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Honored Social Butterfly

The "Blue Flu" Seems to Have Hit ATL; Is there a Cure or Vaccine?

And it seems to be contagious to this select population regardless of color or ethnicity.

Do they feel that they have been left between a rock and a hard place?

They want to do a good job but yet they are questioning their training especially when they feel that their own lives could be put into jeopardy from perhaps their own actions or the actions of others.

 

Some definitely seem to be rethinking their choice of careers because they aren't sure anymore of what to do in certain situations.

 

There is no doubt that America has a deeply problematic relationship with its police forces, and it is due, in large part, to the issues of systemic racism that have been left uncured for decades. But as more officers start calling in sick to protest the public’s and the government’s reactions, the “Blue Flu” might be America’s next pandemic.

 

And for that affliction, and at this moment in time, a vaccine might be incredibly complicated to develop.

 

FORBES 06/18/2020 - As Atlanta Police Protest, Is “Blue Flu” The Next Pandemic? 

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The DA did not "clobber" their process.  He filed charges against someone who shot an unarmed man in the back. So, we have a process for that too.  I believe it is called the American justice system and cops not showing up for work or resigning should have no impact on that. 

 

It sure sounds like the citizens of Atlanta are not happy with the way their police department is operating. These cops seem to be creating a short term problem and providing the opportunity for a long term solution.  Change up the training and screening programs then let the cops quit or fire the ones who don't show up for work.  In two years, they will have effective policing without shooing black citizens in the back for getting drunk and sleeping in the drive through lane. 

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@Richva wrote:

The DA did not "clobber" their process.  He filed charges against someone who shot an unarmed man in the back. So, we have a process for that too.  I believe it is called the American justice system and cops not showing up for work or resigning should have no impact on that. 

 

It sure sounds like the citizens of Atlanta are not happy with the way their police department is operating. These cops seem to be creating a short term problem and providing the opportunity for a long term solution.  Change up the training and screening programs then let the cops quit or fire the ones who don't show up for work.  In two years, they will have effective policing without shooing black citizens in the back for getting drunk and sleeping in the drive through lane. 


Our justice system is one of investigation and where the action is done in the course of one's job in dealing with lawbreakers; a determination has to be made as to the justification or criminalization of the event.  When the investigation is one where the beginning question is whether or not a crime has been committed, it is paramount that the investigatory arm gathers everything -

 

Who investigates crimes - even the horrendous ones - the investigatory arm of the police, sheriff office,  the GBI perhaps in combination with the DA Investigators.  In this case, since it involved the police, the GBI began the investigation.  They released several of the initial videos and have more.  They do not interpret the evidence end result; they gather it and the investigation leads where they look from here to there -  Once the evidence is gathered, the DA office's determines the next step because it is based on the preponderance of evidence.  The case is then brought to the Grand Jury for this group of citizen to determine if there is enough evidence to seek a conviction of the charges - from higher to lower -  in a trial.

"Bill or NO Bill" -  Ever been on a Grand Jury? 

 

Since the DA's office is a politically based one; the investigatory aspect needs to be a joint effort in this regards.

 

The blue flu doesn't have any impact on the case - they are only protesting, for lack of a better word, what they deem to be a concern of how any of their own personal actions could be construde as criminal by this type of speedy, perhaps incomplete investigatory action and charges.  Case in point - the cop that held those teenagers at gun point when he was investigating that they had a gun.  Case in point - the (2)  college students during the protest.

 

You are probably right that it will blow over and possibly more will resign or they will return to their job.  Morale to say the least is low - did you see where the Police Foundation cut them all a check for $ 500 to give them a little boost. 

 

Citizens can be as unhappy as they want - we don't live in a society where the ones that yell the loudest get their way.  Mobs don't rule; justice does.

 

 

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Gail said: You see, I don't think THIS "Blue Flu" has much to do with race at all - I think it has more to do with the way the APD officers - be them of whatever race or ethnicity - view how their actions could be construed by those who might not agree with their actions in hindsight.  IOW, who has their backs when the "stuff" hits the fan.

 

I am not sure that allowing a cop to gun  down an unarmed man in the process of running away is "having their backs" regardless of race.  That is one issue and the separate issue is that this only seems to happen to members of the black race. 

