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Honored Social Butterfly

The impact of the Bernie Bros

One of the reasons Sanders was able to stay in the 2016 race is the dedicated cadre of online supporters who continues to clamor for fairer treatment of his campaign by the DNC as well as continued discussion of Sander's policy stances.

 

When Bernie ultimately lost the nomination to Clinton, they continued sniping at traditional Democratic candidates and voters applying increasingly confrontational tactics. Online, they would gang up on individuals they felt were not politically correct and offline they used equally offensive tactics usually involving bullhorns. 

 

Their goal was to advance the candidacy of Bernie Sanders and his policies.  The actual result was to establish the perception that a Sanders presidency would unleash the same sort of offensive behavior from the left that the Trump presidency has done for the right.  It cost Bernie votes.   When Warren called him on the actions of his "Bernie Bros" I don't think Sanders had yet realized the extent of the damage these young people were doing to his campaign. He immediately disowned them but by then his image was indelibly linked to left wing hooligans. Nobody wanted another Trump.  

 

Lessons for the next revolutionary. 

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

The impact of the Sander's campaign and his Bernie Bro's in 2016 was precisely the same as the Nader campaign in 2000 - THEY GAVE THE VICTORY TO A GUTLESS DRAFT-DODGING PREPPYTWIT WITH THE BRAIN OF A FLEA!

 

Here's some numbers to support this analysis:

State           Bernie Primary Votes    Trump Victory Margin   Victory as % B

Wisconsin            570,192                            22,448                             4.0%

Michigan              598,943                            10,704                             1.8%

Pennsylvania      731,881                             44,292                             6.1%

TOTALS            1,901,016                             77,444                             4.1%       

 

4.1% or more of Bernie's supporters were so outraged that Hillary played politics in the primaries (AND YOU EXPECTED WHAT, EXACTLY???)  they sat on their hands in the 2016 General Election and elected a Toad just like Nader's 74,000 supporters in Florida handed the White House to another idiot in 2000.   

 

The big difference between Bernie Bro's and GOPerdupes is the dupes vote for THEIR PARTY, whoever the candidate. That's how they WIN.   

 

PLEASE Bernie Bro's DO NOT ELECT TRUMP A SECOND TIME.  

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Honored Social Butterfly

The impact of the Bernie Bros

 

Sanders fought the good fight, and he did change the conversation about who we are and where we should go as a society, as did Warren and Yang.

 

At this point Sanders has lost to Biden, unless of course Biden becomes incapacitated somehow.

 

Time for Sanders to lead his organization and get behind Biden.

 

Time for Sanders supporters to move their donations to Biden.

 

I did, but then I was supporting them all, now it's down to one.

Honored Social Butterfly

Image result for hear hear


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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Elizabeth Warren proved one thing - she's thin skinned.

 

As Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said "Social media is like the Wild West." She knows. She gets more nasty and derogatory posts than Elizabeth Warren has ever gotten. So has Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib. All three supported Bernie Sanders.

 

Do you see the posts on social media about Trump? Vulgar images with nasty comments. I don't support Trump but I find those images repulsive. Do we call those people who post those repulsive images "Democratic Party Bros"? 

 

obama bros intercept 1.jpg

 

The concoction of the “Bernie Bro” narrative by pro-Clinton journalists in 2016 has been a potent political tactic — and a journalistic disgrace.


There are literally millions of women who support Sanders.

One has to be willing to belittle the views and erase the existence of a huge number of American women to wield this “Bernie Bro” smear.

 

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31/the-bernie-bros-narrative-a-cheap-false-campaign-tactic-masquera...

 

Before Bernie Bros, There Were Obama Boys


obama bros.jpg

 


That quote was actually something said in an article from Salon in 2008.


It’s amazing how if you just replace ‘Obama’ with ‘Sanders’ you would think it was from this year and not 12 years ago.


https://www.salon.com/2008/04/14/obama_supporters/

 

The “Bernie bro” reputation “is a media-driven perception.”


Each political campaign probably has their bro-y moments. That’s to be expected. There will always be some people who will be like that, but I don’t think it’s something to be concerned about, as far as damaging the campaign.


Sanders’s online audience is much, much larger than Elizabeth Warren’s or Joe Biden’s by an order of several million.

