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Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

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Message 11 of 34

@gruffstuff wrote:

Yes, small businesses employ more people, but majority couldn't exist without large corporation products and support 

 

Then just treat the large corporations the same as you do the small corporations.  I'm a corporation, I own a plumbing business, and I don't have as many as eight employees, I drive a GM workhorse  truck, I buy tools, and materials, lots of materials.

 

What I expect is  I pay taxes on gross receipts minus legitimate deductions, and considering the size of the US federal deficit and the Federal debt I think I should pay at least as much as my parents and grandparents did in the 1960s

 

We don't need more tax havens, tax breaks, or special treatment for special people.

 

We need large international corporations to pay taxes and compete in the local and global economy like small corporations do.

 


And end corporate welfare.

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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Message 12 of 34

These include the declining fortunes of rural America as farmers struggleagainst agriculture conglomerates

 

Exactly, it's a good example, and this might require some common sense. Should we support the family farm, I think we should. Generally speaking the family farm needs all the help it can get.

 

What if one corporation buys 10,000 family farms?

 

Does that corporation need the help we gave that one family farm x 10,000 ?

 

Obviously  not.

 

 

 

 

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Message 13 of 34

Yes, small businesses employ more people, but majority couldn't exist without large corporation products and support 

 

Then just treat the large corporations the same as you do the small corporations.  I'm a corporation, I own a plumbing business, and I don't have as many as eight employees, I drive a GM workhorse  truck, I buy tools, and materials, lots of materials.

 

What I expect is  I pay taxes on gross receipts minus legitimate deductions, and considering the size of the US federal deficit and the Federal debt I think I should pay at least as much as my parents and grandparents did in the 1960s

 

We don't need more tax havens, tax breaks, or special treatment for special people.

 

We need large international corporations to pay taxes and compete in the local and global economy like small corporations do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Message 14 of 34

@Richva wrote:

Corporations are structured to make a profit. Period. Only Google has "Don't be evil" in their mission statement and they ignore that when convenient. 

 

Corporations will keep people in virtual slavery, sell products which are known to be dangerous, and take advantage of anyone in order to make a profit. Like a tiger in the forest, they are neither good nor bad but operate under their own rules. 

 

Also like a tiger, they should have very strict laws on how they should be controlled.  That is all that is being asked.  laws to control the predators. 


We do have many, many product safety laws on the books. Yes, they are in business to make a profit - remove that and who sees to the creation of the goods and services we want and need?

 

What sort of additional controls are you looking for?

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Message 15 of 34

@mickstuder wrote:

@10BlueMule71 wrote:

With Amazon backing out of NYC - much talk on news stations about how small businesses hire more people and is the growth engine of our economy - and how big corporations are greedy and bad.

 

A while back I called a heating system repair company to come fix my house heater, small business, 8 employees the tech told me.

 

He pulled up in his Ford van, pulled out his Craftsman tools with Simpson test equipment, worked on my American Standard heater and replaced a bad circuit board made by Honeywell.

 

The landscaper and his helper pulled in with his Dodge truck, pulling his Gates trailer, rolled off his Toro lawnmower and all his Echo weedwacker and hedging equipment.

 

Even my dentist couldn't run his small business without all the big corporation equipment he uses.

 

Yes, small businesses employ more people, but majority couldn't exist without large corporation products and support - keep that in mind. Most products in your home and financial benefits from mortgages to pension funds depend on investments with larger companies.


I think you're missing the Point!

 

These Greedy Bad Large Corporations Are Not Good for the Small Businesses or the Consumer

 

Simply Because the ones we should be talking about are Monopolies and Destroying Competition

 

It there are 500 - Greedy Bad Large Corporations - making the Tools & Equipment for all the Small Businesses - then the Craftsman Tools - The Simpson Test Equipment - the Toro Lawnmowers - the Echo weedwacker - the Gates Trailer Company - even to some extent the Ford Van...................they ALL used to have Competition - that improves Quality and Reduces Costs to the Small Businessman & Consumer

 

Today almost all the Brand Names you mentioned are still available for purchase but they are all made by the same Chinese Company who simply slaps a different name on the same Tool

 

Monopoly corporations are the primary reason that drug prices in the United States are higher than anywhere else in the world. Whether we like it or not, a company like Equifax can gather data about us, and then blithely take insufficient cybersecurity measures, exposing half the country to the risk of identity fraud, and then charge us for but a partial restoration of the security that we had before a major breach.

