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Honored Social Butterfly

They’re sentencing me to death

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/25/medicaid-republican-healthcare-plan-affordable-care-...

 

‘They’re sentencing me to death’: Medicaid recipients on the Republican healthcare plan

 

The Guardian interviewed people from across the country who have relied on the coverage for life-saving assistance and what could happen if they lose it

 

On Thursday, Senate Republicans unveiled legislation that would satisfy a long-held campaign promise: the repeal of the Affordable Care Act (ACA). The plan would also achieve another GOP priority: deep cuts to Medicaid, a program that covers the healthcare needs of nearly one in five Americans.

 

The impact the Medicaid cuts will have on people, twenty three million of them, hard hearted at best, evil might be a better description.

Honored Social Butterfly

gruffstuff:  ‘They’re sentencing me to death’: Medicaid recipients on the Republican healthcare plan

 

 

 

Well, the Republicans swore there were death panels, they just didn't say it was them.

Honored Social Butterfly

pc, panjan, et al - You folks are overlooking the MARVELOUS benefit of the Republican version of Health Care Reform: Savings of nearly $14.4 BILLION each year for the next decade for those with incomes ABOVE $1,000,000.00p.a. There are only 236,883 individuals with such income, so the Republican Health Care Scheme will redistribute an average of $60,800 to each and every one of them every year.

 

All other savings identified in the Republican scheme will be handed to those with incomes between $250,000 and $1,000,000. This is IN ADDITION TO the YUGE tax cuts promised to the Oligarchs by Der Trumper and the GOPers.

 

The Republican health scheme will ONLY cost 10-20 thousand additional deaths from lack of medical care for the 99%, and virtually of them will be either too young or too old to be "producers" in our society. It will also close hundreds of rural clinics and hospitals, making it much easier for GOPers to deny Middle Class women access to reproductive health services, thus insuring a continuting supply of workers for the minimum wage jobs Republicans will create.

 

And that in a nutshell is the Republican Scheme for Health Care: Billions for the Drones, Death for the Workers. Hope all you Trumpettes have arranged for your families - kids and parents - to belong to the Drone group.

 

Those figures on "savings" come from the Joint Committee on Taxation, a bipartisan congressional panel.

 

Honored Social Butterfly

I am sure most (the thinking ones) know that there are no cuts to medicare proposed. 

 

And I am sure that the same people know that Obama drastically overloaded the Medicare rolls.  

 

And, finally, I am sure those same people know that Obamacare was never intended to work. It was supposed to create such a disaster that the cry would go out for socialized medicine. That is the situation the Republicans are stuck with while the Dems only contribution is more attack ads about "dying in the street".

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@rk9152 wrote:

I am sure most (the thinking ones) know that there are no cuts to medicare proposed. 

 

And I am sure that the same people know that Obama drastically overloaded the Medicare rolls.  

 

And, finally, I am sure those same people know that Obamacare was never intended to work. It was supposed to create such a disaster that the cry would go out for socialized medicine. That is the situation the Republicans are stuck with while the Dems only contribution is more attack ads about "dying in the street".



@rk9152 wrote:

I am sure most (the thinking ones) know that there are no cuts to medicare proposed. 

 

And I am sure that the same people know that Obama drastically overloaded the Medicare rolls.  

 

And, finally, I am sure those same people know that Obamacare was never intended to work. It was supposed to create such a disaster that the cry would go out for socialized medicine. That is the situation the Republicans are stuck with while the Dems only contribution is more attack ads about "dying in the street".


Bealiving is seeing/!!!!!!!!!    so the CBO is wrong says who?  they are not cutting Medicaid says  who?  YOu?   There has to be an epidemic that I don't know about  

no name
Honored Social Butterfly


rk9152 wrote: 

 

And I am sure that the same people know that Obama drastically overloaded the Medicare rolls.  HUH?  Another "Dittohead" fact?  Or was it Bretbart or Fox?



"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

I am sure most (the thinking ones) know that there are no cuts to medicare proposed. 

 

In the Republican plan, those over 46 years old will see their premiums for health care insurance raise much more than they have been rising, perhaps doubling or tripling. Those already on Medicare will be caused to spend from $5000 to $10,200 more per year on out of pocket medical expenses. Might not be called "a cut" but ............

 

And I am sure that the same people know that Obama drastically overloaded the Medicare rolls.

 

"Drastically overloaded"?  Please explain. 

 

And, finally, I am sure those same people know that Obamacare was never intended to work. It was supposed to create such a disaster that the cry would go out for socialized medicine. That is the situation the Republicans are stuck with while the Dems only contribution is more attack ads about "dying in the street".