Since early 2019, Facebook pages supporting Sanders, for example, have generated more than 290 million interactions, while pages for Warren and Biden have generated 20 million and 9 million interactions, respectively, according to an analysis by Trevor Davis, a research professor at Livingston’s institute.

 

I went to the Bernie Sanders Rally in Florida in 2016.
Listening to the media, you would expect a bunch of white guys hoot'n and holler'n. There were more women there than men. The crowd was enthusiastic and well mannered. A wonderful crowd.


Here is a picture of the Florida Rally. Notice the Bernie Lady Bros.

 

bernie rally fl.jpg

 

And speaking of nastiness and dirty tactics on social media....

 

"Hillary Clinton Trolls Shut Down Pro-Bernie Sanders Facebook Groups".....

 

The Bernie Sanders groups were targeted by online trolls, who posted pornographic images and reported the groups to Facebook admins.


Some legitimate Bernie supporters even reported seeing images containing pedophilia.


https://web.archive.org/web/20161217082425/http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-facebook-groups-trolle...

 

Honored Social Butterfly

The Russian trolls have been quite busy, creating discourse in America for some time.  Stay focused on the REAL enemy, sometimes they'll include pee tape accusations and pedophilia....


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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The Russian trolls have been quite busy, creating discourse in America for some time.  Stay focused on the REAL enemy, sometimes they'll include pee tape accusations and pedophilia....


"Cable News" has been quite busy creating discourse in America for some time.


It was the corporate media and Democrats who pushed the "Bernie Bros" smear. Not the Russians.


It was Hillary Trolls who shut down pro-Bernie Sanders Facebook Groups by posting pornograhy on pro-Bernie sites. Not the Russians.


It was an "American company" pretending to be Russians posting on the websites of Republican Roy Moore (AL). They used Russian script to convince people the posts were really from Russia.


The man who donated $100,000 for the project apologized saying he didn't know his money was going to be used that way.


Mother Jones magazine beleived they were really Russians. Why not? The propaganda was backed up by a former senior CIA official.

 

russia mother jones.png

 

From Mother Jones:


The Kremlin’s ongoing “active measures” campaign on social media has aimed to sow confusion and chaos by supporting both far-right and far-left interests in American politics. The Alabama election presented a ripe opportunity, according to former senior CIA official John Sipher, now an expert with the national security group Cipher Brief.

“In the case of Moore, the Russians certainly assess that the hyper-partisan and heated campaign is pitting Americans against each other and they want to do all they can to add fuel to the fire,” he says.


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/russian-propagandists-are-pushing-for-roy-moore-to-win/


And now the DOJ drops charges against ‘Russian trolls’ after they dared demand evidence in Court.
How embarrassing for Team Mueller and Democrats:


https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1239687082160689152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%...

 

Like I've been saying all along: "Show me the proof. That's all I'm asking."

Trump is still president. Jill Stein is a free woman. And Tulsi Gabbard still has National Security Clearance. 

Honored Social Butterfly

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly


@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly

Sanders’s online audience is much, much larger than Elizabeth Warren’s or Joe Biden’s by an order of several million.

Since early 2019, Facebook pages supporting Sanders, for example, have generated more than 290 million interactions, while pages for Warren and Biden have generated 20 million and 9 million interactions, respectively, according to an analysis by Trevor Davis, a research professor at Livingston’s institute.

 

 

That may be, but it didn't translate into votes. I think it is remarkable how many states Joe Biden won on Super Tuesday without spending a dime. He had no money, no ads, and look what happened. Compare that with Bloomberg's millions for a handful of delegates. It should make us question why candidates have to spend so much money to run for office. Of course, the reason is because the media insist on it! They rake in tons of $$$$$ on election campaigns. It's why we will not likely see Biden's plan for federally funded elections to be successful should he become president.

 

The other notable thing that I find about the Sanders' campaign is that nothing changed since 2016. As his supporters tell us, he is consistent, and that is so true. He basically has the same speech and talking points that he used then. And the trend that we've been seeing in the states so far, is that a lot of the vote that Bernie got in 2016 may have been more anti-Hillary than pro-Bernie. Biden has been winning where Hillary lost, and lost big to Bernie. The margins have virtually flipped in a lot of those districts.

