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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 1 of 14

@gordyfl wrote:

Trump used the "can't be bought" narrative to help him beat Hillary.

 

She left Herself wide open for that type of attack because she was running all around, from mansion to mansion collecting the big donations, including Her Wall Street fundraisers.

Bernie was able to use the same narrative against Her because he stuck with his small grassroots donations. It was a big reason he did so well against the already pre-ordained candidate.

In the end, Bernie matched Hillary's total donations (not counting Her PACs and Super PACs.) Amazing.

 

In 2020 I doubt if Trump can use the same narrative. I heard that he had already collected $24 million by the end of his Orlando Rally. I suspect they are mostly big checks. But he has a different narrative this time - he's president, the economy, stock market, will work for...or against him.

 

I saw Valerie Jarrett on TV today talking about her new book to Christiane Armanpour. She read an excerpt from her book:

 

"To me, the thousands of what-ifs of the election all come down to one fact: nearly 43 percent of eligible voters did not vote. How could so many people, especially young people with so much to lose, feel so disempowered that they would shun their most basic and fundamental responsibiliy of citizenship - to vote."

 

I think you can trace that feeling of "disempowerment" back to "money" -- money in politics. Young people, Bernie supporters in particular, felt EMPOWERED when THEY were the ones financing his campaign -- not Wall Street, not Big Pharma, not the giant telecommunication companies. 

 

Trump is a populous candidate. We saw that on display in Orlando. The best way to beat a populous candidate is to run a populous candidate against him. Enthusiasm. Obama had it. Bernie had. Trump has it. 

 

trump orlando rally.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bernie rally crowd.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Biden's first rally in Philadelphia looked choreographed.

They must have been giving out free T-shirts for those

on stage. They're all wearing identical shirts.

Look how they're all folding their hands. 

What enthusiasm!

biden philly choreographed.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the numbers again:

1. Not true. Shae raised money from the people who would support her, and her group had more money than Bernie, and Bernie raised money from the people who would support him. Big money is in our elections now and sadly it will remain that way until people wake up to what is the real issue. All the nice no one should ask for money from the wealthy will not happen. The people elect people who got their money that way. Trump stole most of his money and they elected him. Hillary had the brains  to make a good President, but we got Trump who is lacking in that area. The people voted so you are on a dead end street until the way we elect changes. One difference between Bernie and Hillary's voters was a lot of Bernie went to Trump and we got Trump from that. Who raised the most money and how is a dumb topic unless you have a plan to change that, and there is no workable plan on the table.

2. In 2020 Trump will use the same approach if he has to, and sadly it will work with most of his supporters since we know from the experts they can not think to well. He collected 24 million in one day. He has been collecting money since took office. He has more money now than all the money the Dems have raised so far. I have seen estimates of a billion or more, and a lot of it is dirty money. So if the Dems do not go after all the money they can get from all types of people they will be out spent.

3. You do not know Trump. Go listen to what Michael Cohen told all. If Trump looses he will try and stay. Trump plays in a Mob world, and so does everyone around him. What excuse he uses to invoke parts of laws we know nothing about could surprise all. Doctors do not loose elections fair and square. You might not even see an election if he thinks he is sure to loose. Yes these are the times we live in.

4. I saw Valerie Jarrett also. It was a good interview.

5. Yes 43% did not vote now go look at what made up that group. First you have to take out the number that were prevented from voting by their State. Ga. would be a great example. Then find out how many were Bernie supporters. My guess you have a good part.

6. You seem really enamored by Bernie. If he wins the nomination I will vote for him over Trump. Bernie presents  himself as a true socialist, he will not even join the Dem party, but will run under their name. That is a problem. One has to look at what true socialism is. Govt. ownership of all major business. Talk to  the people of GB which tried that years ago and had to back off.

7. Trump is part of a movement to end everything our forefathers put into place after WW2 so we would stop having WW. That has worked and we see a world which has come closer together, people in all countries have risen in their way of living. What we have today is the rise of Dictatorship which was what we had most places prior to WW1. Steve Bannon is a leader in that. Trump is a Dictator in everything he does and has done for the last 60 years. To make it worse he is a corrupt Dictator, and destroys everyone, and every thing he touches.

8. Yes enthusiasm is needed but not the type Trump and Bernie have. If Trump had not got the R nomination a lot of his supporters would have stayed home or voted my guess Hillary.

 

Trump and Hitler are from the same mold. If you like Trump you would have liked Hitler as he started his regime.

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 2 of 14

Trump used the "can't be bought" narrative to help him beat Hillary.

 

She left Herself wide open for that type of attack because she was running all around, from mansion to mansion collecting the big donations, including Her Wall Street fundraisers.

Bernie was able to use the same narrative against Her because he stuck with his small grassroots donations. It was a big reason he did so well against the already pre-ordained candidate.

In the end, Bernie matched Hillary's total donations (not counting Her PACs and Super PACs.) Amazing.