 

There has been an increase in the market power and concentration of a few firms in industry after industry, leading to an increase in prices relative to costs (in mark-ups). This lowers the standard of living every bit as much as it lowers workers’ wages.

 

Source - https://www.thenation.com/article/america-has-a-monopoly-problem-and-its-huge/

 

The Fewest Number of Corporations in 40 Years

 

The U.S. loses about 60,000 corporations per year and has lost about 1 million corporations since the Tax Reform Act of 1986.

 

These include the declining fortunes of rural America as farmers struggle against agriculture conglomerates. It includes the fading of heartland cities like Memphis and Minneapolis as corporate giants in coastal cities buy out local banks and businesses. It includes plunging rates of entrepreneurship and innovation as concentrated markets choke off independent businesses and new start-ups. It includes falling real wages, as decades of mergers have reduced the need for employers to compete to attract and retain workers.

 

Monopoly is a main driver of inequality, as profits concentrate more wealth in the hands of the few. The effects of monopoly enrage voters in their day-to-day lives, as they face the sky-high prices set by drug-company cartels and the abuses of cable providers, health insurers, and airlines. Monopoly provides much of the funds the wealthy use to distort American politics.

 

Source - https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/02/antimonopoly-big-business/514358/

 

 

 

 


So, what does a cartel look like in a different form?

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Message 16 of 34

When the good ideology of capitalism goes bad and becomes "crony capitalism"?

 


@Olderscout66 wrote:

Let's all turn on our BS filters and deal with reality.

 

A Corporation is a legal construct that allows people to invest in an enterprise and limit their liability to the amount invested. It is NOT a person in any sense of the word, and therefore has no "personality" good or bad.

 

The people running the Corporation, on the other hand, are entirely human and, in general, rich, greedy, rapacious, sexist and good friends with lots of others sharing those traits, which is the most significant factor in them holding the leadership position that makes them able to divert most of the profits created by the employees of the corporation into their own pockets, with the rest dribbling down to the next several levels of management while the owners and workers share a few crumbs.

 

It was not always that way. From 1936 until around 1970, the people running the companies passed most of the profits back to the workers who created them, and relied on the increased effort that the good treatment brought out in the workforce to increase the value of their ownership interest (stocks) AND to drive the economy to ever greater heights by stimulating CONSUMPTION.

 

Now Repuiblicans have done for the Corporate Oligarchs what Reagan did for their ancestors - eliminate the connection between their tax burden and the burden their operation places on the society as a whole.  The Corporate Oligarchs did with their huge tax scam windfall exactly what their ancestors did with the personal income taxscam windfall - THEY POCKETED IT! Either directly by giving themselves huge bonuses or by using the money to repurchase outstanding shares of company stock thereby artificially increasing the value of their personal holdings and options.

 

If you want the middle class to benefit from a tax change, increase taxes on the top 10% and reduce them on the bottom 90%, NOT visa-versa as the Republicans always do.

 

The absurd notion that somehow having Corporations contribute LESS will somehow benefit the society as a whole should by now have been consigned to the dustbin of stupid ideas by the overwhelming weight of evidence provided by actual experience.

 

But Republicans no longer live in the real world, having given that up for the mindless fog of Fox, Breightbart, Infowars and National Enquirer nonsense.

 

Time to remove Republicans from office and replace them with people dedicated to solving real problems for real people.

 


 

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Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

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Message 17 of 34

Corporations are structured to make a profit. Period. Only Google has "Don't be evil" in their mission statement and they ignore that when convenient. 

 

Corporations will keep people in virtual slavery, sell products which are known to be dangerous, and take advantage of anyone in order to make a profit. Like a tiger in the forest, they are neither good nor bad but operate under their own rules. 

 

Also like a tiger, they should have very strict laws on how they should be controlled.  That is all that is being asked.  laws to control the predators. 

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Message 18 of 34

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

 

One FIX might be TO pull a "MA BELL" on all those corporations and make them disappear EACH replaced by 50 - 100 - what - SMALLER entities.

 

Or DO you HAVE another solution?