 

Please explain the "never intended to work" thingy. The Republicans inherited a plan (the ACA) that could have been improved upon. Instead they choose politics as usual and the need to satisfy the 1%. Thus, they offer a plan which gives huge tax cuts to the wealthiest at the expense of 20 million losing their health care, places higher premiums for insurance on those over 40 years old, and much higher out of pocket costs to those already on Medicare.


 


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Republicans have spent the last 30 years insuring nobody does anything to regulate the health care system which might interfer with profits.

 

As a result we pay twice the next highest plan and receive outcomes ranked 37th, behind not only all of the Industrialized World but behind such economic powerhouses as San Marino, Cyprus and Andorra.

 

In point of fact, the Republicans offered a plan virtually identical to Obamacare in 1993 as their alternative to the Universal coverage single-payer plan offered by Clinton. They've had 25 years to improve on their plan, and instead only managed to find ways to benefit the Oligarchs and damage the 99%.

 

Their plan is so hate and harm filled it seems likely they never intended it to pass, but needed to placate their rabid base with a plausible attempt to kill Obamacare to help them in the 2018 elections. Hopefully, even the Republican base will be smart enough to see thru this ruse and elect a Congress that will move America above 37th position for our health care system.

Honored Social Butterfly

To my liberal posters... you lose credability when you lead with "we're gonna die" argument. Who doesn't understand the finite nature of life and budgets? I'm sorry to inform everyone that health care isn't free. There is no such thing as free on this planet. Health care is not a right but a necessity. 

 

I want everyone to live as long as they want to. No one I know wishes for anyone to die, unless it's time to die. Again life on this earth is finite. Time is what we have before the sentence is bestowed. Who doesn't understand this?

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 


Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
Honored Social Butterfly


@Fishslayer666 wrote:

 

To my liberal posters... you lose credability when you lead with "we're gonna die" argument. Who doesn't understand the finite nature of life and budgets? I'm sorry to inform everyone that health care isn't free. There is no such thing as free on this planet. Health care is not a right but a necessity. 

 

I want everyone to live as long as they want to. No one I know wishes for anyone to die, unless it's time to die. Again life on this earth is finite. Time is what we have before the sentence is bestowed. Who doesn't understand this?

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 


Oh Dear!!!!  again, for your info. You are not speaking to a liberal. but I imagine that in your mind, because I don't agree with you, I am.
Now. I do post differently that most of the posters here.  You think that having health insurance is not a right. I am so glad that the rest of the world disagrees with you, but, they have always been a lot more civilized. than many parts of this country.

Now, I will applaud the fact that your wishes will become true as of next year. over 18,Million peopla according to the CBO will loose their insurances . and that will happen right before elections.
I would most definitely tell all the people in this forumg to call all their Republican congress and Senators and tell them how thrilled you are that they are voting for any of this.
It is difficualt to understand for many, that the majority of Americans only respond when things touch them directly. And all of this needs to touch them directly in order for them to start to wake up.
So, Yea!!!!!  please do pass that Health Care bill.  !!!!! pretty please.

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@Fishslayer666 wrote:

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 

 

That doesn't sound like the same rhetoric coming from Conservatives when Obama was President.  Hypocrisy?


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly

FISHSLAYER--While some will suffer reduction in quality of life--a horrible sentence in itself, which is abhorrent, it is not hyperbole to say that many will die.  There are many of all ages, innocent chilredn, babies, teens, young adults, and the elderly, who will be unable to get life sustaining meds and medical care.  Those forced to leave nursing homes will suffer from both insufficent medical care, meds, and other life sustaining services, none of which a loved one can provide.  Yes, FS, people who would have otherwise lived, will suffer and die, there is no way to deny that.  There is also no way to support those who are actively working to see that this will happen. 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Honored Social Butterfly


@Fishslayer666 wrote:

To my liberal posters... you lose credability when you lead with "we're gonna die" argument. Who doesn't understand the finite nature of life and budgets? I'm sorry to inform everyone that health care isn't free. There is no such thing as free on this planet. Health care is not a right but a necessity. 

 

I want everyone to live as long as they want to. No one I know wishes for anyone to die, unless it's time to die. Again life on this earth is finite. Time is what we have before the sentence is bestowed. Who doesn't understand this?

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 


Everyone on this forum knows what you are saying is the truth...  Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS and refuse to seek professional help.  You know, the old,  you can lead a horse to water thing...