 

Did you ever notice how Bernie votes against everything. If the bill isn't perfectly done to suit him, he will not compromise, even to get the part that is worth having. AOC and Co. are much the same way. There's no such thing as getting a bill with everything you want unless you can win a supermajority in both houses. Not gonna happen. As Mick Jagger sings it, 

 

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need

 

Sanders' young supporters are only following Sanders' lead. It's his way or no way. We don't make deals, and anyone who sees it otherwise will be criticized severely (e.g. The Squad vs Pelosi). That's just the way they roll.

 

 

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
Honored Social Butterfly

Did you ever notice how Bernie votes against everything. If the bill isn't perfectly done to suit him, he will not compromise...


You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sanders is disappointed that the size and scope of the Rebates were reduced by Congress. He had proposed a $300 Rebate to every man, woman and child in the country. For a family of four, that would mean a $1,200 check.


Instead, Congress is giving Rebates only to adults who pay income tax, meaning a family of four with two wage earners will receive $600.


"There's no doubt that our original plan got watered down" Sanders said. "Still, $90 million for Vermonters is a significant sum of money."


Sanders deserves the credit for coming up with the idea, even if it was not passed in its original form, said Dan Maffei, spokesperson for the Democratic members of the House Ways and Means Committee.

 

bernie rebate.jpg

 

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But later in 2010, he voted nay on this Obama negotiated bill that had bipartisan support. 

 

The Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 (Pub.L. 111–312, H.R. 4853, 124 Stat. 3296, enacted December 17, 2010), also known as the 2010 Tax Relief Act, was passed by the United States Congress on December 16, 2010, and signed into law by President Barack Obama on December 17, 2010.

The Act centers on a temporary, two-year reprieve from the sunset provisions of the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA) and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA), together known as the "Bush tax cuts." Income taxes would have returned to Clinton administration-era rates in 2011 had Congress not passed this law. The Act also extends some provisions from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA or 'the Stimulus'). The act also includes several other tax- and economy-related measures intended to have a new stimulatory effect, mostly notably an extension of unemployment benefits and a one-year reduction in the FICA payroll tax, as part of a compromise agreement between Obama and Congressional Republicans. The overall monetary impact of the measure has been placed at $858 billion.

The law was also known, during its earlier formulation in the House of Representatives, as the Middle Class Tax Relief Act of 2010. The package has been referred to as the "Obama-GOP tax deal" as well as the "Obama tax cuts".

This summary is from Wikipedia.

 

All one has to do is look at his voting record which has far more nays than yeas. That is just a fact.

 

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

healthcare corona deaths.jpg

 

corona no insurance.jpg

 

 

healthcare corona virus subway.jpg

 

Honored Social Butterfly


@gordyfl wrote:

I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.

 

Didn't the Democratic Party put forth and propose the Public Option in the ACA?


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@gordyfl wrote:

I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.

 

Didn't the Democratic Party put forth and propose the Public Option in the ACA?


Yes they did. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


I will say this again. We have a form of medicare for all, and have had it for well over 100 years. You see that come to the for front with the virus. Everyone will be treated whether they can pay or not. You see steps being taken to improve the ER Care section which is where you see most people who can not pay are in. There is a move under way to start and test the homeless for the virus as they know if they do not do that we will have more spikes that effect everyone.

The big mistake Bernie made was not starting from the point anyone in the US can get medical care now and have health care costs include all the costs in the ER Care section which includes a lot of costs in other budgets like Fire Dept. If he did that what he wanted to do would not have been a big jump in costs. I think it might have shown a saving.You do know with an improved medicare for all your Auto , Home, Renters, Liability, Life Insurance premiums would go down some as their are health care costs in those rates. Look at how much will be spent due to the virus, and all of that including what the restrictions now in place will cost us. That is all part of total health care costs.

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@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


I will say this again. We have a form of medicare for all, and have had it for well over 100 years. You see that come to the for front with the virus. Everyone will be treated whether they can pay or not. You see steps being taken to improve the ER Care section which is where you see most people who can not pay are in. There is a move under way to start and test the homeless for the virus as they know if they do not do that we will have more spikes that effect everyone.

