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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 11 of 33
Part of Country's long post..

KidBoy2 You didn't respond to what I said but you want me to respond to what you said, ok!

Do you have a crystal ball over there to know what Bernie will or won't get through Congress??

Bernie is not popular just with the young! You must be listening to much to the media and not looking at the crowds! You also must not know he has the highest approval rating of any US Sitting Senator or you would know his popularity is among older people, too!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please read my post! I posted....

"Bernie is popular with the young as they think they are entitled to this and entitled to that. He will not get what he wants or should."

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Your long post about what Sanders has done does not list one bill that he introduced.

You are dreaming if you think Bernie or for that matter any one running can get what they want but Bernie is so far out with his free this and free that he takes first place in being unrealistic ...and that is why the uninformed love him...something for nothing works.
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 12 of 33
KidBoy2 You didn't respond to what I said but you want me to respond to what you said, ok!

Do you have a crystal ball over there to know what Bernie will or won't get through Congress??

Bernie is not popular just with the young! You must be listening to much to the media and not looking at the crowds! You also must not know he has the highest approval rating of any US Sitting Senator or you would know his popularity is among older people, too!!

NO President gets everything! And glad you asked what Bernie has accomplished and sure hope you read all of this Smiley Happy

http://www.alternet.org/election-20...shing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you

Election 2016
Bernie Gets It Done: Sanders' Record of Pushing Through Major Reforms Will Surprise You
What kind of experience does Bernie Sanders have? Let's take a look.
By Zaid Jilani / AlterNet
October 17, 2015

“I'm a progressive, but I'm a progressive who likes to get things done,” Hillary Clinton said at the first Democratic debate, in response to a question from moderator Anderson Cooper about whether she defines herself as a moderate or a progressive.

The implication was that progressive Bernie Sanders is too far to the left to accomplish anything—all of his ideas are pie-in-the-sky. You have to be able to find the bipartisan, “warm, purple space” as Clinton said earlier this year, to get anything done. Slate's Jamelle Bouie was super-impressed by this rationale, saying Clinton has “skilled use of bureaucratic power.”

The problem with this narrative is that it is completely false. Not only has Sanders gotten a lot more things done than Clinton did in her own short legislative career, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, both big and small, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.

The Amendment King

Congress is not known to be a progressive institution lately, to say the least. Over the past few decades, the House of Representatives was only controlled by the Democrats from 2007 to 2010, and a flood of corporate money has quieted the once-powerful progressive movement that passed legislation moving the country forward between the New Deal era and the Great Society. Yet, as difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members.

Bernie Sanders was first elected to the House of Representatives in 1990, and many immediately doubted his efficacy. “It is virtually impossible for an independent to be effective in the House,” said then-Congressman Bill Richardson (D-NM). “As an independent you are kind of a homeless waif.” Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), today an outspoken advocate for Hillary Clinton, said Bernie's “holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”

As if things didn't look bad enough, in 1994 the Republicans swept into power in the House of Representatives, dashing the hopes of many that Congress could do anything progressive whatsoever. But Sanders was not content with tilting at windmills. He didn't want to just take a stand, he wanted to pass legislation that improved the United States of America. He found his vehicle in legislative amendments.

Amendments in the House of Representatives are often seen as secondary vehicles to legislation that individual members sponsor, but they are an important way to move resources and build bipartisan coalitions to change the direction of the law. Despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives between 1994 and 2006, the member who passed the most amendments during that time was not a right-winger like Bob Barr or John Boehner. The amendment king was, instead, Bernie Sanders.

Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:

Corporate Crime Accountability (February 1995): A Sanders amendment to the Victims Justice Act of 1995 required “offenders who are convicted of fraud and other white-collar crimes to give notice to victims and other persons in cases where there are multiple victims eligible to receive restitution.”

Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers (April 1998): In an amendment to H.R. 6, the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, Sanders made a change to the law that allowed the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education to make competitive grants available to colleges and universities that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services.

Holding IRS Accountable, Protecting Pensions (July 2002): Sanders' amendment to the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003 stopped the IRS from being able to use funds that “violate current pension age discrimination laws.” Although he faced stiff GOP opposition, his amendment still succeeded along a 308 to 121 vote.


Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001): You wouldn't think Republicans would agree to an expansion of funds for community health centers, which provide some free services. But Sanders was able to win a $100 million increase in funding with an amendment.

Getting Tough On Child Labor (July 2001): A Sanders amendment to the general appropriations bill prohibited the importation of goods made with child labor.

Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004): Sanders won a $22 million increase for the low-income home energy assistance program and related weatherization assistance program.

Fighting Corporate Welfare and Protecting Against Nuclear Disasters (June 2005): A Sanders amendment brought together a bipartisan coalition that outnumbered a bipartisan coalition on the other side to successfully prohibit the Export-Import Bank from providing loans for nuclear projects in China.

Once Sanders made it to the Senate in 2006, his ability to use amendments to advance a progressive agenda was empowered. Here are some of the amendments he passed in the Senate:

Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.

Protecting Our Troops (October 2007): Sanders used an amendment to win $10 million for operation and maintenance of the Army National Guard, which had been stretched thin and overextended by the war in Iraq.

Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers.

Helping Veterans' Kids (July 2009): A Sanders amendment required the Comptroller General to put together comprehensive reporting on financial assistance for child care available to parents in the Armed Forces.

Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required “public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors” – an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.

Support for Treating Autism in Military Health Care: Sanders worked with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) to pass an amendment by a vote of 66-29 ensuring that the military's TRICARE system would be able to treat autism.

Using the Power of a Senator

While Sanders was an amendment king who was able to bring bipartisan coalitions together to make serious changes to laws, he also knew how to be a thorn in the side of the establishment until it offered up something in return. Sanders was able to get the first-ever audit of funds given out by the Federal Reserve, which made transparent over $2 trillion of funds handed out by the secretive organization. This was a cause that Republican congressman Ron Paul (TX) had been pursuing for decades, but Sanders was able to get the votes to do it by forging a compromise that required an audit for the bailout period alone.

When the Affordable Care Act was in danger of not having the votes to pass, Sanders used his leverage to win enough funding for free health treatment for 10 million Americans through Community Health Centers. This gutsy move—holding out until the funds were put into the bill—has even Republican members of Congress requesting the funds, which have helped millions of Americans who otherwise would not have access.

Another moment came when Sanders, who was then chair of the Veterans committee, worked with Sen. John McCain (R-**bleep**), to overhaul the Veterans Administration. McCain praised Sanders' work on the bill in an interview with National Journal. Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) even went so far as to say the bill would never have passed without Sanders' ability to bring the parties to a deal.

His Theory of Change, From Burlington to the White House

The big question is, can Sanders translate his time as an effective senator into an effective president? After all, a legislative job is different than an executive job.

But Sanders has a theory of change, in order to be an executive who can pass progressive policy even in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. He frequently talks about a “political revolution” that means vastly increasing voter turnout and participation in political activities so conservative lawmakers and Big Money are unable to overwhelm public opinion. During the Democratic debate, this line had its doubters, from former Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) to a skeptical Anderson Cooper.

Sanders is probably not so unsure of himself. After all, he's done it before. When Sanders was mayor of Burlington, Vermont, one of his big accomplishments was to increase civic life in the city. During the course of his terms, voter turnout doubled. In his eight years as mayor, he rejuvenated a city that was considered by many to be dying, laying out progressive policies that cities around the country later adopted, and he did all this without particularly alienating Republicans. As one former GOP Alderman noted, he implemented ideas from the Republican party that he felt were not particularly harmful to working people, such as more efficient accounting practices.

It's easy for the establishment media and politicians to make the assumption that Bernie Sanders is not an effective lawmaker or executive. He has strong convictions and he stands by them, and we're often told that makes one a gadfly—someone who is out to make a point rather than make an actual change. But with Sanders we have the fusion of strong principles and the ability to forge odd bedfellow coalitions that accomplish historic things, like the audit of the Federal Reserve or the rejuvenation of Burlington that has served as a model for cities around the country. “Don't underestimate me,” Sanders said at the beginning of the race, words that anyone who knows his political and policy history take to heart.

End of article....

Don't tell me we can't afford Bernie's plans! I am sure Wall Street can afford the tax on Speculators to pay for college and don't tell me closing the loopholes on Corporations that don't pay taxes will hurt them, either! And as far as a higher tax in the place of premiums/deductibles to have Medicare for all I feel sure most people won't mind paying a higher tax to SAVE a lot of money in premiums/deductibles but of course there might be some people that rather pay more for health care premiums and deductibles!
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 13 of 33

@KidBoy2 wrote:
Country posted..

With all the tax refunds to Corporations that don't pay taxes and the Wall Street Bail Out, it's plain to see where Republicans want the free money to go KidBoy2 !! Oh and yes, money for endless wars without paying for it, there's that, too Smiley Happy

==============================================

Please respond to what I posted ... if you can...again..