 

Life... It happens... and then there is life in eternity...  The choice is ours.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 

VIMTSTL
Trusted Social Butterfly


@jimc91 wrote:

@Fishslayer666 wrote:

To my liberal posters... you lose credability when you lead with "we're gonna die" argument. Who doesn't understand the finite nature of life and budgets? I'm sorry to inform everyone that health care isn't free. There is no such thing as free on this planet. Health care is not a right but a necessity. 

 

I want everyone to live as long as they want to. No one I know wishes for anyone to die, unless it's time to die. Again life on this earth is finite. Time is what we have before the sentence is bestowed. Who doesn't understand this?

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 


Everyone on this forum knows what you are saying is the truth...  Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS and refuse to seek professional help.  You know, the old,  you can lead a horse to water thing...

 

Life... It happens... and then there is life in eternity...  The choice is ours.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 


So, 666...the Declaration of Independence clearly and unambiguously states that Life IS a right.  Amendment V of the Constitution prohibits anyone from being deprived of Life, Liberty or Property without due process of law.  Amendment I through Amendment X are commonly referred to as THE BILL OF RIGHTS.  Amendment IV addresses what States may and may not do regarding citizens similar to what Amendment V says. 

 

You say health care IS a necessity.  Logic forces me to presume you think health care is a necessity because without it Life will not continue when the body, all by itself, is not up to the job.  That correct?  You then say Life is NOT a RIGHT. Well, why isn't it?

 

IF payment cannot be extracted from the sick or injured person AND that person will die without health care, must that person die?   Yes or No will suffice.  IF that persons death because you will do nothing to prevent it is not acceptable to you...what do you propose?  The ER, Welfare, Medicaid, etc. etc  are means of doing that but are just another aspect of how health care for the indigent occurs. It ALL gets paid for, much of it through the government's tax system in one way or another.  NOTHING is free, health care included. Somebody pays. 

 

When you are done explaining why Life is NOT a right please apply that rationale to the 'Right to Life' argument relative to the unborn.  

 

And I don't want to neglect you jimc.  Since you declare the 666 pronouncements truth, perhaps you should assist with all those explanations.  You say, "Life...it happens...and then there is life in eternity...the choice is ours."  Profound, to be sure.  But I don't see how that applies to health care here in this particular existence.  Does that mean it [Life here] is meaningless and to be totally ignored?  I'm curious.  Could you take a stab at how that can possibly involve a choice other than the one you make?  You do have a rational answer for that, I trust.  Belief won't cut it, you see?  Belief is confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof, hence non-rational.

 

So, as well-informed and  'compassionate' examples of the 'conservative' mind-set, you must have constructive answers for all those questions  You do, don't you? 

Honored Social Butterfly


@umbarch64 wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

@Fishslayer666 wrote:

To my liberal posters... you lose credability when you lead with "we're gonna die" argument. Who doesn't understand the finite nature of life and budgets? I'm sorry to inform everyone that health care isn't free. There is no such thing as free on this planet. Health care is not a right but a necessity. 

 

I want everyone to live as long as they want to. No one I know wishes for anyone to die, unless it's time to die. Again life on this earth is finite. Time is what we have before the sentence is bestowed. Who doesn't understand this?

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 


Everyone on this forum knows what you are saying is the truth...  Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS and refuse to seek professional help.  You know, the old,  you can lead a horse to water thing...

 

Life... It happens... and then there is life in eternity...  The choice is ours.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 


So, 666...the Declaration of Independence clearly and unambiguously states that Life IS a right.  Amendment V of the Constitution prohibits anyone from being deprived of Life, Liberty or Property without due process of law.  Amendment I through Amendment X are commonly referred to as THE BILL OF RIGHTS.  Amendment IV addresses what States may and may not do regarding citizens similar to what Amendment V says. 

 

You say health care IS a necessity.  Logic forces me to presume you think health care is a necessity because without it Life will not continue when the body, all by itself, is not up to the job.  That correct?  You then say Life is NOT a RIGHT. Well, why isn't it?

 

IF payment cannot be extracted from the sick or injured person AND that person will die without health care, must that person die?   Yes or No will suffice.  IF that persons death because you will do nothing to prevent it is not acceptable to you...what do you propose?  The ER, Welfare, Medicaid, etc. etc  are means of doing that but are just another aspect of how health care for the indigent occurs. It ALL gets paid for, much of it through the government's tax system in one way or another.  NOTHING is free, health care included. Somebody pays. 

 

When you are done explaining why Life is NOT a right please apply that rationale to the 'Right to Life' argument relative to the unborn.  

