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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 1 of 23

Olderscout66 wrote:

To "fix" Obamacare for all time, remove the ability for healthy young people to be freeloaders. Do that simple, sensible thing and the insurance pool has the ability to offer highly affordable care for EVERYONE. Remove the mandate as GOPers are demanding and the idea of affordable care for all Americans vanishes like the virtue of a Trumpette.

 

Republicans demanded freeloaders be allowed because they were certain that would kill the program, but all it did was cause it to slow (vs stop) the increase in costs.

 

We've seen what the GOPerLords had their Congress offer, and it was crapola not even a Republican could support and that was nothing more than another plan to redistribute wealth (and this time, health) from the Middle Class to the very top of the 1%

 

Now lets here what one of our resident wingers thinks will IMPROVE on Obamacare, you know, like Der Trumper kept promising as he conned voters?


I felt from the beginning that the only good part was the individual mandate. If hospitals must provide care then those able must buy insurance. i could never feel sympathy for the 45 year old whining he had developed cancer and couldn't get insurance (for the first time at the age of 45). 

 

And the rest id hard to follow with all the GOPerLords, Trumpette, crapola, and Der Trumper trash. You may have good ideas. Why not try just putting them out?

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 2 of 23

sp362 wrote:

Since the current alt right is in fact Neo Fascist, I have an issue with them controlling the Government.
Please expand on that. What makes them neoFascist. They do not want to control the economy, that was a basis of Fascism. If "populism" is the will of the people is it a bad thing?
"Anti-immigrant"???  I think you are making a common mistake by leaving out the word "illegal".
I agree with your thinking about straying to far from the center. That is why the takeover of the Democratic Party by the neoMarxists of the Progressive Movement disturbs me. Let's face it, it is not the Party of Jack Kennedy.
I was not aware of how little tort added. I am surprised.

 

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Treasured Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 3 of 23

sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

NerdyMom wrote:

CriticalThinking wrote:

I disagree. We should know by now that the Republicans will never vote for single payer in our lifetime. Therefore, the only viable option is improving the ACA and there's one obvious, simple change which will make the ACA a winner.

 

I disagree. There are two elements in place. One is the cowardly nature of the establishment Reps and, second, the very cleverly placed "dependency" of Obamacare. Many were added to to the "something for nothing" band and taking that away requires more guts than the the Reps have.

 

Smile neoMarxists, you are going to get socialized medicine.

 


Do you even know what a Neo Marxist is?  You seem to have grabbed onto this phrase and use it at every opportunity.  The average Democrat is no more of a Neo Marxist than the average Republican is a Neo Fascist.


He posted a lot about it - all his interpretations and conclusions not backed up by links from authoritative sources.  

Bogus propaganda...

Have pity for Melania - she hasn't yet got rid of that ugly fat.
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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 4 of 23

CriticalThinking wrote:

Right Wingers often take terrible political positions, especially when it comes to health insurance. They do not see health insurance as a right which all American citizens should have. They view health insurance as something a citizen must earn.


Food is at least as important. Shall we have the government take over the entire food industry??

 

As such, is food also something that all American citizens should have provided by the government?

 

Just putting things into perspective.

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 5 of 23

To "fix" Obamacare for all time, remove the ability for healthy young people to be freeloaders. Do that simple, sensible thing and the insurance pool has the ability to offer highly affordable care for EVERYONE. Remove the mandate as GOPers are demanding and the idea of affordable care for all Americans vanishes like the virtue of a Trumpette.

 

Republicans demanded freeloaders be allowed because they were certain that would kill the program, but all it did was cause it to slow (vs stop) the increase in costs.

 

We've seen what the GOPerLords had their Congress offer, and it was crapola not even a Republican could support and that was nothing more than another plan to redistribute wealth (and this time, health) from the Middle Class to the very top of the 1%

 

Now lets here what one of our resident wingers thinks will IMPROVE on Obamacare, you know, like Der Trumper kept promising as he conned voters?

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 6 of 23

rk9152 wrote:

sp362 wrote:


 

On topic, just wanting Medicine to be moved away from the private sector does not make someone a "Neo Marxist".  Take a look at our Medical system through a Capitalistic perspective, we the pay the most in the world and have the worst results of all First World Nations.  In a Capitalistic perspective, that says FAILURE and OUT OF BUSINESS.  Wanting a better way is not Neo Marxist.  By your definition, the Founding Fathers were Neo Marxists because they established a standing army in 1791 and took away the opportunity of Companies and Individuals to hire out their own armies.

Agreed, socialized medicine all by itself does not define neoMarxism. However, it is an element of the Marxist State. We pay more - true, and we are the most litigious nation around. How much that contributes is a question but it surely is in there. Also, we do not have a system that says, "We have decided to not try to treat your baby. We have decided he will die".

 

The cost of lawsuits adds 0.43% to medical costs according to Forbes in 2010.  (Since it is a percentage, I am sure that is close to the current actual figure).  If you add in the cost of "extra" tests that Doctor's prescribe so they can avoid malpractice, that cost increases to 2.4%, still far short of the extra we pay for inferior care.

 

We do have a system that says exactly what you said.  If Charlie Gard was here, it would be up to the Insurance Company to either approve care, or say it was "experimental" and they would not pay for it.