 

I am sure there are grievance procedures within the police contract. Why have they not used those instead of taking an illegal walkout? 

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@Richva wrote:

Gail said: You see, I don't think THIS "Blue Flu" has much to do with race at all - I think it has more to do with the way the APD officers - be them of whatever race or ethnicity - view how their actions could be construed by those who might not agree with their actions in hindsight.  IOW, who has their backs when the "stuff" hits the fan.

 

I am not sure that allowing a cop to gun  down an unarmed man in the process of running away is "having their backs" regardless of race.  That is one issue and the separate issue is that this only seems to happen to members of the black race. 

 

I am sure there are grievance procedures within the police contract. Why have they not used those instead of taking an illegal walkout? 


Your 2nd question is at the crux of the blue flu and the resignations of some officers and Chief Shields - they did and do have a procedure, and it is that procedure that has been clobbered by the DA that has them upset. 

 

This is not about race.  It is about police officers not being assured that their scrutinized actions and their due process procedures are being upheld by the DA.    They think there is a rush to judgement and filing of charges by the DA. before the GBI and other investigatory agencies have finished their job and presented their findings to the DA for whatever their action - charges or not.

 

The DA is also in the midst of a very politicized re-election and has several complaints and potential charges against him - so some think he is grandstanding with the Brooks case as well as some others like the (2) college student case that happened earlier this month.

 

A person acting violently is always a dangerous, threatening situation with or without a weapon because nobody knows what their next action might be and anything can become a weapon, even a deadly weapon.

 

 

 

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This happens every time there is a shift toward equal treatment in our society.  We all remember when the process of integration happened in white neighborhoods . A black family moved in and the neighboring houses went up for sale. Realtors were accused of "block busting" to generate more business. 

 

Blacks were allowed to become firemen and the white firemen protested. 

 

America is a country of freedoms. One of those is the freedom to be replaced if you will not execute your duties.   

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I would really like to believe that our police officers are made of sterner stuff.  It's very disconcerting if they are that fragile that they cannot withstand public scrutiny.  Either they believe in their mission, or they don't.  

 

I suppose this might weed out the weak ones, or the ones who were only in the profession for the power and the glory.

Honored Social Butterfly


@ManicProgressive wrote:

I would really like to believe that our police officers are made of sterner stuff.  It's very disconcerting if they are that fragile that they cannot withstand public scrutiny.  Either they believe in their mission, or they don't.  

 

I suppose this might weed out the weak ones, or the ones who were only in the profession for the power and the glory.


Any job where you go thru periods of a stressful time takes its toll.  You may have to work more hours, you may have to deal with many more people of all different kinds of mindsets, you have to sometimes even be a mind reader to know what is the next move of people.

 

So, let's see, during the last 25 days or so, APD has been taking care of crowd control during the protest, they have dealt with many looters and those who vandalized and destroyed property, sometimes creating very dangerous conditions for the public - Because of the racial overtones or basis of the protest, everything that they have done, justified or not, has been scrutinized and much of it has been criticized.

 

The Mayor orders them to crowd control - so they try to direct where the protestors go and keep them off the interstate and into areas where traffic has been removed or severely reduced.  How exactly do we think that this should be done especially if the crowd is not complying?

 

They have dealt with people that want to run them down with vehicles.   They have been spat upon, yelled at, sometimes hit, a few have been maimed.

 

Then the Mayor sets a curfew and says that everybody should be off the street by a certain time.

Again, if the people aren't compliant or if they have other things in mind - how should the police under orders do this?

 

They have been criticized for using teargas, pepper spray,  "rubberized" projectiles, wearing armored gear, pushing and shoving, not rendering assistance when others think they should.

 

They have been accused of using too much force or to little force.  They have made too many arrest or not enough arrest.

 

They have been accused of being racist.  Guess that would be biased if the cop is of the same race.

 

All the while, they are having to deal with the other normal stuff like drunks, homeless people, kids selling water or washing windshields in a line of traffic.  Vagrants, revenue crimes like selling "loosies"  or an unlicensed club selling liquor, people who are on all sorts of different drugs - some that produce violence or others that make them lethargic, or handling OD situations. Writing tickets for traffic stuff or handling the results of the head on collision and all that good stuff.  