 

In 2020 I doubt if Trump can use the same narrative. I heard that he had already collected $24 million by the end of his Orlando Rally. I suspect they are mostly big checks. But he has a different narrative this time - he's president, the economy, stock market, will work for...or against him.

 

I saw Valerie Jarrett on TV today talking about her new book to Christiane Armanpour. She read an excerpt from her book:

 

"To me, the thousands of what-ifs of the election all come down to one fact: nearly 43 percent of eligible voters did not vote. How could so many people, especially young people with so much to lose, feel so disempowered that they would shun their most basic and fundamental responsibiliy of citizenship - to vote."

 

I think you can trace that feeling of "disempowerment" back to "money" -- money in politics. Young people, Bernie supporters in particular, felt EMPOWERED when THEY were the ones financing his campaign -- not Wall Street, not Big Pharma, not the giant telecommunication companies. 

 

Trump is a populous candidate. We saw that on display in Orlando. The best way to beat a populous candidate is to run a populous candidate against him. Enthusiasm. Obama had it. Bernie had. Trump has it. 

 

trump orlando rally.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bernie rally crowd.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Biden's first rally in Philadelphia looked choreographed.

They must have been giving out free T-shirts for those

on stage. They're all wearing identical shirts.

Look how they're all folding their hands. 

What enthusiasm!

biden philly choreographed.jpeg

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 3 of 14

@gordyfl wrote:

Go back and study Citizens United. If you think people will stop supporting candidates who take big money I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Most people have not a clue on who that is, and a lot could care less.

 

We got Trump as President and his business record showed he never followed laws or norms, but people still voted for him. 

_________________________________

 

Go back and study the 2016 Election. One of Trump's selling points was - "He is so rich he can't be bought. He'll go to Washington and clean up the swamp."

I heard that from his supporters time and again. And if you look at polls you'll see that IS a good selling point to the average voter.

 

Here's a couple of polls showing how people feel about money in politics:

 

The vast majority in the U.S. — 84% — believe money has too much influence in political campaigns, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll.

 

The feeling cuts across party lines, with 80% of Republicans, 90% of Democrats and 84% of independents believing campaign cash plays too big a role.

 

And the general consensus is the current political campaign funding system needs a complete makeover.

 

While only 13% said only minor changes were needed, 39% want to see fundamental changes and 46% want it to be completely rebuilt.

 

++++++++++++++++++

 

85% of Americans think our political system is rigged

poll rigged washington times.png

 

 

 

 

Why are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders not fundraising at the homes of the rich and powerful? One reason is that they know it's not pleasing to the average voter. Another reason - they won't feel beholden to the big donors. They'll be beholden only to their many small donors. 

 

Why would Biden, Buttigieg and Harris go to the homes of the rich and powerful with their hands stretched out for donations? They want to win and feel that's the easiest, quickest way to get there. 

 

Just as in 2016 "Trump can't be bought" - The same can be said about Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren in 2020.


By the numbers.

1. You are correct about Citizens United and that proves my point about a lot of voting people. CU had the biggest effect on money in politics there is, and no steps have to be taken to correct that, and there is a good chance you can not do it by another law.

2. You are correct about Trumps point in the 2016 election that he is so rich he can not be bought, and proves my point about the average voter. The facts were he lied on all of that, the proof of that was available to all yet people voted for him. It was only a good selling point to what I call stupid people.

3. Forget the polls as they are nothing but a quick second snap shot, and can be manipulated by the way questions are asked. Talk is cheap but when it comes to not voting for people with a lot of money in their campaigns voters show they do not care in spite of the fact it can lead to someone like Trump being elected, and destroying the country.

4. It is great both you refer to are not taking big money right now. Bernie lost in 2016 and even though he supported Hillery a lot of his supporters did not. We all saw that play out in here where one was posting vote for Jill. Jill was on the Russian payroll to take votes away from Hillery and did, and we got Trump. Warren has never run on a National ticket yet. If she does she will take big money and it will not effect what she does as she has been and will be totally honest. That is why Obama could never get her as the first head of the CP agency.

5. Right now you need tons of money. That is our system like it or not. The far right gave us that system and we allowed that so people who run for office will go to the big donors for money. Trump will pay them back as he has proved after his last election. The ones you speak of are not far right and I think are running for the right reason so they like Warren will not change what they plan todo. The donors are accepting their goals rich and poor alike.

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 4 of 14

Go back and study Citizens United. If you think people will stop supporting candidates who take big money I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Most people have not a clue on who that is, and a lot could care less.

 

We got Trump as President and his business record showed he never followed laws or norms, but people still voted for him. 

_________________________________

 

Go back and study the 2016 Election. One of Trump's selling points was - "He is so rich he can't be bought. He'll go to Washington and clean up the swamp."

I heard that from his supporters time and again. And if you look at polls you'll see that IS a good selling point to the average voter.

 

Here's a couple of polls showing how people feel about money in politics:

 

The vast majority in the U.S. — 84% — believe money has too much influence in political campaigns, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll.

