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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 1 of 31

@pc6063 wrote:

 

Your constant return to the past seems just another in a long line of diversionary tactics, used when there is nothing left one can say to defend an authoritarian immoral thug, who happens to have wormed his way into our WH.  All other discussions are not only off topic, but a waste of time for all. 

 

Based on your very small area of interest, there is little point to attempting to have an adult discussion with you anything deeper than, "spewing out both ends".

 

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 2 of 31

@rker321 wrote:


Hillary Clinton once the server issue was made public, she should have had the sense to back off the election. and whether or not she should have been prosecuted or not, is something that now we really cannot answer with any kind of accuracy.

The reason that the President Taxes are important is not because we want to see how much Trump made or didn't make. but because of the situation of the collusion with Russia it makes sense to see what kind of businesess he has had with that country,that could be a conflict of interest, especially if he is going to be the architect of a Tax cut program that could be beneficial for his own interests.
Apparently Comey did not asked for money or more agents for the Russia investigation. although under the circumstances, the FBI may find themselves really needing more resources to be able to conduct a proper investigation.

 

Apparently that family has no concept of ethics in regards to their business. Jared's family was trying to sell visas to the Chinese and made the error to put Jared's name as a"come on" to acquire people to get with the program. 
No one is saying that what they were doing was illegal, it is just horrible that Americans can and are willing to sell their country for money.


There have been the claims in the past that his tax records were important because maybe he isn't as rich as he claimed, or he wasn't as generous as he claimed. And now it is about his dealings, as a businessman, with foreign nations. IRS records are for the purpose of determining tax liability - period. They are not intended for political fishing expeditions

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 3 of 31

@rk9152 wrote:

mick - if one is to put an emphasis on ethics when presenting their case, they cannot try to act as though ethics were just invented. If lack of ethics (a very subjective term) is to be the downfall of our nation, then past ethical lapses that we survived are certainly appropriate to consider.

 

Hillary Clinton was not exonerated by the FBI. The Director specifically pointed out the laws she broke but redefine the law to say, "But she didn't mean to" and therefore she was not prosecuted. And the DOJ - are you forgetting the "tarmac summit"? Just consider the classified data on Weiner's laptop and see if you really think whe was innocent (except in the "until proven guilty" sense).

 

Tax records of a private citizen and evidence as to activities in the Oval Office are different.

 

Since it was testified last week that the FBI had not asked for more money for the Russian inquiries, you'll have to rethink your Big Mac theory.


Semantics and Partisan Gobbleygook.............................

 

At least Right Now Until Today at least the Rule of Law is the bedrock of our System of Justice......................not Ethics Morals or Personal Opinions

 

Everyone is presumed Innocent - even Trump - until the Investigation produces Facts that compell the Justice System to Prosecute

 

Multiple Investigations found no Facts that warranted Clinton be prosecuted

 

In the Trump Scenario - Partisanship is preventing a Comprehensive Investigation

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 4 of 31

RK-- The fact is that there were no charges placed against Hillary, which I know really upsets you.  

 

  There was never any proof that anything illegal happened on the tarmac, although I will grant you that it was really a stupid thing for Mr. Clinton to have done.

 

Your constant return to the past seems just another in a long line of diversionary tactics, used when there is nothing left one can say to defend an authoritarian immoral thug, who happens to have wormed his way into our WH.  All other discussions are not only off topic, but a waste of time for all. 

 

There is an extreme lack of ethics with regard to the trump administration. That is the truth of the  present.  This is the reality.  

 

Just exactly who testified that there was no request for additional funds so that the investigation into trump's collusion with the Russians could go forth?  I have heard the antithesis of this.  Please give source and/or quote from a credible source. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 5 of 31

@rk9152 wrote:

mick - if one is to put an emphasis on ethics when presenting their case, they cannot try to act as though ethics were just invented. If lack of ethics (a very subjective term) is to be the downfall of our nation, then past ethical lapses that we survived are certainly appropriate to consider.

 

Hillary Clinton was not exonerated by the FBI. The Director specifically pointed out the laws she broke but redefine the law to say, "But she didn't mean to" and therefore she was not prosecuted. And the DOJ - are you forgetting the "tarmac summit"? Just consider the classified data on Weiner's laptop and see if you really think whe was innocent (except in the "until proven guilty" sense).

 

Tax records of a private citizen and evidence as to activities in the Oval Office are different.

 

Since it was testified last week that the FBI had not asked for more money for the Russian inquiries, you'll have to rethink your Big Mac theory.


Hillary Clinton once the server issue was made public, she should have had the sense to back off the election. and whether or not she should have been prosecuted or not, is something that now we really cannot answer with any kind of accuracy.

The reason that the President Taxes are important is not because we want to see how much Trump made or didn't make. but because of the situation of the collusion with Russia it makes sense to see what kind of businesess he has had with that country,that could be a conflict of interest, especially if he is going to be the architect of a Tax cut program that could be beneficial for his own interests.
Apparently Comey did not asked for money or more agents for the Russia investigation. although under the circumstances, the FBI may find themselves really needing more resources to be able to conduct a proper investigation.

 

Apparently that family has no concept of ethics in regards to their business. Jared's family was trying to sell visas to the Chinese and made the error to put Jared's name as a"come on" to acquire people to get with the program. 
No one is saying that what they were doing was illegal, it is just horrible that Americans can and are willing to sell their country for money.

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 6 of 31

mick - if one is to put an emphasis on ethics when presenting their case, they cannot try to act as though ethics were just invented. If lack of ethics (a very subjective term) is to be the downfall of our nation, then past ethical lapses that we survived are certainly appropriate to consider.