The big mistake Bernie made was not starting from the point anyone in the US can get medical care now and have health care costs include all the costs in the ER Care section which includes a lot of costs in other budgets like Fire Dept. If he did that what he wanted to do would not have been a big jump in costs. I think it might have shown a saving.You do know with an improved medicare for all your Auto , Home, Renters, Liability, Life Insurance premiums would go down some as their are health care costs in those rates. Look at how much will be spent due to the virus, and all of that including what the restrictions now in place will cost us. That is all part of total health care costs.


You can say we have form Medicare For All until the cows come home and it just isn't true. Medicare For All would give every person in America the same coverage and we have nothing near that today. What you're claiming is simply not true. Ironically, those on Medicaid have less co-pays than many with Health Insurance. Many that simply go to emergency rooms when they are sick can't see a doctor for preventative care. Many in states that didn't expand Medicaid only have emergency rooms to go to when they are sick. No we don't have a form of Medicare for All. We have private health insurance policies for many, health care coverage provided through employers for many, Medicare for many, and Medicaid for some but not all. All of those have different levels of coverage. Your claim is erroneous no matter how many times you repeat it.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


I will say this again. We have a form of medicare for all, and have had it for well over 100 years. You see that come to the for front with the virus. Everyone will be treated whether they can pay or not. You see steps being taken to improve the ER Care section which is where you see most people who can not pay are in. There is a move under way to start and test the homeless for the virus as they know if they do not do that we will have more spikes that effect everyone.

The big mistake Bernie made was not starting from the point anyone in the US can get medical care now and have health care costs include all the costs in the ER Care section which includes a lot of costs in other budgets like Fire Dept. If he did that what he wanted to do would not have been a big jump in costs. I think it might have shown a saving.You do know with an improved medicare for all your Auto , Home, Renters, Liability, Life Insurance premiums would go down some as their are health care costs in those rates. Look at how much will be spent due to the virus, and all of that including what the restrictions now in place will cost us. That is all part of total health care costs.


You can say we have form Medicare For All until the cows come home and it just isn't true. Medicare For All would give every person in America the same coverage and we have nothing near that today. What you're claiming is simply not true. Ironically, those on Medicaid have less co-pays than many with Health Insurance. Many that simply go to emergency rooms when they are sick can't see a doctor for preventative care. Many in states that didn't expand Medicaid only have emergency rooms to go to when they are sick. No we don't have a form of Medicare for All. We have private health insurance policies for many, health care coverage provided through employers for many, Medicare for many, and Medicaid for some but not all. All of those have different levels of coverage. Your claim is erroneous no matter how many times you repeat it.


We have a form of medicare for all and have had it for over 100 years. Everyone can get medical help just go to the ER and you will be given it. Everyone at the ER is treated the same way and these are facts which neither you nor I can change. The big problem in improving our system is the people who think we do not have medical treatment for all, and the only way you can have a system for all is with one plan for all. You need a base plan for all which provides good treatment on an ongoing basis which we do not have, and should have. Medicare for over 65 is built on a base plan then added to. It is time to get real if you want improvements or keep taking into thin air about something  that is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes. You confuse Insurance with treatment and they are 2 different things. With a good base plan you do away with Insurance as we  it adds about 20%. Even large business with self insurance type policies save a little money. When all are in the pool you get the cheapest cost, when there is a single payer you get the cheapest costs. One big reason our system is so bad is due to the fact most people do not understand it, and can be used by the special interest groups for their benefit. The start of the ACA shows that in action.

Honored Social Butterfly


@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


I will say this again. We have a form of medicare for all, and have had it for well over 100 years. You see that come to the for front with the virus. Everyone will be treated whether they can pay or not. You see steps being taken to improve the ER Care section which is where you see most people who can not pay are in. There is a move under way to start and test the homeless for the virus as they know if they do not do that we will have more spikes that effect everyone.

The big mistake Bernie made was not starting from the point anyone in the US can get medical care now and have health care costs include all the costs in the ER Care section which includes a lot of costs in other budgets like Fire Dept. If he did that what he wanted to do would not have been a big jump in costs. I think it might have shown a saving.You do know with an improved medicare for all your Auto , Home, Renters, Liability, Life Insurance premiums would go down some as their are health care costs in those rates. Look at how much will be spent due to the virus, and all of that including what the restrictions now in place will cost us. That is all part of total health care costs.


