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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 211 of 396
MIseker posted..

He is busy right now re manufacturing the russian boogeyman

===============================================
Back to the subject of this thread..

The far left (including recent Dem candidates) were really pushing "wealth redistribution". That comes directly from Marx - "From each....to each....".

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And..

The Socialist Party was included within the Progressive Movement.

And if you read what many that say they are Progressive they lean toward Socialism today....its easy to understand if one has a open mind.
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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 212 of 396

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
The progressive movement isnt defined in a you tube video done by someone with an agenda. FOr the most part, the progressive movement is over, and yet the very pepole that seek to wipe it out benefits from the policies it created. There are a few extreme progressive warriors out there on the stump, and they have followers. none of them are marxists, or communists. some have socialistic ideas, but they are all within the frameowrk of capitalism. Arguments made in the topic post, and its supporters, are poining at a boogeyman that doesnt, and probably never did really exist. Take heart tho ye paranoid, Lil Donnie is busy creating a new boogeyman in an attempt to unite us.

No it wasn't. One was a BBC piece on Marx himself and the other was a self-proclaimed Marxist telling of the wonders of the ideology. I believe the second one was based on an agenda - the guy is a Marxist. But the BBC one, I didn't see an agenda in there.

 

The far left (including recent Dem candidates) were really pushing "wealth redistribution". That comes directly from Marx - "From each....to each....".

 

I have no idea where you see "Lil Donnie" fitting into this discussion - and yet, there he is.


He is busy right now re manufacturing the russian boogeyman

 

So it begins.
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 213 of 396
Socialism in America

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1669.html

Roots of socialism in America

The roots of socialism in America can be traced to the arrival of German immigrants in the 1850s when Marxian socialist unions began, such as the National Typographic Union in 1852, United Hatters of 1856, and Iron Moulders` Union of North America in 1859. Theodore H. White, author of Fire in the Ashes: Europe in Mid-Century (1953) wrote, "Socialism is the belief and the hope that by proper use of government power, men can be rescued from their helplessness in the wild cycling cruelty of depression and boom."

Progress of socialism
The Socialist Party in America was born and grew dramatically between 1900 and 1912. Under the charismatic leadership of Eugene V. Debs in 1912, 160 councilmen, 145 aldermen, one congressman, and 56 mayors, including Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Berkeley, California, and Schenectady, New York, were elected as Socialists. At the time, Socialists published 300 newspapers, including the Appeal of Reason, which was a Kansas-based publication with 700,000 subscribers. Membership in the Socialist Party totaled 125,000.

Debs imprisoned
Debs converted to socialism while serving jail time for his part in the Pullman Strike in 1897, and began to edit the Appeal to Reason publication. From 1900 to 1920, he ran for president on the Socialist ticket while increasing membership to the Socialist Party tenfold. Although Debs insisted he was a Marxist, he spoke more about poverty and injustice than typical socialist concerns about the class struggle and the dictatorship of the proletariat (Marx).

In 1912, Debs received 900,000 votes, which was six percent of the presidential votes cast that year, principally for his stand against America`s involvement in World War I. Debs appealed to blue collar workers hungry for improved working conditions and higher wages, but also such intellectuals as authors Jack London and Upton Sinclair.

Debs campaign poster
Prominently with President Theodore Roosevelt and through the 20th century`s first years, the Progressive Movement came into view with its belief in “the perfectability of man, and in an open society where mankind was neither chained to the past nor condemned to a deterministic future; one which people were capable of changing their condition for better or worse."

The Socialist Party was included within the Progressive Movement. The party dealt with American problems in an American manner. Unlike the Communist Party, the Socialist Party at that time felt no obligation to adhere to an international party line. For example, socialists and other progressives campaigned at the local level for municipal ownership of waterworks, gas and electric plants, and made good progress in such endeavors. In 1911, there were 18 Socialist candidates for mayor, and they nearly won the Cleveland, Ohio, and Los Angeles,

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The Socialist Party was included within the Progressive Movement.

And if you read what many that say they are Progressive they lean toward Socialism today....its easy to understand if one has a open mind.
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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 214 of 396



@rk9152 wrote:


Marxism is an economic and governmental ideology that has lasted a long, long time. It has inspired a variety of models such as the Progressive Movement - and that is the topic.