 

The robberies, many times armed or violent in nature, rapes, domestic disputes, again many times violent.  The drive-by shooting where people are killed or maimed or just scared to death.  The parties that get out of hand.

 

Don't know about other places but in Atlanta, we also have interstate shooting - and people die just because others either are just bad, mean people or the traffic gets the best of them.

 

And they have been ordered to execute no-knock warrants and somebody opens fire on them and they fire back out of defense.  No matter that the were just the followers of the action.

 

Yea, sterner stuff - they just need more of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

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The "Blue Flu" Seems to Have Hit ATL; Is there a Cure or Vaccine?

 

If the police have so many extra sick days they can use them to make political statements then the cure might be less paid sick days. 

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@GailL1 , Can you blame them?  

 

As usual, wishy washy upper level management that live by situational ethics with no clear mission statement or operational protocol.  

 

Yeah, I would take early retirement if I could or consider a different career choice.  

 

Nobody put up with being the scape goat for others every single day!

 

 A great illustration is “ROBO COP”

 

Who enjoys being abused ?

 

 

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@jimc91 wrote:

 

 

Who enjoys being abused ?

 

 


The Black community certainly doesn't, thus the global protests !!!!


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Jim Said: 

As usual, wishy washy upper level management that live by situational ethics with no clear mission statement or operational protocol.  

 

I am pretty sure "Don't Kill Unarmed Civilians" is in those operational protocols someplace. I guess that is situational ethics. If the guy is running away, is not armed, has not committed a felony.........do not shoot him in the back. 

 

Is this too tough for the regressive movement to understand?   

 

 

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@jimc91 wrote:

@GailL1 , Can you blame them?  Sure!  What right-wing zealot wants to be held accountable for their actions?

 

As usual, wishy washy upper level management that live by situational ethics with no clear mission statement or operational protocol.  Wrong!  The Police Chief was clear, so she resigned.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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@jimc91  Sorry, but  being  very familiar with cops as I have stated I can tell you that   most of them followed the policies that were given. and acted as professionals as they could. 
But I can tell you one thing that I am sure of. Neither my daughter or her husband would have shot anyone black asian or white in the back as they were running away. 
So many of us do understand and put ourselves in their   shoes. .
Many times  they have to take actions that only take seconds to make and second guessing them is not a fair way either.
But like I have stated, there are good cops and bad cops like everything in life. and in all of us.                

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Take a page from Trump's playbook.  when Colin K was kneeling in peaceful protest, he recommended the NFL owners fire any players who did that.   Doctor's slips for everybody or replace them with an officer of color. 

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    The RW / police folks complaining are actually proving the Black Americans point.    AJC cops take a walk ( a paid walk / protest) and the crime rate does not change.     Hilariously, the Police Union says that this is not a walk-out, because he also knows that they are shooting themselves in proverbial foot.  OOPs, the PU just got a budget cut....booyah! 

 

     Next up was the defacing of an Arthur Ashe statue in Richmond, VA - the RW which has spent days saying that all the vandalism , etc was made by the Black LIves Matter peaceful marchers  have now proved that NO indeed it was the "whites matter" gang....they were so stupid that they even made claims to their action.   

 

    Goodness but these RW folks are really, really stupid.  

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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@afisher wrote:

    The RW / police folks complaining are actually proving the Black Americans point.    AJC cops take a walk ( a paid walk / protest) and the crime rate does not change.     Hilariously, the Police Union says that this is not a walk-out, because he also knows that they are shooting themselves in proverbial foot.  OOPs, the PU just got a budget cut....booyah! 

 

     Next up was the defacing of an Arthur Ashe statue in Richmond, VA - the RW which has spent days saying that all the vandalism , etc was made by the Black LIves Matter peaceful marchers  have now proved that NO indeed it was the "whites matter" gang....they were so stupid that they even made claims to their action.   

 

    Goodness but these RW folks are really, really stupid.  


