Reply
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
132
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

132 Views
Message 1 of 34

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

 

And end corporate welfare.


That is a cliche. An incentive might be given to  company to come to town. Over the years they will pay much in taxes so an up front reduction is not a loss for the local. Add in the jobs that will be created and the tax revenue they will create and the term "corporate welfare" could be seen as no more than a political meme for the "us vs them" crowd.

 

Granted, it doesn't always work that way. Remember when Obama gave a half billion to Solyndra and the execs took the money and ran after bankruptcy. Was that corruption, was it paying off a buddy, was it ineptitude - who knows. My point is a blanket meme such as you offered requires a lot more thinking.


More thinking? How about a few studies? This article from Dec lists five, and they all came to the same conclusion:

 

"The scholarly literature on state and local incentives is as clear as can be hoped for from a diverse array of scholars studying a particular subject over time. They mostly conclude that incentive programs are ineffective."

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/421991-think-corporate-welfare-isnt-a-waste-read-these-studies

 

Where I live, people are getting sick and tired of having their property taxes raised because of incentives being handed out by the state and local governments. And now the R's in Congress have given them big tax cuts, but they haven't cut out the corporate subsidies - which is another form of corporate welfare. It's not a meme, it's very real, and the corporations pay lobbyists big bucks to keep it that way. I guess it takes a good bit of 'welfare' to keep the lobbyists on the ole payroll doesn't it?

 


I agree it can go wrong. But it can also go right by adding jobs to the community and the local tax base (I know - not guaranteed). But none of what the feds do effects your property taxes.

 

And let's be honest - this is not an R vs D thing historically.


It shouldn't be an R vs D thing, but the D's seem more willing than R's to stop the hand outs and raise their taxes. And while lobbyists do pour money into both parties, there is usually much more directed at R's who seem more friendly to their ideas.

 

We keep having local bond elections because the city and county need money for infrastructure, schools, affordable housing, and other public works projects. For years, the state has made spending cuts for education and public schools. (With more D's at the state house, we may see a change in education funding.) The feds have also made cuts in affordable housing and other grant monies. The state has also refused Medicaid expansion, and cut spending for health care and related services. This does, indeed, affect my property taxes as local communities have to make up for the shortfall in everything from grant money to health care services.  

 

It seems to be just fine with R's that corporations get all sorts of subsidies, incentives and tax breaks at the taxpayers (our) expense, but more likely to oppose tax dollars being spent for education, schools, and public works projects. Funding for public works also provides for jobs and stimulates the economy, possibly more so than corporate welfare because corporations tend to hoard their money at the top while funding for public works feeds directly into the economy. 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
132
Views
Highlighted
Treasured Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
157
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

157 Views
Message 2 of 34

@rk9152 wrote:

How they must treat their employees such as minimum wages, vacations, pensions....  Business practices such as predatory lending laws, product liability, health code standards and standardized contractual requirements. Generally, laws to cover any way a corporation which has not heart, soul, or morality can screw over the employee, customer, or minority stockholder.


Part of that sounds like you want the government take the position formerly held by the unions. Part of that is already on the books and part is quite ambiguous - "heart"?


I want America to be as successful as Canada, and the Scandinavian countries have been.  I would define that as economic security for citizens especially working citizens. I would prefer that unions fill the role but government legislation will do in a pinch.  Far better to adopt the Canadian and European models where unions and legislation complement each other. Were you implying that corporations actually had "heart"?

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
157
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
162
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

162 Views
Message 3 of 34

That is a cliche. An incentive might be given to  company to come to town.

 

Like using public money to build a stadium for a football team so they will come to your town or stay there.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/sports-stadiums-can-be-bad-cities/576334/

 

Sports Stadiums Are a Bad Deal for Cities

 

 

 

 

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
162
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
167
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

167 Views
Message 4 of 34

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

 

And end corporate welfare.


That is a cliche. An incentive might be given to  company to come to town. Over the years they will pay much in taxes so an up front reduction is not a loss for the local. Add in the jobs that will be created and the tax revenue they will create and the term "corporate welfare" could be seen as no more than a political meme for the "us vs them" crowd.

 

Granted, it doesn't always work that way. Remember when Obama gave a half billion to Solyndra and the execs took the money and ran after bankruptcy. Was that corruption, was it paying off a buddy, was it ineptitude - who knows. My point is a blanket meme such as you offered requires a lot more thinking.