 


 


Ma Bell - was renting the same $5 Telephone monthly to the same customer for 4 Decades.........................the Consumer had no say and no choice

 

One of the 50 Smaller Entiities came up with a Novel Approach - how about we allow the Consumer to buy the $5 phone and use it if they like for the next 4 decades for a total cost of $5

 

Phones even back then had few moving parts - were made out of Aircraft Grade Plastic and were virtually indestructable - I'm guessing my Parents Probably paid over $2000 in rental fees to Ma Bell for the phone they had in their house for 40 years

True - when Ma Bell was broken up,several other large corporations formed and the consumer benefited. But still large corporations and still the conditions you decry.

 

Do I have solutions - you bet........................get rid of all Incumbents in Congress - both Republican & Democrat who allow things like the Ma Bell Fleecing of America and the GOP Trump Tax Bill and the Fleecing of Social Security to have taken place

 

 

Keep voting out Incumbents until Elected Officials get the message & start working to improve the lives of All Americans

But, besides breaking up large corporations and allowing for new large corporations - what do you want them to do?

 

 


 

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Message 19 of 34

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@10BlueMule71 wrote:

With Amazon backing out of NYC - much talk on news stations about how small businesses hire more people and is the growth engine of our economy - and how big corporations are greedy and bad.

 

A while back I called a heating system repair company to come fix my house heater, small business, 8 employees the tech told me.

 

He pulled up in his Ford van, pulled out his Craftsman tools with Simpson test equipment, worked on my American Standard heater and replaced a bad circuit board made by Honeywell.

 

The landscaper and his helper pulled in with his Dodge truck, pulling his Gates trailer, rolled off his Toro lawnmower and all his Echo weedwacker and hedging equipment.

 

Even my dentist couldn't run his small business without all the big corporation equipment he uses.

 

Yes, small businesses employ more people, but majority couldn't exist without large corporation products and support - keep that in mind. Most products in your home and financial benefits from mortgages to pension funds depend on investments with larger companies.


I think you're missing the Point!

 

These Greedy Bad Large Corporations Are Not Good for the Small Businesses or the Consumer

 

Simply Because the ones we should be talking about are Monopolies and Destroying Competition

 

It there are 500 - Greedy Bad Large Corporations - making the Tools & Equipment for all the Small Businesses - then the Craftsman Tools - The Simpson Test Equipment - the Toro Lawnmowers - the Echo weedwacker - the Gates Trailer Company - even to some extent the Ford Van...................they ALL used to have Competition - that improves Quality and Reduces Costs to the Small Businessman & Consumer

 

Today almost all the Brand Names you mentioned are still available for purchase but they are all made by the same Chinese Company who simply slaps a different name on the same Tool

 

Monopoly corporations are the primary reason that drug prices in the United States are higher than anywhere else in the world. Whether we like it or not, a company like Equifax can gather data about us, and then blithely take insufficient cybersecurity measures, exposing half the country to the risk of identity fraud, and then charge us for but a partial restoration of the security that we had before a major breach.

 

There has been an increase in the market power and concentration of a few firms in industry after industry, leading to an increase in prices relative to costs (in mark-ups). This lowers the standard of living every bit as much as it lowers workers’ wages.

 

Source - https://www.thenation.com/article/america-has-a-monopoly-problem-and-its-huge/

 

The Fewest Number of Corporations in 40 Years

 

The U.S. loses about 60,000 corporations per year and has lost about 1 million corporations since the Tax Reform Act of 1986.

 

These include the declining fortunes of rural America as farmers struggle against agriculture conglomerates. It includes the fading of heartland cities like Memphis and Minneapolis as corporate giants in coastal cities buy out local banks and businesses. It includes plunging rates of entrepreneurship and innovation as concentrated markets choke off independent businesses and new start-ups. It includes falling real wages, as decades of mergers have reduced the need for employers to compete to attract and retain workers.

 

Monopoly is a main driver of inequality, as profits concentrate more wealth in the hands of the few. The effects of monopoly enrage voters in their day-to-day lives, as they face the sky-high prices set by drug-company cartels and the abuses of cable providers, health insurers, and airlines. Monopoly provides much of the funds the wealthy use to distort American politics.

 

Source - https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/02/antimonopoly-big-business/514358/

 

 

One FIX might be TO pull a "MA BELL" on all those corporations and make them disappear EACH replaced by 50 - 100 - what - SMALLER entities.