I apologize but your post is confusing to me, an elder caucasian female. I grew up in a very "integrated" neighborhood; I didn't even know race mattered until Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated and our neighbors told us of his sacrifices... we mourned with them, and prayed for everyone. We couldn't go to school, 5 houses away, due to lock-down; we all took cookies to the national guard at our high-school: we were Asian, Black, Caucasian, Hispanic, Third-world...

 

They (national guard) were Asian, Black, Caucasian, Hispanic, Third-world...

 

Why, 50 years later, is this still an issue? I thought we tried in the 70s to end racism and hate; I think we were on the right path...

 

Unfortunately a racist, sexist, rapist was elected as president a few years ago. I don't know how that happened; I was not a part of that.

 

I don't know how to end the current strife we are in but appreciate any helpful information. I just do not want this to continue...

 

#StaySafe

 

#PrayForShay


#VegasStrong
Phil Harris, actor and showman, to John Fogerty of CCR: “If I’d known I’d live this long, I’d have taken better care of myself.”
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@WebWiseWoman wrote:

 

Why, 50 years later, is this still an issue? It may be because not everyone had the same welcoming experience as you.  In Richmond VA several police officers in Henrico County (now retired) thought it was their job to pull over young black males and "teach them a lesson" and beat the daylights out of them; this was in the 80's.  Decades after MLK's assasination.

 

Just a few years ago, in Inkster MI, the cops beat the crap out of an older black man.  During the trial it was revealed one of the cops had been texting several others asking, "At least give me the satisfaction of knowing you were out there beating up n*****s right now,"  "LOL," Officer Zieleniewski said in his text response. "Just got done with one."  See BELOW for details...

 

Racist texts read at trial of Inkster police officer accused of beating black motorist 

 

And many Whites claim there is no systemic racism in this country.  In fact, POTUS said it this week and Larry Kudlow made the hollow claim last Sunday.  Don't believe your lying eyes...

 

I thought we tried in the 70s to end racism and hate; I think we were on the right path...YOU may have been; it's a big country and there is a LOT of hate out here...

 

Unfortunately a racist, sexist, rapist was elected as president a few years ago.  Indeed there was...I don't know how that happened; There are a LOT of very bigoted racists in this country....just look at Chalottesville for one example. I was not a part of that.  Many weren't; it doesn't change a thing!

 

I don't know how to end the current strife we are in but appreciate any helpful information. I just do not want this to continue...Well, your hearts in the right place but you have to understand, if you don't already, there are very deep racial feelings in MANY people across this country and planet.  There's no magic pill to "just make it stop"  It's been going on for generations and generations, passed down from generation to generation.  First thing is to start at home; make sure we are not teaching racism, or implicit racism.  Pay attention.  Patronize minority businesses; intentionally insert yourself in what may be uncomfortable positions.  That's what I do...then I can explore why I'm uncomfortable.  That in itself initiates some learning opportunities.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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@WebWiseWoman wrote:

 

I don't know how to end the current strife we are in but appreciate any helpful information. I just do not want this to continue...

 

#StaySafe

 

#PrayForShay


A very large part of reducing racism in people and systematic racism is through education. Honest history of Blacks and their contributions to our society have not been taught in our school systems. Heck, just look at how what happened in Tulsa OK in 1921 was 'brushed under the table' and hidden from history? People are so ignorant because systematic racism itself within our school systems has hidden true history from the majority of Americans. This must stop.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Could be that in GA we have seen a Gov. say LET THEM DIE IN THE STREETS to cure the health crisis, Members in Congress from their State ilie and steal while in Office. See State Officials keep people from vetoing so they stay in power. Steal a Gov. election by not allowing people to vote. Open up during the Virus crisis knowing full well people will die. Now when police follow the lead they get in trouble.

This could be a problem created by the people of GA reverting to their Civil War out look on what society should be about and for.

The answer might be to retrain the people of GA in truth, honesty, and brotherhood. Then it would spread to the Police Force as well as all areas of the Ga. govt.