More thinking? How about a few studies? This article from Dec lists five, and they all came to the same conclusion:

 

"The scholarly literature on state and local incentives is as clear as can be hoped for from a diverse array of scholars studying a particular subject over time. They mostly conclude that incentive programs are ineffective."

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/421991-think-corporate-welfare-isnt-a-waste-read-these-studies

 

Where I live, people are getting sick and tired of having their property taxes raised because of incentives being handed out by the state and local governments. And now the R's in Congress have given them big tax cuts, but they haven't cut out the corporate subsidies - which is another form of corporate welfare. It's not a meme, it's very real, and the corporations pay lobbyists big bucks to keep it that way. I guess it takes a good bit of 'welfare' to keep the lobbyists on the ole payroll doesn't it?

 


I agree it can go wrong. But it can also go right by adding jobs to the community and the local tax base (I know - not guaranteed). But none of what the feds do effects your property taxes.

 

And let's be honest - this is not an R vs D thing historically.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
167
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
167
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

167 Views
Message 5 of 34

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

 

One FIX might be TO pull a "MA BELL" on all those corporations and make them disappear EACH replaced by 50 - 100 - what - SMALLER entities.

 

Or DO you HAVE another solution?

 


 


Ma Bell - was renting the same $5 Telephone monthly to the same customer for 4 Decades.........................the Consumer had no say and no choice

 

One of the 50 Smaller Entiities came up with a Novel Approach - how about we allow the Consumer to buy the $5 phone and use it if they like for the next 4 decades for a total cost of $5

 

Phones even back then had few moving parts - were made out of Aircraft Grade Plastic and were virtually indestructable - I'm guessing my Parents Probably paid over $2000 in rental fees to Ma Bell for the phone they had in their house for 40 years

True - when Ma Bell was broken up,several other large corporations formed and the consumer benefited. But still large corporations and still the conditions you decry.

 

Do I have solutions - you bet........................get rid of all Incumbents in Congress - both Republican & Democrat who allow things like the Ma Bell Fleecing of America and the GOP Trump Tax Bill and the Fleecing of Social Security to have taken place

 

 

Keep voting out Incumbents until Elected Officials get the message & start working to improve the lives of All Americans

But, besides breaking up large corporations and allowing for new large corporations - what do you want them to do?

 

 


 


Well First I want the Incumbents Gone because like you have pointed out - they did not sincerely or effectively Fix the Problem of Monopolies..............................either through effective Anti-trust legislation or the Tax Code!

 

Got it, you want new people - to do what? Breaking up corporations - into what itsy-bitsy corporations? Are they capable of producing the products and services we need and want at a decent price? I don't know but I do know that without something with more depth than "throw the rascals out (without definition of who is a rascal) I can't get onboard with this simplistic scheme.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
167
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
173
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

173 Views
Message 6 of 34

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

 

And end corporate welfare.


That is a cliche. An incentive might be given to  company to come to town. Over the years they will pay much in taxes so an up front reduction is not a loss for the local. Add in the jobs that will be created and the tax revenue they will create and the term "corporate welfare" could be seen as no more than a political meme for the "us vs them" crowd.

 

Granted, it doesn't always work that way. Remember when Obama gave a half billion to Solyndra and the execs took the money and ran after bankruptcy. Was that corruption, was it paying off a buddy, was it ineptitude - who knows. My point is a blanket meme such as you offered requires a lot more thinking.


More thinking? How about a few studies? This article from Dec lists five, and they all came to the same conclusion:

 

"The scholarly literature on state and local incentives is as clear as can be hoped for from a diverse array of scholars studying a particular subject over time. They mostly conclude that incentive programs are ineffective."

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/421991-think-corporate-welfare-isnt-a-waste-read-these-studies

 

Where I live, people are getting sick and tired of having their property taxes raised because of incentives being handed out by the state and local governments. And now the R's in Congress have given them big tax cuts, but they haven't cut out the corporate subsidies - which is another form of corporate welfare. It's not a meme, it's very real, and the corporations pay lobbyists big bucks to keep it that way. I guess it takes a good bit of 'welfare' to keep the lobbyists on the ole payroll doesn't it?

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
173
Views
Highlighted
Treasured Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
179
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

179 Views
Message 7 of 34

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

 

One FIX might be TO pull a "MA BELL" on all those corporations and make them disappear EACH replaced by 50 - 100 - what - SMALLER entities.