 

As the the army - the defense of the nation is the proper business of government so having an army is appropriate.

 

Fascism and Neo Fascism are both far right (You can make a valid case for the alt right being Neo Fascist).  Neo Fascism is characterized by nativism, anti communism, anti socialism, anti Marxism and opposition to a liberal democracy.

"Far right" - as is Communism. Let's face it those three are all dictatorial with a strong central government and government control over much of the lives of the citizen. Not my vision and I suspect, not the vision of the Founders. From that perspective, I don't see this "left'right" distinction.

 

Communism is far left.  Neo Fascism also includes populism and anti-immigration components.  In my opinion. anytime any system strays too far from center, there will be issues.  Since the current alt right is in fact Neo Fascist, I have an issue with them controlling the Government.

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Trusted Social Butterfly

The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 7 of 23

Right Wingers often take terrible political positions, especially when it comes to health insurance. They do not see health insurance as a right which all American citizens should have. They view health insurance as something a citizen must earn.

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 8 of 23

sp362 wrote:


 

On topic, just wanting Medicine to be moved away from the private sector does not make someone a "Neo Marxist".  Take a look at our Medical system through a Capitalistic perspective, we the pay the most in the world and have the worst results of all First World Nations.  In a Capitalistic perspective, that says FAILURE and OUT OF BUSINESS.  Wanting a better way is not Neo Marxist.  By your definition, the Founding Fathers were Neo Marxists because they established a standing army in 1791 and took away the opportunity of Companies and Individuals to hire out their own armies.

Agreed, socialized medicine all by itself does not define neoMarxism. However, it is an element of the Marxist State. We pay more - true, and we are the most litigious nation around. How much that contributes is a question but it surely is in there. Also, we do not have a system that says, "We have decided to not try to treat your baby. We have decided he will die".

 

As the the army - the defense of the nation is the proper business of government so having an army is appropriate.

 

Fascism and Neo Fascism are both far right (You can make a valid case for the alt right being Neo Fascist).  Neo Fascism is characterized by nativism, anti communism, anti socialism, anti Marxism and opposition to a liberal democracy.

"Far right" - as is Communism. Let's face it those three are all dictatorial with a strong central government and government control over much of the lives of the citizen. Not my vision and I suspect, not the vision of the Founders. From that perspective, I don't see this "left'right" distinction.


 

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 9 of 23

rk9152 wrote:

sp362 wrote:

Do you even know what a Neo Marxist is?  You seem to have grabbed onto this phrase and use it at every opportunity.  The average Democrat is no more of a Neo Marxist than the average Republican is a Neo Fascist.

 

Totally off topic, I hope no one gets mad at us. 

 

To answer your question - yes, in fact, I started a topic on it awhile back. It deteriorated into trash talk about GOPerDupes, tRUMP, agent orange and the usual stuff. I am contemplating starting another.

 

As to Fascism - considering the economic model of Fascism has control of the means of production being with the State it seems much more in the ball park of the Democrats, particularly the further left ones.


 


On topic, just wanting Medicine to be moved away from the private sector does not make someone a "Neo Marxist".  Take a look at our Medical system through a Capitalistic perspective, we the pay the most in the world and have the worst results of all First World Nations.  In a Capitalistic perspective, that says FAILURE and OUT OF BUSINESS.  Wanting a better way is not Neo Marxist.  By your definition, the Founding Fathers were Neo Marxists because they established a standing army in 1791 and took away the opportunity of Companies and Individuals to hire out their own armies.

 

Fascism and Neo Fascism are both far right (You can make a valid case for the alt right being Neo Fascist).  Neo Fascism is characterized by nativism, anti communism, anti socialism, anti Marxism and opposition to a liberal democracy.

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: The only possible improvement to PPACA

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Message 10 of 23

Olderscout66 wrote:

Tom5678 wrote:
absolutely agree. So where is the leadership on the Dems. on this??!!! I read an article in my local paper on Sunday that said the Dems. are torn between Russia, and health care...Really? Let Russia take care of Trump and family on its own as it is doing. Health care, and Medicare for all, you should be preaching from every street corner in the country! I know Bernie has been preaching, anyone in the Democratic party??

You don't hear about Dems proposals because the rules in the House and Senate are that the Majority decides what gets discussed, and Republicans refuse to allow Dems to even offer amendments to their legislation, let alone actually debate their ideas.

 

If you listen to NPR, you'll hear A LOT of what Dems are propsoing, along with an actual discussion of what Republicans have put forth. This p.m., some GOPer ADMITTED the reason they have NOTHING even close to as good as Obamacare is Obamacare IS their pprogram, but after 8 years of vilifying it, they can't admit it's great and just needs some minor tweeks (like MANDATING coverage to get the freeloaders off the dole) or even their very lofo base will see they've been lied to for 8 solid years.


True that what gets discussed in Congress is controlled by the majority party but that should not stop the Democratic congressmen/women from speaking out outside the walls of Congress. The Democrats have fallen down for decades in getting their message out.

 

As long as the Democrats allow the Republicans to control the message they will continue to look like they have nothing (and this doesn't just apply to healthcare). It is good that they are trying to get their message out through NPR but that media won't reach most people. They need to spread their message over all possible media.

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