You can say we have form Medicare For All until the cows come home and it just isn't true. Medicare For All would give every person in America the same coverage and we have nothing near that today. What you're claiming is simply not true. Ironically, those on Medicaid have less co-pays than many with Health Insurance. Many that simply go to emergency rooms when they are sick can't see a doctor for preventative care. Many in states that didn't expand Medicaid only have emergency rooms to go to when they are sick. No we don't have a form of Medicare for All. We have private health insurance policies for many, health care coverage provided through employers for many, Medicare for many, and Medicaid for some but not all. All of those have different levels of coverage. Your claim is erroneous no matter how many times you repeat it.


We have a form of medicare for all and have had it for over 100 years. Everyone can get medical help just go to the ER and you will be given it. Everyone at the ER is treated the same way and these are facts which neither you nor I can change. The big problem in improving our system is the people who think we do not have medical treatment for all, and the only way you can have a system for all is with one plan for all. You need a base plan for all which provides good treatment on an ongoing basis which we do not have, and should have. Medicare for over 65 is built on a base plan then added to. It is time to get real if you want improvements or keep taking into thin air about something  that is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes. You confuse Insurance with treatment and they are 2 different things. With a good base plan you do away with Insurance as we  it adds about 20%. Even large business with self insurance type policies save a little money. When all are in the pool you get the cheapest cost, when there is a single payer you get the cheapest costs. One big reason our system is so bad is due to the fact most people do not understand it, and can be used by the special interest groups for their benefit. The start of the ACA shows that in action.


I am done arguing with you about this. A hodge podge of health care with different coverage for everyone and some not even covered is nothing like a Medicare for All plan or any other country's Universal Health Care Plan. Sorry but you are  simply wrong.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Will the scapegoat be the establishment and the DNC next or will it be, Hillary?


Well, I think Bernie lost the election and this was just one of the factors.  I am sensitive to the antics of the Bernie Bros because they have created so much discord in the party without adding any value.  Had they decided to get involved and work towards a common agenda, Bernie would have been in a much better place. 


I couldn't agree more!  Good points.  There is something to be said for those with a "D" by their name....you are either a Democrat or you aren't.  If you get the privilege to run under a party and have an "I" by your name, you should actually consider the privilege....or run as an Independent.


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


I will say this again. We have a form of medicare for all, and have had it for well over 100 years. You see that come to the for front with the virus. Everyone will be treated whether they can pay or not. You see steps being taken to improve the ER Care section which is where you see most people who can not pay are in. There is a move under way to start and test the homeless for the virus as they know if they do not do that we will have more spikes that effect everyone.

The big mistake Bernie made was not starting from the point anyone in the US can get medical care now and have health care costs include all the costs in the ER Care section which includes a lot of costs in other budgets like Fire Dept. If he did that what he wanted to do would not have been a big jump in costs. I think it might have shown a saving.You do know with an improved medicare for all your Auto , Home, Renters, Liability, Life Insurance premiums would go down some as their are health care costs in those rates. Look at how much will be spent due to the virus, and all of that including what the restrictions now in place will cost us. That is all part of total health care costs.


You can say we have form Medicare For All until the cows come home and it just isn't true. Medicare For All would give every person in America the same coverage and we have nothing near that today. What you're claiming is simply not true. Ironically, those on Medicaid have less co-pays than many with Health Insurance. Many that simply go to emergency rooms when they are sick can't see a doctor for preventative care. Many in states that didn't expand Medicaid only have emergency rooms to go to when they are sick. No we don't have a form of Medicare for All. We have private health insurance policies for many, health care coverage provided through employers for many, Medicare for many, and Medicaid for some but not all. All of those have different levels of coverage. Your claim is erroneous no matter how many times you repeat it.