 

And I don't want to neglect you jimc.  Since you declare the 666 pronouncements truth, perhaps you should assist with all those explanations.  You say, "Life...it happens...and then there is life in eternity...the choice is ours."  Profound, to be sure.  But I don't see how that applies to health care here in this particular existence.  Does that mean it [Life here] is meaningless and to be totally ignored?  I'm curious.  Could you take a stab at how that can possibly involve a choice other than the one you make?  You do have a rational answer for that, I trust.  Belief won't cut it, you see?  Belief is confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof, hence non-rational.

 

So, as well-informed and  'compassionate' examples of the 'conservative' mind-set, you must have constructive answers for all those questions  You do, don't you? 



"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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@umbarch64 wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

@Fishslayer666 wrote:

To my liberal posters... you lose credability when you lead with "we're gonna die" argument. Who doesn't understand the finite nature of life and budgets? I'm sorry to inform everyone that health care isn't free. There is no such thing as free on this planet. Health care is not a right but a necessity. 

 

I want everyone to live as long as they want to. No one I know wishes for anyone to die, unless it's time to die. Again life on this earth is finite. Time is what we have before the sentence is bestowed. Who doesn't understand this?

 

Shouldn't it be more about the "quality of life" then I'm sentence to death? 


Everyone on this forum knows what you are saying is the truth...  Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS and refuse to seek professional help.  You know, the old,  you can lead a horse to water thing...

 

Life... It happens... and then there is life in eternity...  The choice is ours.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 


So, 666...the Declaration of Independence clearly and unambiguously states that Life IS a right.  Amendment V of the Constitution prohibits anyone from being deprived of Life, Liberty or Property without due process of law.  Amendment I through Amendment X are commonly referred to as THE BILL OF RIGHTS.  Amendment IV addresses what States may and may not do regarding citizens similar to what Amendment V says. 

 

You say health care IS a necessity.  Logic forces me to presume you think health care is a necessity because without it Life will not continue when the body, all by itself, is not up to the job.  That correct?  You then say Life is NOT a RIGHT. Well, why isn't it?

Your logic is "yours", not mine... to which I disagree.  I never said life is not a right because it is. Health care is not a right it is a necessity there is a difference... philosophical for sure, but different.  Why? IMO right come frrom God not man.  This can get us off track but that is my belief and our founders felt the same way.

 

IF payment cannot be extracted from the sick or injured person AND that person will die without health care, must that person die?   Yes or No will suffice. 

 

no

 

 

IF that persons death because you will do nothing to prevent it is not acceptable to you...what do you propose?  The ER, Welfare, Medicaid, etc. etc  are means of doing that but are just another aspect of how health care for the indigent occurs. It ALL gets paid for, much of it through the government's tax system in one way or another.  NOTHING is free, health care included. Somebody pays. 

 

I believe my "no" adresses this... but I would like to add there are hard realities about medical proceedures. If your obese , smoke and drink and you can only be saved by a heart transplant, guess what?

 

When you are done explaining why Life is NOT a right please apply that rationale to the 'Right to Life' argument relative to the unborn.  

 

See... you took my clear position of right vs necessity and changed it. Again !

The right to life vs health care is very different. This should not be that hard to understand. I understand your position. You believe health care is a right, I do not. Please do not change my words. 

 

Life is sustainable without health care... our human history proves that , However length of life is possiblly increased and quality of life is enhanced with health care, in our modern world. 

 

And I don't want to neglect you jimc.  Since you declare the 666 pronouncements truth, perhaps you should assist with all those explanations.  You say, "Life...it happens...and then there is life in eternity...the choice is ours."  Profound, to be sure.  But I don't see how that applies to health care here in this particular existence.  Does that mean it [Life here] is meaningless and to be totally ignored?  I'm curious.  Could you take a stab at how that can possibly involve a choice other than the one you make?  You do have a rational answer for that, I trust.  Belief won't cut it, you see?  Belief is confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof, hence non-rational.

 

So, as well-informed and  'compassionate' examples of the 'conservative' mind-set, you must have constructive answers for all those questions  You do, don't you? 


 


Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
Honored Social Butterfly

FS-- In millions of cases throughout America, healthcare and the right to life are linked as many, without appropriate healthcare will die.

No matter how anyone wants to sidestep that, that's the truth. That's the dead truth.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Honored Social Butterfly

@umbarch64--Thank you so much for your awesome, insightful, reality based post. It was truly one of those that cause me to say "WOW," upon completion. Thank you again.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Honored Social Butterfly

Amazing !!!  If you're not Far Right , then you're automatically accused of being a Far Left Liberal. No room for middle ground with today's Far Right !!!

Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

Amazing !!!  If you're not Far Right , then you're automatically accused of being a Far Left Liberal. No room for middle ground with today's Far Right !!!


You're absolutely correct, mandm.  If one disagree's with anything from the far-right extremists, they attack with the ad hominem claim, "you're a Liberal"; even moderate Republicans.  We can thank Limblah, Hannity, the Tea Party, the Koch Bro's, etc.  This is the facism of the far right.  It tis what it tis....


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Silver Conversationalist

Hi Jim - You got me with this one: " Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS". I gooled it and got : "Total dissolved solids (TDS) is a measure of the combined content of all inorganic and organic substances contained in a liquid in molecular, ionized or micro-granular (colloidal sol) suspended form." Are you saying that the liberals have somehow ingested too much of dissolved solids - and if so - what sort of 'professional help ' should they seek?

Honored Social Butterfly


@wilful wrote:
Hi Jim - You got me with this one: " Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS". I gooled it and got : "Total dissolved solids (TDS) is a measure of the combined content of all inorganic and organic substances contained in a liquid in molecular, ionized or micro-granular (colloidal sol) suspended form." Are you saying that the liberals have somehow ingested too much of dissolved solids - and if so - what sort of 'professional help ' should they seek?


Sorry... Should have included this... @wilful

 

 

 
Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a satirical psychological diagnosis used to explain the hysterical reaction and belligerent behavior of people, directed towards anything related to President Donald Trump, as pertaining to his presidency.
 
It isn't intended to be a logical argument, rather a jab at another individual's excessive emotional reactions as well as aggressive physical displays. It is an ad hominem argument, not a strawman argument as suggested by another definition.
 
"After watching the Democrats humiliate themselves with their foul behavior towards Neil Gorsuch during his confirmation hearings, I came to the assessment that they are suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome."
 
 
via giphy
 
 
 
 
 
VIMTSTL
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@jimc91 wrote:

@wilful wrote:
Hi Jim - You got me with this one: " Many of liberals on this board are suffering from TDS". I gooled it and got : "Total dissolved solids (TDS) is a measure of the combined content of all inorganic and organic substances contained in a liquid in molecular, ionized or micro-granular (colloidal sol) suspended form." Are you saying that the liberals have somehow ingested too much of dissolved solids - and if so - what sort of 'professional help ' should they seek?


Sorry... Should have included this... @wilful

 

 

 
Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a satirical psychological diagnosis...
 
Ohhhhh, it's satire.  And here many thought you were upset with Ted Danson....

"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly

Some refer to TDS - trump derangement syndrome.

 

However, trump's continually falling approval and constantly rising disapproval is an indication that TSC - trump sucks certainty - is far more active.

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly

jimc--Or maybe it's a legitimate reaction to an incompetent heartless authoritarian fool who is destroying this country.  Watch real news sources, instead of ones known world wide for spreading lies and hatred, and you will learn the truth.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Honored Social Butterfly



pc poted..

jimc--Or maybe it's a legitimate reaction to an incompetent heartless authoritarian fool who is destroying this country. Watch real news sources, instead of ones known world wide for spreading lies and hatred, and you will learn the truth.
===========================================================



Trump Derangement Syndrome

Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a satirical psychological diagnosis used to explain the hysterical reaction and belligerent behavior of people, directed towards anything related to President Donald Trump, as pertaining to his presidency.
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Wilful- If liberals have ingested too many dissolved solids, it may be because of trumps ridiculous roll back of the EPA regulations. On the other hand,  it may just be all the crap we've had to ingest from the idiot in chief and his minions since trump took office.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Honored Social Butterfly


@Panjandrum wrote:

gruffstuff:  ‘They’re sentencing me to death’: Medicaid recipients on the Republican healthcare plan

 

 

 

Well, the Republicans swore there were death panels, they just didn't say it was them.


Yep, when the Republicans put forth a health care plan that takes away health care from seniors and children then they are the "death panels".


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Around 40% of what Medicaid pays for medical care expenses are payments to care for the elderly and for children.

 

20.7% of what Medicaid pays out is for senior care. 19.4% of what they pay out is for children's care. That total is a whopping 40% plus.

 

The Republican health care plan is heartless and bad for America.

 

Sherrod Brown claims higher numbers but links within the following article support the figures I have listed::

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/12/sherrod-brown/sherrod-brown-says-elde...


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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