 

Or DO you HAVE another solution?

 


 


Ma Bell - was renting the same $5 Telephone monthly to the same customer for 4 Decades.........................the Consumer had no say and no choice

 

One of the 50 Smaller Entiities came up with a Novel Approach - how about we allow the Consumer to buy the $5 phone and use it if they like for the next 4 decades for a total cost of $5

 

Phones even back then had few moving parts - were made out of Aircraft Grade Plastic and were virtually indestructable - I'm guessing my Parents Probably paid over $2000 in rental fees to Ma Bell for the phone they had in their house for 40 years

True - when Ma Bell was broken up,several other large corporations formed and the consumer benefited. But still large corporations and still the conditions you decry.

 

Do I have solutions - you bet........................get rid of all Incumbents in Congress - both Republican & Democrat who allow things like the Ma Bell Fleecing of America and the GOP Trump Tax Bill and the Fleecing of Social Security to have taken place

 

 

Keep voting out Incumbents until Elected Officials get the message & start working to improve the lives of All Americans

But, besides breaking up large corporations and allowing for new large corporations - what do you want them to do?

 

 


 


Well First I want the Incumbents Gone because like you have pointed out - they did not sincerely or effectively Fix the Problem of Monopolies..............................either through effective Anti-trust legislation or the Tax Code!

 

 

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
179
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
187
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

187 Views
Message 8 of 34

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

We do have many, many product safety laws on the books. Yes, they are in business to make a profit - remove that and who sees to the creation of the goods and services we want and need?

 

What sort of additional controls are you looking for?


How they must treat their employees such as minimum wages, vacations, pensions....  Business practices such as predatory lending laws, product liability, health code standards and standardized contractual requirements. Generally, laws to cover any way a corporation which has not heart, soul, or morality can screw over the employee, customer, or minority stockholder.


Part of that sounds like you want the government take the position formerly held by the unions. Part of that is already on the books and part is quite ambiguous - "heart"?

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
187
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
189
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

189 Views
Message 9 of 34

@MaVolta wrote:

@gruffstuff wrote:

Yes, small businesses employ more people, but majority couldn't exist without large corporation products and support 

 

Then just treat the large corporations the same as you do the small corporations.  I'm a corporation, I own a plumbing business, and I don't have as many as eight employees, I drive a GM workhorse  truck, I buy tools, and materials, lots of materials.

 

What I expect is  I pay taxes on gross receipts minus legitimate deductions, and considering the size of the US federal deficit and the Federal debt I think I should pay at least as much as my parents and grandparents did in the 1960s

 

We don't need more tax havens, tax breaks, or special treatment for special people.

 

We need large international corporations to pay taxes and compete in the local and global economy like small corporations do.

 


And end corporate welfare.


That is a cliche. An incentive might be given to  company to come to town. Over the years they will pay much in taxes so an up front reduction is not a loss for the local. Add in the jobs that will be created and the tax revenue they will create and the term "corporate welfare" could be seen as no more than a political meme for the "us vs them" crowd.

 

Granted, it doesn't always work that way. Remember when Obama gave a half billion to Solyndra and the execs took the money and ran after bankruptcy. Was that corruption, was it paying off a buddy, was it ineptitude - who knows. My point is a blanket meme such as you offered requires a lot more thinking.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
189
Views
Highlighted
Treasured Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
200
Views

Re: Those Greedy Bad Large Corporations ???

200 Views
Message 10 of 34

@rk9152 wrote:

We do have many, many product safety laws on the books. Yes, they are in business to make a profit - remove that and who sees to the creation of the goods and services we want and need?

 

What sort of additional controls are you looking for?


How they must treat their employees such as minimum wages, vacations, pensions....  Business practices such as predatory lending laws, product liability, health code standards and standardized contractual requirements. Generally, laws to cover any way a corporation which has not heart, soul, or morality can screw over the employee, customer, or minority stockholder.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
200
Views
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Users
Announcements

AARP Coronavirus Call-in Event

AARP will host a weekly, live Coronavirus Information Tele-Town Hall on Thursdays at 1 pm (ET). Learn more on AARP's Coronavirus Tele-Town Hall page and join us each week for the latest information.

Calling is toll-free. During the 90-minute live event, government experts will answer your questions and address health concerns related to COVID-19.