 

 


Dear Rk.  frankly, if you continue to try to push your own definition of Maxism I will have to to to bathroom and puke.
No, that is not the topic, you have made it the topic. and your convoluted responses are the ones that should be edited and throwninto oblivion.
is there a way or are you simply laughing at all of us into bringing all of this nonsense and trying to actually make believe that this is what you really think? Please see that I am providing you the opportunity to say that it was all a joke. and that you really know what is Marxims, what is socialism and what is capitalism.
You cannot change what is, and Marxims has never been the Progressimve movement in America. we have proven it to you by putting all kinds of links disproving what you are saying.
As usual, you are not capable of understanding that although it is your right to believe whatever you wish. What you don't have the right is to try to push false ideas into a post.
You can continue until Hades freezes over, but, there is not way in Hades that people that think will buy into your statement.


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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 215 of 396

It's a bit incredible we still have someone who thinks Ike was a Commie, but there he is, trying to equate the 1952 and 56 Republicans Platform into a Marxist manifesto.

 

For 40 years the gap between rich and poor shrank EVERY YEAR. Then Reagan allowed the rich to keep all the profits the workers produced and ended revenue sharing with the states. The first not only stopped the growth of the Middle Class, it caused wages to DECREASE for the last 30 years so nobody even think's they've "got a shot to get as far as their old man got". The second shifted the ration of State vs Student funding of higher education from 75% from the State and 25% from the students to 20% from the States and 80% from the students so we now have the first generation of College grads who live in their parents basements because instead of going out and buying their own home, they have to pay off banks for their student loans for the next 20 years. Middle claqss parents who saw their income tax burden increase also saw the idea of "free" public education vanish - now they shell out hundreds of dollars each year to "rent" their kids text books and hundreds more if the kid wants to participate in any extra ciriculiar activity.

 

Folks, it does NOT have to be like this. All you need to understand is the Republicans have lied to you about Progressivism and how anything that Marx said will lead to the destruction of your Freedom. Stop electing the ninnies who have sacrificed your lives and your kids futures on the altar of Greater Wealth for the Top.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 216 of 396

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

I have to hand it to you, your post is amazing. first we discuss Progresisvism  and Marxism and unable to convince no one of  the poster's assertion, we then jump into the Widget Corp  model, and now to actually come out with the crown jewel. you bring up "the Constitution"!
How many other distractions does the poster think that  they can bring about in order to confuse or try to make others believe that his points of view are correct? And, Oh, I forgot, "the government" intervention.
This is not the discussion that will provide any positive results. LIke I have stated. you have the right to believe whatever you wish. but please, don't try to convince others of your point of view with oh,  such weak arguments.
Some are actually able to engage in more than one discussion. The Progressive one is more broadly based on the overall ideology of Marx and how it is ingrained in the Progressive movement.
This one is more specifically oriented towards the differing views of the best economic model.
Rich brought up "back then" and that was why my response went back to the Constitution. It seemed like a reasonable answer I gave Rich - do you disagree with it or are you just wanting me to not engage in discussions with points too "weak" for the meanings to be easily understood?
So, do you have anything to contribute about the best economic model for out Nation (the actual topic)??

.  


So you are wanting to change the topic of this thread -that you started- again. I guess too many people saw through your claim.


Not at all. I was being courteous to Rich and attempted to deal with his question. I hope you realize that merely insulting is not "seeing through" a claim.

 

So, back to the topic - is there anything in Marxism that you think might be good for America? And, if so, is there any political entity pushing it?


I was not referring to your response to Rich, I was referring to your last paragraph where you stated that the 'actual topic' was about the best economic model for our country which is not the same as what you posted in the first post.

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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 217 of 396

@rker321 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
The progressive movement isnt defined in a you tube video done by someone with an agenda. FOr the most part, the progressive movement is over, and yet the very pepole that seek to wipe it out benefits from the policies it created. There are a few extreme progressive warriors out there on the stump, and they have followers. none of them are marxists, or communists. some have socialistic ideas, but they are all within the frameowrk of capitalism. Arguments made in the topic post, and its supporters, are poining at a boogeyman that doesnt, and probably never did really exist. Take heart tho ye paranoid, Lil Donnie is busy creating a new boogeyman in an attempt to unite us.