We have a form of medicare for all and have had it for over 100 years. Everyone can get medical help just go to the ER and you will be given it. Everyone at the ER is treated the same way and these are facts which neither you nor I can change. The big problem in improving our system is the people who think we do not have medical treatment for all, and the only way you can have a system for all is with one plan for all. You need a base plan for all which provides good treatment on an ongoing basis which we do not have, and should have. Medicare for over 65 is built on a base plan then added to. It is time to get real if you want improvements or keep taking into thin air about something  that is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes. You confuse Insurance with treatment and they are 2 different things. With a good base plan you do away with Insurance as we  it adds about 20%. Even large business with self insurance type policies save a little money. When all are in the pool you get the cheapest cost, when there is a single payer you get the cheapest costs. One big reason our system is so bad is due to the fact most people do not understand it, and can be used by the special interest groups for their benefit. The start of the ACA shows that in action.


I am done arguing with you about this. A hodge podge of health care with different coverage for everyone and some not even covered is nothing like a Medicare for All plan or any other country's Universal Health Care Plan. Sorry but you are  simply wrong.


Insurance and treatment are 2 different things. We need more treatment, and there are other countries who use base plans like we do in Medicare for over 65, and You find in many Group Insurance policies. We need people to understand the entire subject to move it forwarded.

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@john258 

"Just" go to the ER?  What about inoculations, well baby checks, mild flu, medical concerns?

 

Your solution is to wait until almost dead and then go to the most expensive provider of medical care possible. 

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@Richva wrote:

@john258 

"Just" go to the ER?  What about inoculations, well baby checks, mild flu, medical concerns?

 

Your solution is to wait until almost dead and then go to the most expensive provider of medical care possible. 


It is not my solution it is what we have now fact. What you talk about are not in the ER section now, and that is why I have said the ER Care is the most expensive and has the poorest outcome, and we should reduce that section by improving the other sections as the ACA was doing till Trump.

Now here is something for all the Dems who support the plan which Bernie put forwarded. By not knowing the full health care system we now have, and its total cost you do more to hurt ever getting to the plan you want. Fact is you are your own worst enemy. Read what I posted and it  tells you how to end the opposition being put forwarded by the far right and trump. They use the cost figures given by Bernie as why we should not have it. If you add all of the costs in our present Medicare for all approach which would include the ER section  I think  you will find our current system cost more than Bernie's system. If I am correct you take away what the opposition are using against the system. As I said before the Bernie supporters are their own worst enemy on this subject by not knowing the details  of the  subject. Now take the time and learn about health care and its costs, then fight for a different medicare for all system as we need one now.

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@ChasKy53 wrote:


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


Well, I have yet to see where "the party" doesn't accept it.  I would also point out that Biden ran on what he felt were good ideas and Bernie ran on what he thought was a good idea. Looks to me like the decision was in the hands of the voters.  Unlike Trump, Biden got the most votes.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


I do have to say that personally I think it is a crying shame that a person has to be something other than a Democrat to support and promote a Universal Health Care Plan like Medicare For All. Warren has in the past and so have other Dems who have basically dropped it because the Party doesn't accept it. What a shame, IMO.


Well, I have yet to see where "the party" doesn't accept it.  I would also point out that Biden ran on what he felt were good ideas and Bernie ran on what he thought was a good idea. Looks to me like the decision was in the hands of the voters.  Unlike Trump, Biden got the most votes.


Of course the Party doesn't accept it, The DNC doesn't and main stream Democrats for the most part don't.  I think it's a shame that all other developed nations have Universal Health care, most of them lead us in health statistics, and neither major political Party in America supports a Universal Health Care program like Medicare For All.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

Of course the Party doesn't accept it, The DNC doesn't and main stream Democrats for the most part don't.  I think it's a shame that all other developed nations have Universal Health care, most of them lead us in health statistics, and neither major political Party in America supports a Universal Health Care program like Medicare For All.


What do you mean "of course"?  Did I miss a memo or the the Democratic party change one of the planks of its position? No question we need universal health care but you were saying it had to be Medicare for all.  I am not sure that is reasonable.  There ARE other plans. 

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@Richva wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Of course the Party doesn't accept it, The DNC doesn't and main stream Democrats for the most part don't.  I think it's a shame that all other developed nations have Universal Health care, most of them lead us in health statistics, and neither major political Party in America supports a Universal Health Care program like Medicare For All.


What do you mean "of course"?  Did I miss a memo or the the Democratic party change one of the planks of its position? No question we need universal health care but you were saying it had to be Medicare for all.  I am not sure that is reasonable.  There ARE other plans. 


So name them.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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