 

The feeling cuts across party lines, with 80% of Republicans, 90% of Democrats and 84% of independents believing campaign cash plays too big a role.

 

And the general consensus is the current political campaign funding system needs a complete makeover.

 

While only 13% said only minor changes were needed, 39% want to see fundamental changes and 46% want it to be completely rebuilt.

 

++++++++++++++++++

 

85% of Americans think our political system is rigged

poll rigged washington times.png

 

 

 

 

Why are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders not fundraising at the homes of the rich and powerful? One reason is that they know it's not pleasing to the average voter. Another reason - they won't feel beholden to the big donors. They'll be beholden only to their many small donors. 

 

Why would Biden, Buttigieg and Harris go to the homes of the rich and powerful with their hands stretched out for donations? They want to win and feel that's the easiest, quickest way to get there. 

 

Just as in 2016 "Trump can't be bought" - The same can be said about Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren in 2020.

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 5 of 14

@gordyfl wrote:

You do not do that by only going after one area. You go after all areas that supply the money.

 

You end big money by making sure Trump, and anyone with an R behind their name is defeated in 2020.

 

You put a total limit what what can be given per person.

 

I don't know who "You" is, but Democrats at one point controlled both chambers of Congress and the presidency and we don't have any of those laws you propose.

 

If you're expecting Congress to wave some sort of magic wand, all I can say is, don't hold your breath.

 

The simplest, and most effective way of all is for voters to refuse to vote for candidates who take the big money. 

 

Unfortunately, too many people consider it too radical of an idea. We'll wait for Washington to take care of it, they say.

 

Let's not forget the radical Franklin Delanoe Roosevelt...

 

 


Go back and study Citizens United. If you think people will stop supporting candidates who take big money I have a bridge to sell you. Most people have not a clue on who that is, and a lot could care less. We got Trump as President and his business record showed he never followed laws or norms, but people still voted for him. Go look at his standing now with Reb. It very well could be you need an amendment to the Constitution to get the money out now. Like it or not the Feds are going to have to take the lead. This is the real world and people better start looking at it that way if anything is going to get done.

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 6 of 14

You do not do that by only going after one area. You go after all areas that supply the money.

 

You end big money by making sure Trump, and anyone with an R behind their name is defeated in 2020.

 

You put a total limit what what can be given per person.

 

I don't know who "You" is, but Democrats at one point controlled both chambers of Congress and the presidency and we don't have any of those laws you propose.

 

If you're expecting Congress to wave some sort of magic wand, all I can say is, don't hold your breath.

 

The simplest, and most effective way of all is for voters to refuse to vote for candidates who take the big money. 

 

Unfortunately, too many people consider it too radical of an idea. We'll wait for Washington to take care of it, they say.

 

Let's not forget the radical Franklin Delanoe Roosevelt...

 

 

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 7 of 14

@gordyfl wrote:

The real issue is money in politics.

 

We can talk about dark money, Citizens United, or Trump leasing his private jet. 

 

We don't see Wall Street complaining much, except when they attack Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. 

 

The influence of big money in politics...

 

 


You are correct the influence  of big money in politics should be stopped. You do not do that by only going after one area. You go after all areas that supply the money. The far right has always pushed for big money, and Citizens United was a major milestone for them. You end big money by making sure Trump, and anyone with an R behind their name is defeated in 2020. Then you work for laws   that stop  all money from other than Indv. going into campaigns, and you put a total limit what what can be given per person. No tax deduction for what you give. Have a limited campaign time say July-Nov. no campaign material before that. Other countries do that. Free TV print  and air time to people running for office. Look at govt. funding of campaigns. There are I am sure other ways to look at also.

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 8 of 14

The real issue is money in politics.

 

We can talk about dark money, Citizens United, or Trump leasing his private jet. 

 

We don't see Wall Street complaining much, except when they attack Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. 

 

The influence of big money in politics...

 

 

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 9 of 14

@gordyfl wrote:

She still lost even though she outraised Trump. 

 

2016

 

Trump Fundraising: $436,392,694

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate?id=N00023864

 

Hillary's Fundraising: $769,879,088

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate?id=n00000019

 

bernie special interests_edited.jpg

 

 

 

 

 


What you leave out is the dark money and Trump had tons of it. You do know Trump made money on parts of his campaign. He used his airplane which is owned by one of his Cos. His campaign could lease that plane from the Trump owned firm which could charge as much as it wanted. The Co made a big profit which went right to Trump, and his campaign (money from others) paid for it. This is an example of one way Trump made money from his run. Trump had hotels, Country clubs, Condo bldg etc. He is still making money that way as President. How much does the SS pay for space in Trump Tower, and Margo Largo? She was not outraised by him.

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Re: The Wall Street Primary

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Message 10 of 14

She still lost even though she outraised Trump. 

 

2016

 

Trump Fundraising: $436,392,694

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate?id=N00023864

 

Hillary's Fundraising: $769,879,088

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate?id=n00000019

 

bernie special interests_edited.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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