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@GailL1  My daughter retired from the police force in Fort Lauderdale as a captain, and my son in law who passed two years ago, was a retired   sargent in the detective unit   Over the years I met many of their friends who were all policemen, and  they all were men and women of honor. So,  I know that not all policemen are bad 
In my personal view, policemen like all of us   are the simple representation of this society and culture. Some are racists and some are not. some are good and some are bad.
Perhaps we should not have waited until any of this has happened to simply deal with these situations and  have policies that address  what  a policeman can do and what they cannot do. and    make them accountable  of their actions when they don't                                                                         

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

. . . . I know that not all policemen are bad 
In my personal view, policemen like all of us   are the simple representation of this society and culture. Some are racists and some are not. some are good and some are bad.
Perhaps we should not have waited until any of this has happened to simply deal with these situations and  have policies that address  what  a policeman can do and what they cannot do. and    make them accountable  of their actions when they don't                                                                         


Think we, and especially the cops, are waiting for that list.  They seem to be very uncertain of their actions and how their actions can be construded. 

 

Who is "WE" - Why don't you start the list of what a cop can do and what they cannot do - make sure you cover EVERY situation.

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@GailL1 wrote:                                                             

Think we, and especially the cops, are waiting for that list.  They seem to be very uncertain of their actions and how their actions can be construded.   LOL!  Every GOOD cop knows he/she is a good cop.  If they are worried, they may want to consider who they covered up for. 

 

Who is "WE" - Why don't you start the list of what a cop can do and what they cannot do - make sure you cover EVERY situation. It's not up to Roxanne to decide.  Why don't you create "the list"?


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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@GailL1 Who is "WE" - Why don't you start the list of what a cop can do and what they cannot do - make sure you cover EVERY situation.

 

You wouldn't   want me to do that list.  LOL  LOL  LOL  We the plural of we the people, we as Americans. as  The powers to be.  we,  perhaps Congress and the Senate  we,    the State and the Municipalities.  That is what I meant by  WE

I think that everyone in this country has a penny to put in this pan. 

no name
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@Roxanna35 wrote:


Perhaps we should not have waited until any of this has happened to simply deal with these situations and  have policies that address  what  a policeman can do and what they cannot do. and    make them accountable  of their actions when they don't 

 

Yes, we should NOT have waited years, and decades and centuries to understand that we are all created equal and deserve EQUAL JUSTICE!!!  It's stunning that some are just now waking up.  Why is that?  Shame...

 

It took thousands of killings, many protests and even another round of protests for white to get "awoke".  Why?

 

Let's continue to move FORWARD and embrace EQUAL JUSTICE for "Liberty and Justice for all".  (c'mon folks, you learned it in elemntary school)...                                      


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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Gail,

 

Since you live in that area of the Country, do you feel this is something being pushed by their local police union?

 

So you know where I'm coming from, I think police unions are a major part of the problem since they keep defending bad officers without realizing they are simply making job harder for the good ones.

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@sp362 wrote:

Gail,

 

Since you live in that area of the Country, do you feel this is something being pushed by their local police union?

 

So you know where I'm coming from, I think police unions are a major part of the problem since they keep defending bad officers without realizing they are simply making job harder for the good ones.


Personally, I don't think so - I think it is coming from the cops themselves because they do not know what to do - they think that some or any of their actions could be in question.  This isn't just coming from the Rayshard Brooks incident - it is also coming from the (2) college student incident and several others.  It is on a roll now and I am not sure they know how to stop it.

 

There is some "political" triggers too especially with the DA Howard.  They also really like Erica Shields.

 

I just posted about another incident that happened locally that is getting headlines - check it out in my post entitled:  WHAT WOULD YOU DO? # 2

(Clayton County, GA., in the my new post above  is a metro area of Atlanta so it is not just the city proper where things are happening)

 

If people want change - they need to start getting specific about their wants - then the cops can make a decision about the job.  We have too many people pointing to what they deem to be the problem(s) and not enough specifics for whatever the "cure". 

 

 

 

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Gail wrote:

"

Personally, I don't think so - I think it is coming from the cops themselves because they do not know what to do - they think that some or any of their actions could be in question.  This isn't just coming from the Rayshard Brooks incident - it is also coming from the (2) college student incident and several others.  It is on a roll now and I am not sure they know how to stop it.

 

There is some "political" triggers too especially with the DA Howard.  They also really like Erica Shields.