 

Or DO you HAVE another solution?

 


 


Ma Bell - was renting the same $5 Telephone monthly to the same customer for 4 Decades.........................the Consumer had no say and no choice

 

One of the 50 Smaller Entiities came up with a Novel Approach - how about we allow the Consumer to buy the $5 phone and use it if they like for the next 4 decades for a total cost of $5

 

Phones even back then had few moving parts - were made out of Aircraft Grade Plastic and were virtually indestructable - I'm guessing my Parents Probably paid over $2000 in rental fees to Ma Bell for the phone they had in their house for 40 years

 

Do I have solutions - you bet........................get rid of all Incumbents in Congress - both Republican & Democrat who allow things like the Ma Bell Fleecing of America and the GOP Trump Tax Bill and the Fleecing of Social Security to have taken place

 

Keep voting out Incumbents until Elected Officials get the message & start working to improve the lives of All Americans

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Message 20 of 34

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Let's all turn on our BS filters and deal with reality.

 

A Corporation is a legal construct that allows people to invest in an enterprise and limit their liability to the amount invested. It is NOT a person in any sense of the word, and therefore has no "personality" good or bad.

 

The people running the Corporation, on the other hand, are entirely human and, in general, rich, greedy, rapacious, sexist and good friends with lots of others sharing those traits, which is the most significant factor in them holding the leadership position that makes them able to divert most of the profits created by the employees of the corporation into their own pockets, with the rest dribbling down to the next several levels of management while the owners and workers share a few crumbs.

 

It was not always that way. From 1936 until around 1970, the people running the companies passed most of the profits back to the workers who created them, and relied on the increased effort that the good treatment brought out in the workforce to increase the value of their ownership interest (stocks) AND to drive the economy to ever greater heights by stimulating CONSUMPTION.

 

Now Repuiblicans have done for the Corporate Oligarchs what Reagan did for their ancestors - eliminate the connection between their tax burden and the burden their operation places on the society as a whole.  The Corporate Oligarchs did with their huge tax scam windfall exactly what their ancestors did with the personal income taxscam windfall - THEY POCKETED IT! Either directly by giving themselves huge bonuses or by using the money to repurchase outstanding shares of company stock thereby artificially increasing the value of their personal holdings and options.

 

If you want the middle class to benefit from a tax change, increase taxes on the top 10% and reduce them on the bottom 90%, NOT visa-versa as the Republicans always do.

 

The absurd notion that somehow having Corporations contribute LESS will somehow benefit the society as a whole should by now have been consigned to the dustbin of stupid ideas by the overwhelming weight of evidence provided by actual experience.

 

But Republicans no longer live in the real world, having given that up for the mindless fog of Fox, Breightbart, Infowars and National Enquirer nonsense.

 

Time to remove Republicans from office and replace them with people dedicated to solving real problems for real people.

 


Once you get rid of all those evil corporations, who is going to create the factories and organize the large numbers of service and/or technical people needed? It takes a lot of money to create those things used by the techs as mentioned the op - how will that happen without the corporations to invest, create, organize and produce?


Please show us - Exactly Where - anyone in this Thread is advocating - "GETTING RID OF ALL EVIL CORPORATIONS" ?

 

This is a Typical Ploy by this Author

 

Someone says - maybe we should take a look at how the system works - opens up discussion on Large Greedy Corporations

 

And now we are being asked to defend a suggestion No One Made

 

Getting Rid Of All Evil Corporations

 

The only thing missing so far is the Claims that anyone suggesting we change anything in the Status Quo is surely advocating for Marxist Communism - but I'm sure that Gun is being loaded as we speak.........................

 

 

Well, I can't imagine why anyone would want to keep "Those Greedy Bad Corporations".

 

So, what do you want to do with them?



Well, I can't imagine why anyone would believe a Corporation can express or espouse human emotions. ITS THE OLIGARCHS RUNNING THEM who need to be subjected to some serious attitude adjustment in the form of actual regulation and a restoration of the rational tax structure that allowed many of those same Corporations to participate in the expansion of the middle class and the constant shrinking of the gap between rich and poor.


Ah-ha, in your new world order I will have to go to a reeducation camp and these guys will be taxed into their reeducation.

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