Sorry, but Bernie if elected will not get his wish list thru Congress.

Bernie is popular with the young as they think they are entitled to this and entitled to that. He will not get what he wants or should.

It sounds good to talk about free this and free that...but its not free...our national debt is at 19 Trillion and the things Bernie wants could double that without raising taxes so high that many businesses that are in the US will move overseas.

Everyone LOVES something for nothing ..but in reality it will not work or happen.

What has Bernie accomplished in his years in Congress?

Please respond to what I posted KidBoy. Why don't you? I say it's because I always denounce just about everything you say. I responded to all of your bunk in my last post and you didn't respond, but then you have the audacity to demand that Countryme responds to you.  Hmmmm ........... hypocritical, don't you think?


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 14 of 33
Country posted..

With all the tax refunds to Corporations that don't pay taxes and the Wall Street Bail Out, it's plain to see where Republicans want the free money to go KidBoy2 !! Oh and yes, money for endless wars without paying for it, there's that, too Smiley Happy

==============================================

Please respond to what I posted ... if you can...again..

Sorry, but Bernie if elected will not get his wish list thru Congress.

Bernie is popular with the young as they think they are entitled to this and entitled to that. He will not get what he wants or should.

It sounds good to talk about free this and free that...but its not free...our national debt is at 19 Trillion and the things Bernie wants could double that without raising taxes so high that many businesses that are in the US will move overseas.

Everyone LOVES something for nothing ..but in reality it will not work or happen.

What has Bernie accomplished in his years in Congress?
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 15 of 33
With all the tax refunds to Corporations that don't pay taxes and the Wall Street Bail Out, it's plain to see where Republicans want the free money to go KidBoy2 !! Oh and yes, money for endless wars without paying for it, there's that, too Smiley Happy
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 16 of 33

KidBoy2 wrote: (chasky53 in blue text)


Sorry, but Bernie if elected will not get his wish list thru Congress.
Then maybe we need to get some of the Republicans out of Congress. Bernie will loudly expose what the Washington Republicans are all about ....... taking care of the Elites.

Bernie is popular with the young as they think they are entitled to this and entitled to that. He will not get what he wants or should.
Many middle age and older folks like me support Bernie Sanders and it has nothing to do with anything that is free. Everyone would have equal access to good health care.
It sounds good to talk about free this and free that...but its not free...our national debt is at 19 Trillion and the things Bernie wants could double that without raising taxes so high that many businesses that are in the US will move overseas.
Bernie doesn't talk about "free this" and "free that", neither do his supporters.  Only you have very erroneously mentioned that. Show data that it will double the debt, you can't. Bernie's plan outlines exactly how it is paid for.  And saying that many businesses will move over seas is as bogus as it gets, all empty RW rhetoric, nothing factual.

Everyone LOVES something for nothing ..but in reality it will not work or happen.
What is Bernie offering for nothing KidBoy, since those are your words, not his?

What has Bernie accomplished in his years in Congress?
Don't you know? What has any of the Right Wing candidates accomplished in office?


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 17 of 33
CountryMe posted..

Oh, I know you are right about the smears but I don't think it will phase any of his supporters. Think about 9 months ago when hardly anyone had heard of Bernie Sanders. I had followed his record for a few years so I already know what he stood for and said from the beginning don't underestimate him and now look at his poll numbers after only having 3 percent? The more people get to know who he is, his record, then I believe he will have a even greater amount of supporters. Of course, I could be wrong, as anything can happen in politics. I remember how they smeared Obama (I didn't vote for him) but I didn't even fall for some of those smears. Didn't people call him a terrorist? Or imply it? I don't think it would be any harder for Bernie Sanders than some of the things they threw at Obama.

===========================================

Sorry, but Bernie if elected will not get his wish list thru Congress.

Bernie is popular with the young as they think they are entitled to this and entitled to that. He will not get what he wants or should.

It sounds good to talk about free this and free that...but its not free...our national debt is at 19 Trillion and the things Bernie wants could double that without raising taxes so high that many businesses that are in the US will move overseas.

Everyone LOVES something for nothing ..but in reality it will not work or happen.

What has Bernie accomplished in his years in Congress?

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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 18 of 33

Sen. Jeff Ses­sions, who served on the Budget Com­mit­tee with Sen.Sanders, said that while the two couldn’t be more op­pos­ite ideo­lo­gic­ally, they still share a mu­tu­al re­spect.And it would go something like, ‘We need to tax the rich, we’ve got too many poor.’ And I said, ‘That’s right. We’ve got so much gov­ern­ment, so much taxes, we really, you know, cre­ated the poor. It’s your prob­lem,’ ” Ses­sions grinned. “But you know, I’ve al­ways re­spec­ted Bernie and we’ve got­ten along per­son­ally well.”

