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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 91 of 328

@cat2011 wrote:

Corb, you're doing a second-hand citation of Groseclose/Milyo, a very controversial study whose methodology has been criticized by other scholors.

 

One of the first problems with Groseclose/Milyo is that they purport to use the ratings of ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) to establish a median for the House. The actual ADA ratings for the House median was 50.1, representing the political position of the average American, but Groseclose/Milyo extrapolate that to 39, which heavily skews all media ratings to the left.

 

There are many, many problems with their scholarship, including their inexplicable weighting of a K Street address in their scores. One obvious problem is that they seem unfamiliar with the dozens of studies that have already been done on media bias. Another obvious problem is that they treat a newspaper citation of a technocratic expert as if the citation itself proved bias.

 

Here is a link to a scholarly analysis of the weaknesses in Groseclose/Milyo.

 

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2005/12/the_problems_wi.html

 


You never seem to get the point.  Instead you always just pick out some point to argue about.  As I originally said, there have been many studies done on this.  I picked the first one I came to.  Don't like it?  Fine, pick anyone you want.  It doesn't matter.  The point is that a fact doesn't change due to the source.  As I said in the post you responded to:

"...if it's wrong, it's wrong.  But just because it's from Fox doesn't make it wrong any more than something from Newsweek is wrong just because they about three time farther left of the middle that Fox is right of the middle."

 

As someone else said, it it's Tuesday and someone on Fox says it's Tuesday, it's still Tuesday.  That's the fact of the matter.  As I've said before, the problem I have is with people saying it's not Tuesday if they said it was on Fox.  That's NOT the fact of the matter.  That IS sheer ignorance.  It's what people say when they don't know what day it is but want to argue about it because they don't want it to be Tuesday, whether it is or not.  The intelligent people look at a calendar so they know what day it is.  They don't say "it must have come from Fox."   They say, yes, the calendar shows today is Tuesday or no, according to the calendar today is Wednesday.  See how that works.  The original source had absolutely nothing to do with it with determining what was said was fact or fiction.

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 92 of 328

@cat2011 wrote:

Corb, you're doing a second-hand citation of Groseclose/Milyo, a very controversial study whose methodology has been criticized by other scholors.

 

One of the first problems with Groseclose/Milyo is that they purport to use the ratings of ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) to establish a median for the House. The actual ADA ratings for the House median was 50.1, representing the political position of the average American, but Groseclose/Milyo extrapolate that to 39, which heavily skews all media ratings to the left.

 

There are many, many problems with their scholarship, including their inexplicable weighting of a K Street address in their scores. One obvious problem is that they seem unfamiliar with the dozens of studies that have already been done on media bias. Another obvious problem is that they treat a newspaper citation of a technocratic expert as if the citation itself proved bias.

 

Here is a link to a scholarly analysis of the weaknesses in Groseclose/Milyo.

 

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2005/12/the_problems_wi.html

 


Quick easy way to tell which media tries to control the people who watch it. Just follow the posts in here. If it is on FOX News or right wing web site you will see it in here the next day word for word from our far right posters. That does not happen with our non far right posters as they look at news reports, and then give some thought to them so they come with informed views. They can debate a subject, and always win over the far right people.

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 93 of 328

Corb, you're doing a second-hand citation of Groseclose/Milyo, a very controversial study whose methodology has been criticized by other scholors.

 

One of the first problems with Groseclose/Milyo is that they purport to use the ratings of ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) to establish a median for the House. The actual ADA ratings for the House median was 50.1, representing the political position of the average American, but Groseclose/Milyo extrapolate that to 39, which heavily skews all media ratings to the left.

 

There are many, many problems with their scholarship, including their inexplicable weighting of a K Street address in their scores. One obvious problem is that they seem unfamiliar with the dozens of studies that have already been done on media bias. Another obvious problem is that they treat a newspaper citation of a technocratic expert as if the citation itself proved bias.

 

Here is a link to a scholarly analysis of the weaknesses in Groseclose/Milyo.

 

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2005/12/the_problems_wi.html

 

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 94 of 328

@rk9152 wrote:

I noticed that NPR was listed as non-political and non-biased. However, Diane Rehm has a show there. It is not non-biased, but it is not news. That's the point - can a "news" organization separate it's news from its commentary?

 

A member of the media can be biased not only on how it reports but also on what it reports. Example - the "lost" IRS emails. Fox has been on top of it. The Washington Post is on it now, but until recently it had been a month and about a year before that. So, is Fox biased for doing what used to be called "investigative reporting" or is the Post biased for "spiking" the story until they were pushed into reporting it.

 

But, why should we argue over this. I'm sure we can agree that there is bias in the media - differing degrees to be sure - but bias none the less. 


I don't doubt that NPR hires journalists that put on opinions on TV that would be quite normal.  I am speaking about the news, they actually cover world news very extensively, and BBCA mostly covers world news. I like them because they are very straight forward type of programs no drama at all, just simple black and white news stories.

