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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 21 of 39

Highly progressive income taxes are essential for a democracy. It's just like when your kids divide the cake for desert - you NEVER let the one who cuts the slices pick the first piece.

That's what the 1964 tax brackets did - when the ones who get to divide the profits made their distribution, they realized every dollar they kept for themselves would have 91 cents go the the Federal Gov't and another nickle go to State and city so they'd only get to keep 4 cents.

 

They hated their workers, but they hated the Government more, so they gave 96% of all the productivity increases to the workers, and the middle class grew like topsy.

 

This also paid for REVENUE SHARING the distribution of Federal Taxes back to the States so they didn't have to raise THEIR taxes to pay for infrastructure and everybody who could pass the tests would get a college education WITHOUT borrowing a dime.

 

The fact is the bottom half of society has NEVER been required to pay the tazes that support the civilization - they need every dime to provide for their families, so forcing them to pay taxes will do nothing but increase misery. That untaxed 50% had "SKIN IN THE GAME" to a degree unheard of in todays Uberrich - that pre-60's bunch became the Greatest Generation when they won WWII instead of doctoring X-rays like Cadet Bonespurs.

 

Let's restore the middle class before it vanishes altogether by restoring the tax brackets (adjusted for inflation) that made America Great for 40 years and scrap the Reagan taxscam that is turning us into a 3d world country with Nukes.

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 22 of 39

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Almost half of all people pay no net income taxes so the 51% are already supporting the 49%. Several from the left feel that the correct formula for taxes are to have higher limits to the graduated income taxes so that we could conceivably have is 30% of the highest earners supporting the lowest 70% earners.  With that level of disparity, why should the 70% have ANY voice in government since they're NOT paying for it?

 

That is the sole reason for coming up with new schemes to tax the already overtaxed, like Climate Change taxes.

 

You can say it's only fair, but to who?


So you want a plutocracy instead of a republic? How unamerican is that?


Do you really consider almost half the population paying no taxes while the burden is laid on the rest to be "plutocracy".


Not getting a say in government (which is what Not Happening seems to advocate) because they aren’t paying for it epitomizes plutocracy, something our founding fathers fought so hard to prevent. People who understand history and government, as our founding fathers did, knew that democracy and representational government for all people only work when people are relatively equal. They thought long and hard about how to keep Americans equal. Because of its unique nature and seemingly limitless land that it could just take (from Indians, but nevertheless), there was very little economic inequality at the beginning of our country’s history.  And they knew, because history and political philosophers showed them, that if power (which is wealth) becomes too lopsided, democracies fail. 

 

The founding fathers knew about anacyclosis. The cycle of governance in history. Monarchies turn into tyrannies. Uprisings take power and shift it to landed aristocracies.  Aristocracies turn into oligarchies.  Uprisings destroy oligarchies and wealth diffuses enough to create a middle class. And middle classes enable democracies. 

 

But then democracies see wealth consolidation and turn into plutocracies. Which create such an income/power imbalance that then turns into mob rule, often lead by a demagogue. 

 

They worked really hard to create a mixed type of representational government specifically to avoid that. And other American leaders made changes along the way to try to prevent massive accumulation of wealth among a tiny few. Jackson let non-property owners vote. The 16th amendment allows a progressive income tax that taxes the wealthy more than the poor.  

 

You give governmental power mostly to the wealthy and you destroy America. 

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 23 of 39

Funny how the right is always afraid of having something taken from them and lack any sort of vision. 

Good for this new young Representative coming out to support something good for all of us. 

Going Green isn’t about losing. It’s about

gaining a lead in clean energy technology, creating new good paying jobs, having clean air and water, and a stable environment, heathy living, and leaving good living conditions for today’s youth and future generations. 

What’s wrong with that?

 

Never Forget

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 24 of 39

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Almost half of all people pay no net income taxes so the 51% are already supporting the 49%. Several from the left feel that the correct formula for taxes are to have higher limits to the graduated income taxes so that we could conceivably have is 30% of the highest earners supporting the lowest 70% earners.  With that level of disparity, why should the 70% have ANY voice in government since they're NOT paying for it?

 

That is the sole reason for coming up with new schemes to tax the already overtaxed, like Climate Change taxes.

 

You can say it's only fair, but to who?


So you want a plutocracy instead of a republic? How unamerican is that?


Do you really consider almost half the population paying no taxes while the burden is laid on the rest to be "plutocracy".

