TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 11 of 25

The rest of the story . . . . .

How a new funding method might work for Social Security

.http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/12/15258672/social-security-trump-tax-reform

Just an idea being kicked around -

 

 

 

 


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 12 of 25

@sp362 wrote:

@byrondennis wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

byrondennis,  Regardless of what you think about Michael Hiltzik, you do realize what this proposal means?  Of course it is being advertised as saving a working person 6.2% and also saves the company they are working for 6.2%.  So, do you think all of these companies will immediately give this extra money they are saving back to their employees, or will they just keep it as an extra profit?


Sorry but I find it very hard to comment on a "proposal" that does not exist. This is the second day in a row that the same commenter (chronological comment 1) has posted basically the same fake news. Yesterday I gave my comment on the actual AP story referenced by Hiltzik, which -- by the way -- was nothing like what Hiltzik claimed the AP wrote.


The "proposal" means they are talking about doing it.  Here is a news source that you probably accept.  It is in paragraph 9.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/10/trump-administration-back-to-square-one-on-tax-reform.htm...


1. No, that is not what the word "proposal" means. "Talking about doing" something does not mean the same thing as "proposal" in English. There is no proposal anywhere in public that I can find that relates to eliminating the SS payroll tax. But irrelevant to that...

2. Unbelievably you simply provided me a link back to the same AP story (only I looked at it on the actual AP web site--I always go to the source, something sorely lacking here) that I commented on yesterday. It's an AP article that  -- as I wrote earlier on this thread -- bears no resemblance to what Mr. Hiltzik of the LA Times claims the AP wrote.

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 13 of 25

Albion61- as I have said before,  whether people are cognizant of what Trump is doing to damage them or not, they will eventually pay the price, no matter how much disingenuous blather they post.

  One thing I used to tell my students is is if that the majority of the people react to what you have to say or what you do in the same way, it's not the other people,  it's you!  

When Republican posters  keep getting the same criticism over and over again,  when Republican posters are told that their posts contain  unsubstantiated information,  when they are told and shown over and over again how damaging the Trump administration's exicts are, one would think they might begin to understand  that the problem is with their beliefs and the man they support.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 14 of 25

Here's a good example of the first rule of conservative conversation - "if you can't refute him, attack him." Your evidential article is not good enough to engender the harshness of your criticism without something else entering in there. That would be rightist ideology, correct? Mr. Hiltzik's constant defense of the people Republican schemes focus upon, the poor, various minorities, and victims of various corporate excess, make him a target of the right. How did the Reagan - O'Neill deal in 1983 fundamentally change Social Security? It didn't. They don't hand out Pulitzer Prizes to laughingstocks and your blather puts you the ranks of just another uninformed Republican. If you don't know something, it's not hard to find it out online these days, is it?

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 15 of 25

@byrondennis wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

byrondennis,  Regardless of what you think about Michael Hiltzik, you do realize what this proposal means?  Of course it is being advertised as saving a working person 6.2% and also saves the company they are working for 6.2%.  So, do you think all of these companies will immediately give this extra money they are saving back to their employees, or will they just keep it as an extra profit?


Sorry but I find it very hard to comment on a "proposal" that does not exist. This is the second day in a row that the same commenter (chronological comment 1) has posted basically the same fake news. Yesterday I gave my comment on the actual AP story referenced by Hiltzik, which -- by the way -- was nothing like what Hiltzik claimed the AP wrote.


The "proposal" means they are talking about doing it.  Here is a news source that you probably accept.  It is in paragraph 9.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/10/trump-administration-back-to-square-one-on-tax-reform.htm...

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 16 of 25

The Social Security Administration has maintained a website of descriptions of other country's programs including details on funding mechanisms.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/

 

I have read about (2) such countries that use general revenues, with the origins based in a VAT, to fund their rather extensive social security programs.  Australia and New Zealand - there could be more.

 

Many of the OECD countries use a VAT to fund part or all of many of their social programs, including their health care coverage systems.