 

Sen. John Mc­Cain, who ne­go­ti­ated the VA deal with Sen.Sanders gave the in­de­pend­ent high praise, not­ing that “his word is good.”

But he ac­know­ledged that Sanders can be can­tan­ker­ous, adding with a laugh: “Both of us have that repu­ta­tion.”

 

Sen. Jack Reed used the term “ex­tremely en­er­get­ic” to de­scribe Sen.Sanders  “Last year when we had the scan­dal at the VA, he was in­cred­ibly ef­fect­ive, en­gaged in get­ting the le­gis­la­tion passed.“And it was a great test­a­ment to his skill as a le­gis­lat­or.”

 

Sen.Sanders has a sys­tem, said Sen. Sher­rod Brown,  “He would call them ‘tri­part­ite amend­ments’ be­cause we’d have him and he’d get a Re­pub­lic­an, he’d get a Demo­crat and he’d pass things. He’s good at build­ing co­ali­tions,” Brown said.

 

Sen.Sanders says it’s all about do­ing things “the old-fash­ioned way,” find­ing “people from both parties who you can work with.”In that, Sen.Sanders has been sur­pris­ingly suc­cess­ful.

 

 

“I learned early on not to be auto­mat­ic­ally dis­missive of a Bernie Sanders ini­ti­at­ive or amend­ment,” said Re­pub­lic­an Sen. Ro­ger Wick­er  Wick­er said that he has been sur­prised by how of­ten their ideo­lo­gic­al in­terests align

 

But even Re­pub­lic­an mem­bers who balk at those ideo­lo­gic­al pushes say that But even Re­pub­lic­an mem­bers who balk at those ideo­lo­gic­al pushes say that when Sen. Sanders sees something that needs to get done, he’s more than will­ing to do what it takes to get there.

 

Sen.BurrSen­at­or Sanders un­der­stands what it takes to get le­gis­la­tion across the goal line.”

 

“Clearly if you want to get any­thing done, you have to work with mem­bers of Con­gress and you have to work with mem­bers of both polit­ic­al parties,” Sen.Sanders said. “I have done that and as pres­id­ent, I cer­tainly would do that.

 

 

 

 

 

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Ben Franklin Quote
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Message 19 of 33
Olderscout66 you need to realize I was a Republican and leaving the party to vote for someone that most matches my views and that is Bernie Sanders. I am not leaving the party to vote for Hillary. I understand many wrongs in the Republican party or obviously I would not leave and vote for Bernie Sanders!

I don't like the Wall Street Supporters in the Republican Party or the hate or the greed but I also will not vote for a Wall Street Supporter in the Democratic Party.

I know I am not the most popular here because I won't share all the views of people in one party or the other. I don't like the Republicans or I would still be one LOL I don't like Hillary, I don't like her flips, I don't trust her, and she is a Wall Street supporter and I know you and others think that she is better than any Republican and for sure you should vote for who you want to vote for but I just don't see enough difference between the two on the issues that I care the most about Smiley Happy and the issues she does say she is for that I am for because she was against them before she was for them I don't trust her! Maybe if there were issues that affected me that I believed she would be fighting for I would vote for her but that is not the case, either!
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Re: The Most Disingenuous Attack On Bernie Yet...

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Message 20 of 33


@Quackers wrote:

@loveabull wrote:

I think labeling him "Socialist" was a bad move on his part. Those who went through the Cold War...Socialist and Commie are too linked there. He's Jewish, okay they can overlook not a G-d fearing Christian...okay we might get past that. But since so many don't really understand the actual meaning of Socialist...he's a Commie.


Exactly. If Bernie were to get the nomination it would take the GOP less than a hot second to start hammering away that he's a commie. The swift boating of John Kerry would be mild in comparison.


Which he could survive IF the Democrats who wanted Hillary instead get out and VOTE. But Bernie's supporters need to stop thinking they will only vote if their guy gets the nomination. Enough of this "Democrats must fall in love with their candidate" - its the sure way to LOSE the White House and cede the House to the Gerrymander again in 2016.

 

Compare all the damage you think Hillary might do with what you must KNOW will be done with Republicans controlling the White House and the Congress. If thatdoesn't change you mind, then you haven't been listening to the Republicans.

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