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 95 of 328

@cat2011 wrote:

No, rk, we can't agree that all media is biased. That's my point.

 

There is serious journalism that follows the canons of journalism I outlined in my previous post. Serious journalism includes such distinguished sources as the New York Times, the Washington Post, NPR, AP, and numerous newspapers across the country. In order to be thought of as serious journalism, the news source must distinguish between commentary and news, as NPR does.

 

Then there is advocacy journalism, like Fox News, MSNBC, DailyKos, etc. You are confusing serious journalism with advocacy.

 

 


There have been many, many studies involving media bias.  The findings always seem to come out the same:  The vast majority of media outlets are left leaning, some more than other, most farther left than Fox is right as the quote from the Harvard article referenced below indicates.  Personally, I admire what Fox has done.  When they first started they were an also ran at best.  Then they did a little research and came to understand that most outlets were left leaning and that the market was wide open to compete from the right.  Consequently, they became and have been for years, the highest rated cable news network and, according to polls, one of the world's most trusted sources.  By the way, I have absolutely no problem with someone says they said such and such on Fox and it is inaccurate because....  And if it's wrong, it's wrong.  But just because it's from Fox doesn't make it wrong any more than something from Newsweek is wrong just because they about three time farther left of the middle that Fox is right of the middle.

 

The Liberal Media: It's No Myth

 

"On the conservative end, Fox News Special Report came out with a rating of 27; that is, 12 points more conservative than the 39 of the median member of the House. The only other right-of-center outlet was The Washington Times, at 34.

 

"On the liberal end, Newsweek had an astonishing rating of 72 -- that's 33 points more liberal than the House median. Other highly liberal outlets included The New York Times, Time magazine, the CBS Evening News, Robert J. Barro USA Today, and NBC Nightly News. These scores ranged from 62 to 64, about 25 points above the House median. For viewers seeking truly "fair and balanced" reporting, the best outlets were ABC Good Morning America and NewsHour with Jim Lehrer. The ADA scores for these programs were 39 and 41, respectively. Places moderately left of center were CNN's NewsNight with Aaron Brown (49), The Washington Post (53), NPR's Morning Edition (55) and ABC WorldNews Tonight (55)."

  

http://scholar.harvard.edu/barro/files/04_0614_liberalmedia_bw.pdf

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 96 of 328

C'mon, rk. Everyone up here believes in the Constitution and in learning from history. That doesn't distinguish you in the least. Conservatives like to brand themselves strict adherents to the Constitution, but that doesn't mean they are. If they were, we wouldn't have decisions like Bush v Gore or Citizens United.

 

It's a lot like Republicans branding themselves fiscal conservatives, then blowing up the deficit and debt.

 

 

 

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 97 of 328

Eleanor - yes and no. I cannot speak for all Conservatives, Objectivists, Libertarians - only me. But when I look  back. I look at two things. One is the Constitution that is based on a set of principles, and I feel that while circumstances change (jet plane vs horse and buggy) principles do not. 

 

The second "back" is history. You can look back and see the end result of various governmental models and see the outcome. 

 

So, under those circumstances, "back" does have merit, does it not??

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 98 of 328

No, rk, we can't agree that all media is biased. That's my point.

 

There is serious journalism that follows the canons of journalism I outlined in my previous post. Serious journalism includes such distinguished sources as the New York Times, the Washington Post, NPR, AP, and numerous newspapers across the country. In order to be thought of as serious journalism, the news source must distinguish between commentary and news, as NPR does.

 

Then there is advocacy journalism, like Fox News, MSNBC, DailyKos, etc. You are confusing serious journalism with advocacy.

 

 

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 99 of 328

Someone omitted the Populists. Most Americans are populists..not liberals. Populists advance the American ideals as liberals do but populists also believe that backward states that hang onto to the same dangerous industries for centuries need to stay in 2014. This is the reason most populists disagree with the right wing. "Back" is all the right seem content to force on everyone else. As if "back" was the only direction the US should take. 

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Re: The left has taken over the Politics and Current Event Board

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Message 100 of 328

@cat2011 wrote:

No, corb, the problem is indeed using Fox News as your source. Nobody is going to believe your "facts" because you haven't supported them with a credible source. It doesn't mean that there isn't some remote possibility that what you post is true--it just means that you have to establish your proof.

 

Do you understand?

 


Hillary Clinton was on Fox last night.  Since she was on Fox, nothing she said was factual, right?  

 

Take a look at the posts here.  I seldom, if ever, see Fox being used as a source. Regardless of the source, I see many people saying, "it must have come from Fox" to indicate whatever is said is false.  The point is, saying it comes from Fox does not prove anything other than the person saying it can't refute the FACT so they try to diminsh the source.

 

Do you understand?

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