 

What is the harm in evaluating other methods?  What is the harm of determining if something else might work better whether or not it takes the place of or is used in combination with.

 

I am not pro or con on this line of thinking but it does warrant an open mind, rather than a closed one.  

 

Just st because the program has always been done this way does not determine if it is the best way especially when it is going through these times of financial problems and something needs to be done to assure it financially for the long term.  

 

The number of workers supporting beneficiaries has already gone way, way down.  In 1950, there was 16 workers for every beneficiary, now it is down to a little over 2.  If we continue to move towards automation, we may need to look at other ways to fund this SS program than by workers, cause machines don't get a salary.

 

I just have an open mind as to all the ideas to save the system for the long term.

 

 

 


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 17 of 25

@sp362 wrote:

byrondennis,  Regardless of what you think about Michael Hiltzik, you do realize what this proposal means?  Of course it is being advertised as saving a working person 6.2% and also saves the company they are working for 6.2%.  So, do you think all of these companies will immediately give this extra money they are saving back to their employees, or will they just keep it as an extra profit?


Sorry but I find it very hard to comment on a "proposal" that does not exist. This is the second day in a row that the same commenter (chronological comment 1) has posted basically the same fake news. Yesterday I gave my comment on the actual AP story referenced by Hiltzik, which -- by the way -- was nothing like what Hiltzik claimed the AP wrote.

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 18 of 25

If the Republican Plutocrats Cut the Payroll Tax ( FICA ) guess what happens to our current Social Security recipients ?  

 

When the $$$ stops flowing in - ITS GONE AND SO ARE YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS !!!

 

Work your whole life and today's Republicans have our Senior's and Disabled live in fear , so the insanely Wealthy can do even better !!! Give today's business owners another tax cut , while turning your back on those counting on Social Security now or in the near future.

 

Thanks again Hillary Haters. Remember which party you voted for while they Dismantle Social Security. The Republicans have at least the next 2 years in control of everything to stuff their Plutocratic agenda down our throats.

 

Wake up folks !!!

 

 

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 19 of 25

@sp362 wrote:

byrondennis,  Regardless of what you think about Michael Hiltzik, you do realize what this proposal means?  Of course it is being advertised as saving a working person 6.2% and also saves the company they are working for 6.2%.  So, do you think all of these companies will immediately give this extra money they are saving back to their employees, or will they just keep it as an extra profit?


Nothing is for certain until it is done.  It is another way to undermine and weaken the SS concept in the name of savings in 'taxes'.  The probability companies will keep the 6.2% and justify it as a 'deserved' tax break is high. IF this goes ahead, you will also hear a false equivalency that the employee got a tax break and the company should too. 

 

Lost in all this is the fact that the money collected goes into an account the employee can tap into upon retirement OR personal emergencies.  The personal emergencies part is little different from any other insurance, public or private, that offers benefits for premium paid. 

 

Our RRR 'friends' would have you believe otherwise.  Social Security is a program for those who 'can not or will not' do it for themselves. You want it, you pay for it.  Our RRR 'friends' would like

to conceal the costs to society of NOT doing something like SS.  That is a deliberatee untruth, of course.  See the RRR for what they are, not what they pretend to be.

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Re: TRUMP'S PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAX

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Message 20 of 25

The Greed never ends for the Wealthy like Trump. Our CEO's were doing just fine in 1970 making 30 times more than the average worker , but by 2000 that same CEO was making 400 times more. What changed ?

CEO's outsourced our jobs , eliminated Pensions, removed Company provided Healthcare and now want to give themselves another raise by Cutting FICA , which in turn dismantles OUR Social Security.

 

These elected Republicans , who are back stabbing our working class need to be told to leave OUR Social Security alone. Any Cut to the Social Security payroll Tax will KILL SOCIAL SECURITY !!!

 

Only a fool would believe otherwise. These Plutocrats on Steroids must be stopped !!! 

 

Thanks again Hillary Haters !!!

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