% of all  low income people pay little or no taxes) What percentage does rich Richva  thinks she should be paying that is fair?  { to those of us who don`t understand the tax system like you do.}

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Trade wars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 7 of 172

For decades, Republicans supported Free Trade and opposed Tariffs.

For decades, Democratas opposed Free Trade and supported Tariffs.

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 8 of 172

@rk9152wrote:

@Richvawrote:


No "we" don't know that. "We" may have found some biased so-called "experts" to express "our" biased views but here are the facts - 

The top 1 percent of all taxpayers (taxpayers with AGIs of $428,713 and above), earned 19.04 percent of all AGI in 2013, but paid 37.80 percent of all federal income taxes.


Good numbers. So we agree that the top income tiers do not pay enough income taxes. 

 

 


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Or was it just a silly game in which you know we are not in agreement but chose to get "cute". It is a fairly common game played by the left here.



@rk9152wrote:

@Richvawrote:


No "we" don't know that. "We" may have found some biased so-called "experts" to express "our" biased views but here are the facts - 

The top 1 percent of all taxpayers (taxpayers with AGIs of $428,713 and above), earned 19.04 percent of all AGI in 2013, but paid 37.80 percent of all federal income taxes.


Good numbers. So we agree that the top income tiers do not pay enough income taxes. 

 

 


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Or was it just a silly game in which you know we are not in agreement but chose to get "cute". It is a fairly common game played by the left here.


Actually, that is usually what happens when you put put out facts with no context. I suppose that is better than putting out a conspiracy theory with no facts but both are bad. If your point is that the well off should be praised because they pay more taxes than the not well off, you just don't understand the tax system. 

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 9 of 172

@Richvawrote:


No "we" don't know that. "We" may have found some biased so-called "experts" to express "our" biased views but here are the facts - 

The top 1 percent of all taxpayers (taxpayers with AGIs of $428,713 and above), earned 19.04 percent of all AGI in 2013, but paid 37.80 percent of all federal income taxes.


Good numbers. So we agree that the top income tiers do not pay enough income taxes. 

 

 


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Or was it just a silly game in which you know we are not in agreement but chose to get "cute". It is a fairly common game played by the left here.

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Re: ars are good, and easy to win"

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Message 10 of 172

Well tonight we hear  from the WH that Trump will not be signing the Tariff order at 3:30PM tomorrow. It is cancelled. We do know the Sec. of Defence, and Sec. of Sate have been telling him and others if he does it as he wants to there will be real National Security Problems. They say he has had people all day telling him not to do it.  More in the Trump Saga. See what happens when you put a person with mental problems in the WH.

Time will tell.

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