@MIseker wrote:
The progressive movement isnt defined in a you tube video done by someone with an agenda. FOr the most part, the progressive movement is over, and yet the very pepole that seek to wipe it out benefits from the policies it created. There are a few extreme progressive warriors out there on the stump, and they have followers. none of them are marxists, or communists. some have socialistic ideas, but they are all within the frameowrk of capitalism. Arguments made in the topic post, and its supporters, are poining at a boogeyman that doesnt, and probably never did really exist. Take heart tho ye paranoid, Lil Donnie is busy creating a new boogeyman in an attempt to unite us.

Thank you a well thought post. for saying what we all know. that Conservatives always say, that anyone that doesn't agree  with them is automatically called a Socialist or a Communist. 


I didn't see that in this topic. I certainly didn't see any "boogeyman". And as to that last part - are you saying there aren't Socialists around? In fact, I believe there are posters who think socialism is a good idea - you know, post offices and roads.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 218 of 396

@MIseker wrote:
The progressive movement isnt defined in a you tube video done by someone with an agenda. FOr the most part, the progressive movement is over, and yet the very pepole that seek to wipe it out benefits from the policies it created. There are a few extreme progressive warriors out there on the stump, and they have followers. none of them are marxists, or communists. some have socialistic ideas, but they are all within the frameowrk of capitalism. Arguments made in the topic post, and its supporters, are poining at a boogeyman that doesnt, and probably never did really exist. Take heart tho ye paranoid, Lil Donnie is busy creating a new boogeyman in an attempt to unite us.

No it wasn't. One was a BBC piece on Marx himself and the other was a self-proclaimed Marxist telling of the wonders of the ideology. I believe the second one was based on an agenda - the guy is a Marxist. But the BBC one, I didn't see an agenda in there.

 

The far left (including recent Dem candidates) were really pushing "wealth redistribution". That comes directly from Marx - "From each....to each....".

 

I have no idea where you see "Lil Donnie" fitting into this discussion - and yet, there he is.

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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 219 of 396

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

I have to hand it to you, your post is amazing. first we discuss Progresisvism  and Marxism and unable to convince no one of  the poster's assertion, we then jump into the Widget Corp  model, and now to actually come out with the crown jewel. you bring up "the Constitution"!
How many other distractions does the poster think that  they can bring about in order to confuse or try to make others believe that his points of view are correct? And, Oh, I forgot, "the government" intervention.
This is not the discussion that will provide any positive results. LIke I have stated. you have the right to believe whatever you wish. but please, don't try to convince others of your point of view with oh,  such weak arguments.
Some are actually able to engage in more than one discussion. The Progressive one is more broadly based on the overall ideology of Marx and how it is ingrained in the Progressive movement.
This one is more specifically oriented towards the differing views of the best economic model.
Rich brought up "back then" and that was why my response went back to the Constitution. It seemed like a reasonable answer I gave Rich - do you disagree with it or are you just wanting me to not engage in discussions with points too "weak" for the meanings to be easily understood?
So, do you have anything to contribute about the best economic model for out Nation (the actual topic)??

.  


So you are wanting to change the topic of this thread -that you started- again. I guess too many people saw through your claim.


Not at all. I was being courteous to Rich and attempted to deal with his question. I hope you realize that merely insulting is not "seeing through" a claim.

 

So, back to the topic - is there anything in Marxism that you think might be good for America? And, if so, is there any political entity pushing it?

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Re: The Progressive Movement

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Message 220 of 396

@pc6063 wrote:

 I see all this talk about Marxism as just another diversion away from the fact that Trump is a horrible president who wastes taxpayer money and has no idea what he's doing as nor do the people around him.  I know that some posters will want support for this so I suggest that they read a credible newspaper listen to a credible news source.   More support for my statements will be found there than any American  should ever want to find.


Marxism is an economic and governmental ideology that has lasted a long, long time. It has inspired a variety of models such as the Progressive Movement - and that is the topic.

 

The Trump jazz is the diversion. Example - what in your post above addressed Marxism or Progressivism?

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