 

I just posted about another incident that happened locally that is getting headlines - check it out in my post entitled:  WHAT WOULD YOU DO? # 2

(Clayton County, GA., in the my new post above  is a metro area of Atlanta so it is not just the city proper where things are happening)

 

If people want change - they need to start getting specific about their wants - then the cops can make a decision about the job.  We have too many people pointing to what they deem to be the problem(s) and not enough specifics for whatever the "cure". 

 

As far as getting specific, cops should be following all of their policies, especially their policies on appropriate use of force.  If the force used is excessive, than it is not within policy and cannot be defended.  Some disciplinary action should be taken, up to and including dismissal.  If individuals are not suited for the position, then they should try something else and not simply leave and be hired in another department / city. 

I am sure the companies you worked for in the past (I know the ones I worked for did), had zero tolerance policies that if violated meant you were fired no matter who you were.  In the case Brooks I would classify the officers decision to fire his gun in a crowded planet after a fleeing suspect who did not have a lethal weapon as putting the public in a greater danger.  Since he was actually endangering the public, he needs to be (and was) fired.  Whether or not he should be charged is an entirely different discussion, but his termination should not be an issue and anybody who has a "blue flu" over it has their priorities misplaced.

The other issue is that blue wall of silence.  I just read (I don't know if it is true) that Brosnan is refusing to testify against Rolfe.  Since he was sworn to serve and protect, this is unacceptable and, IMO he should be fired immediately.  In the civilian world, if you knew of somebody of violating policies and refused to answer questions about when asked, you would probably be let go.

In the end, they simply need to be held accountable for what they are supposed to do, just like everybody else.  If cops don't like that, then they need to find something else.

 

Was Shields forced to resign, or was that her decision because she felt responsible for the actions of the officers she was in charge of?  (I almost always blamed myself more than my employees whenever they did something wrong).

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@sp362wrote

As far as getting specific, cops should be following all of their policies, especially their policies on appropriate use of force.  If the force used is excessive, than it is not within policy and cannot be defended.  Some disciplinary action should be taken, up to and including dismissal.  If individuals are not suited for the position, then they should try something else and not simply leave and be hired in another department / city. 

 

I am sure the companies you worked for in the past (I know the ones I worked for did), had zero tolerance policies that if violated meant you were fired no matter who you were.  In the case Brooks I would classify the officers decision to fire his gun in a crowded planet after a fleeing suspect who did not have a lethal weapon as putting the public in a greater danger.  Since he was actually endangering the public, he needs to be (and was) fired.  Whether or not he should be charged is an entirely different discussion, but his termination should not be an issue and anybody who has a "blue flu" over it has their priorities misplaced.

The other issue is that blue wall of silence.  I just read (I don't know if it is true) that Brosnan is refusing to testify against Rolfe.  Since he was sworn to serve and protect, this is unacceptable and, IMO he should be fired immediately.  In the civilian world, if you knew of somebody of violating policies and refused to answer questions about when asked, you would probably be let go.

In the end, they simply need to be held accountable for what they are supposed to do, just like everybody else.  If cops don't like that, then they need to find something else.

 

Was Shields forced to resign, or was that her decision because she felt responsible for the actions of the officers she was in charge of?  (I almost always blamed myself more than my employees whenever they did something wrong).


Let's decide about that deadly force and when it is appropriate - Should a LEO have their gun drawn and ready when they are chasing an alleged perpetrator(s), even when they don't know if the alleged perpetrator is armed or has access to a weapon that could do harm to them or others?  The perpetrator could be young.

 

A few years back (Sept 2018) in the community next mine, a call came in about a person that had shoplifted.  Officers arrived and they gave chase.  One of the officers rounded a corner, there was some gun fire and one of the suspects shot him in the head.  It was discovered that it was a group of (3); all juveniles- trying to steal bandanas - big deal, right?!?! - property crime - bandanas, no less.

 

The KID with the gun, killed himself (self-inflicted gun short) according to news report  The other (2) were arrested.  The police chief at the time said: . . . . a man got up to go to work that day. Only thing he did was go to work, just like each and everyone of y’all do. Get up and go to work. And he was seriously, critically injured for doing his job.”

 

Now what if the officer had his gun ready and rounded the corner and saw the kid or kids and only "thought" it was a gun in hand - maybe it was a phone - then you have another situation all together.