 

Hillary Clinton was not exonerated by the FBI. The Director specifically pointed out the laws she broke but redefine the law to say, "But she didn't mean to" and therefore she was not prosecuted. And the DOJ - are you forgetting the "tarmac summit"? Just consider the classified data on Weiner's laptop and see if you really think whe was innocent (except in the "until proven guilty" sense).

 

Tax records of a private citizen and evidence as to activities in the Oval Office are different.

 

Since it was testified last week that the FBI had not asked for more money for the Russian inquiries, you'll have to rethink your Big Mac theory.

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 7 of 31

@rk9152 wrote:

@Albion61 wrote:


 


Depart, troll.

 

Again - thank you, mick. It certainly was a topic that could have lead to a lively discussion.


 


The Topic Devolved Right After You Made Your First Post - Shown in Quotes Below

 

"This emphasis on ethics is strange in a discussion about authoritarianism. Obviously, Bill Clinton had no ethic when it came to women. Hillary had no ethics when it came to that private server. And they both had no ethics when it came to selling the office of SecState to enrich the family business. Then there is Obama - was it ethical and in keeping with our traditions and institutions to politicize the DOJ, the State Department, the IRS, and who knows what else for partisan purposes."

 

"Please understand I am not questioning the need for ethics. I am just questioning the selective interest"

 

1. There was nothing in the article about - Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton- Never the Less Since you diverted the discussion from policy and ideology to Personal Issues - Bill Clinton Was Held Responsible by A Republican Majority in Congress - We see no such credible attempt by the current Republican Controlled Congress - During Clintons Investigation and Trial - Republicans Subpoenaed A Dress so they could test it for Bodily Fluids - During The Trump Investigation The Republican Majority in Congress Won't Even Subpoena Trumps Tax Returns to do a Financial DNA Analysis to see if they reveal Russian - Turkish - Egyptian - Saudi - Phillipino - Financial Fluids

 

2. Hillary Clinton was Investigated by another Republican Controlled Congress and exonerated - Hillary Clinton was also Investigated by the FBI and Justice Departments and once again exonerated - The Current Republican Controlled Congress To Date Has Done Nothing Investigative - All they have embarked upon is a review of some of the documents already obtained and investigated by the FBI and the rest of the Intelligence Agencies of the US Government - They Could Have Simply Read The Summaries from the US Intelligence Agencies Already Complied and the Conclusions of the Investigations and Reviews of said Documents To Date

 

As with everything else - FOLLOW THE MONEY -  and the Truth in this case instead of setting him free would convict Trump Inc........................Just the Clinton Server Investigation Cost US Tax Payers hundreds of millions of dollars - but the Budget and Staff dedicated to Not The Body Fluids of a Blue Dress or the Contents of a Private Server but the Interference By a Known Enemy State of the USA into a attempt to destroy the credibility of the roots & pilllars of our Democracy - so far those budgets equal about the same amount of money that would be required to keep Trump supplied with Big Macs & Double Cheese Burgers for a Week and the number of Congressional Staff is equal to the number of McDonalds staff required to make Trumps Happy Meals  - Congressional Committees and the FBI have been repeatedly rebuked by a Republican Controlled Congress when asked for more money - staff and resources

 

You're Welcome

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 8 of 31

@Albion61 wrote:


 


Depart, troll.

 

Again - thank you, mick. It certainly was a topic that could have lead to a lively discussion.


 

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 9 of 31


It's never good to see a vacuous comment from you. Your comments are meant to soil the conversation, to deface it with the equivalent of paint thrown on it, meant for the other person to clean up so they can't move the conversation forward. Depart, troll.


What a strange comment about the suggestion that we actually discuss the topic mick offered.

 

And even stranger, two posters thought that offensive "non-discussion" post was worthy of a kudo. It may be that the art of conversation truly is dead here.


Depart, troll.

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Re: The Authoritarian States of America - can it survive?

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Message 10 of 31

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Albion61 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Albion61 wrote:


FDR's Vice-President Henry Wallace laid it out very well during WWII, describing fascists and their tactics. In this essay, his grandson shows that Wallace is very relevant today. If the hob-nailed boot fits Trump and the Republicans, can they still wear wing-tips?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/opinion/american-fascism-trump.html

 

Mr. Wallace, you referred to those only interested in their own wealth. Sir, do they not exist in both Parties? You mentioned "super-nationalists" - I would suggest that to a "one world" believe, rational nationalism becomes "super".

 

My grandfather warned about hucksters spouting populist themes but manipulating people and institutions to achieve the opposite. They pretend to be on the side of ordinary working people — “paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare,” he wrote. But at the same time, they “distrust democracy because it stands for equal opportunity.”

 

Is this not a common ploy of the "From each.....; to each....." aficionados?

 

Just about all of the article could easily be seen as the ways of the left. And remember "Authoritarianism" is not the sole property of the Right.



Depart, Troll.


It's always good to see an adult, thought provoking comment. And really good to see such personal, vapid responses get a kudo - says a lot for both.

 

Come on guys (generic), mick offered an interesting, thought provoking topic. Can we not go deeper than this?


That's not likely unless one is looking forward to standing on one's head in the cesspool of conservative rationalization that is quaintly mistaken by conservatives for "thought".


Another interesting perspective for a discussion board - alternate views are cesspools not to be considered. 

 

And - 2 more kudos. AARP must be so dismayed by the way their discussion boards are going. They tried to render a valuable service by giving adults a place to gather and discuss the issues of the day - and it has come down to this.

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