Adrenaline runs high in these situations and the situations are not always so cut and dried. 

Who is to say that a fleeing perpetrator could not bring harm to others even if their weapon is not considered fully deadly - cars can be commandeered and act as weapons against others.

Does or should a police officer or other LEO need to think that a perpetrator acting violently can continue their violence unless stopped?  What about if it is only a crime against property or a revenue law that someone is breaking.

So what I am saying is that it is not human to believe that a LEO can foresee what MIGHT happen in an intense situation.  Sometimes, not even an intense situation -

 

An incident of  another  police officer killed close to my community - he was responding to a suspicious vehicle parked near a middle school.  When the killer was found,he brandished a lawnmower blade and “made an aggressive move” toward the officers, the statement said. One officer opened fire, striking and killing him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/21/us/officer-shot-gwinnett-county.html 

 

I was self-employed for the vast majority of my working career - so I made my own rules.  Nobody has said that an officers actions don't have to have consequences - investigation, firing, administrative leave, charges filed if need be.  The problem in this situation and others, which seems to be the tilting point in the blue flu and other resignations, is the process, - The mayor and Police Chief have always had the ability to fire or put on administrative leave or duty any officer where there is a question of their actions.  Normally, the GBI begin their investigation and when the facts are all laid out to the powers that be  - if necessary, criminal charges can be brought by the DA - the DA can then call for whatever action and charges and further the investigation. 

 

Brosnan is going to testify - he said he was going to testify the TRUTH.  The DA Investigators did interview him and he complied.  The DA seems to be interpreting this TRUTH in one way and the officer and his attorney in another way.  Same thing with the evidence - stills of videos are being interpreted in one context - the moving videos seem to be being interpreted differently.  Our justice system at work - 1st Grand Jury and if there is a YES bill, onto to the jury trial - probably in some other jurisdiction.

 

The job of a LEO is very much different than most jobs.  So much of it seems to be in the decision-making with different types of reference points - some perhaps not good, others which are needed for the job to stay safe and protect all of us, as the others.  In what other job is there such life and death decision making?  When pulling up to a call, they don't really know who or what might be on the other end or what awaits them in the encounter or how their actions or that of the other person or persons may take place or be perceived.

 

Chief Shields resigned because she felt that the process of investigation and charges had broken down - and not just in this case.  Again, the Mayor or the Chief can fire or place on administrative leave - it is the jumping the gun actions of the DA that she had a problem with -

WSB-TV 06.03.2020 - Leaked email: APD chief blindsided by officer charges, agencies end support in A... 

 

Perhaps we should look at this from a standpoint of malpractice like in the professions of medicine where there is other types of potential life and death or maiming outcomes. 

 

 

 

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GailL,

 

Yes, adrenaline runs high and there will always be situations that were either never in the training and where a split second decision must be made.  That is why the training needs to be stressing public safety first.

 

In the first scenario you post, would it have been acceptable to you that instead of running after the suspects (which is always dangerous) the officer simply pulled out his gun and shot them?

 

In the hypothetical about rounding a corner, and seeing a gun, what would be the worse course of action.  What if the kids are 100 or more feet away and there is a crowd of people behind them and people walking between the officer and the suspects.  Should the officer shoot in that situation, knowing that a miss has a real chance of hitting the wrong person?  How many shots should they fire?  Or, is the safer action taken cover back around the corner and calling for more back-up?

 

As far as Brosnan testifying, you live in the area so if you seen something recently I will believe it.  The most current articles I am reading about him are a day old.

 

As far as your last point, as with the private sector, consequences and policies need to remain consistent, especially on whether charges will be filed.  But policeman need to understand they are not above the law and need to help weed out officers who act as if they are.  As far as charges being filed, treat the situations as you would if the offender were a civilian.  Not every act of violence is treated the same due to underlying circumstances, and that would be the same here.  Is jail time really appropriate, or should it be job termination and probation?  As an example, I just  again watched a special about the LA riots.  They interviewed a few of the officers involved and one of them (not Powell or Koons) came off as a really smug SOB.  He actually blamed society as the reason why he beat King (talk about not taking personal responsibility). 

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