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 25 of 39

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Taxes are the price we pay for Civilization. This was true for Julius Caesar in 45 BCE and it's true today.

 

In the 1960's, America was the envy of the World - we had the highest standard of living, the best schools, the best infrastructure and the longest lifespans. We also had TWO billionaires - Howard Hughs and JP Getty.  In 1964, our National Debt was $312Billion, 46% of GDP

 

Then we cut taxes on the rich by 70%, increased taxes for the middle class by 48%, and now have the 17th best standard of living, 27th best schools, 14th best infrastructure, and are the ONLY modern country where our life expectancy (now #31) is DECREASING. And we have 540 Billionaires. In 2018 our National Debt was 21.6TRILLION, 99% of GDP.

 

The Republican Party has had FORTY YEARS to deliver on their promise that lower taxes on the rich would benefit EVERYONE, and they FAILED MISERABLY.

 

Way past time to return to what WORKED for all Americans, and stop listening to the Greedy Old People for advice on our children's future.


Yes, taxes are essential to support our government. However, using taxes to take money from one person and give it to another (your wealth redistribution) is hardly "supporting our government".

 

As to "FAILED MISERABLY" - how about a boosted economy and more jobs - is that failing by your standards? It probably is since it results in more people being independently able to support themselves and their families rather than depending on the government or their needs.

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 26 of 39

@afisher wrote:

Well okey doke, some old folks will never believe in Science.  Be ignorant, wear it proudly.   

 

The RW whine:  we shouldn't waste money - as they celebrated and cheered for the millions of dollars that GOP burned to investigate HRC and could never find and illegal wrong doing.     

 

These same people who are whining about doing research because it cost money, but instead celebrate that the debt has been increased and the public debt ( yes your tax dollars) is now at an astounding 15.8T along with another 5.8 T...so now the national debt is $21.7 T. (2018)     Insert a picture of a dumb and dumber RW here:  


Oh my and sigh, another aficionado of silly pictures.

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 27 of 39

@Olderscout66 wrote:

We need to stop worrying what will happen to the poor little snowflakes who earn $1,000,000 each year without having a real job and concentrate on making America the greatest civilization on Earth - A place where our citizens enjoy a higher, more enjoyable standard of living than anyone else.

 

From 1936 until 1965, we got along GREAT with a TMR of 91%, which meant those at the very top contributed an average of 68% of their income and were forced to squeek by on a mere 20 times what the middle 60% netted after taxes. Even with that high income tax rate, the rich got richer every year, BUT the middle got richer faster, and the gap between rich and poor SHRANK.

 

We are facing two monumental issues - Climate Change and the increasing obsolence of human labor.

 

Within our children's lifetime, we as a Nation will have to deal with the greatest human migration in history as sea levels displace over 1/3d of all the people on Earth and increased temperatures alter the growing season of our most productive cropland. Where will we live and what will we eat?

 

While this is happening, automation will make it possible to satisfy all our material needs with input from less than half the adult population. What will we do with all that "surplus" labor?

 

The answer to those INEVITABLE problems is NOT more billionaires.


This really isn't about "snowflakes" (as you call the accomplished) and their money. It is about our system in which a person is entitled to that which they earn. I understand that is the antithesis of your "wealth redistribution" desire but it is what it is - at least until you get your revolution.

 

And, yes, there is continual change in the work place. As an example the end of assembly line jobs and the rapid rise of technology jobs has had a severe impact - which you blame on the Reagan tax cuts. 

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 28 of 39

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Almost half of all people pay no net income taxes so the 51% are already supporting the 49%. Several from the left feel that the correct formula for taxes are to have higher limits to the graduated income taxes so that we could conceivably have is 30% of the highest earners supporting the lowest 70% earners.  With that level of disparity, why should the 70% have ANY voice in government since they're NOT paying for it?

 

That is the sole reason for coming up with new schemes to tax the already overtaxed, like Climate Change taxes.

 

You can say it's only fair, but to who?


So you want a plutocracy instead of a republic? How unamerican is that?

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 29 of 39

Almost half of all people pay no net income taxes so the 51% are already supporting the 49%. Several from the left feel that the correct formula for taxes are to have higher limits to the graduated income taxes so that we could conceivably have is 30% of the highest earners supporting the lowest 70% earners.  With that level of disparity, why should the 70% have ANY voice in government since they're NOT paying for it?

 

That is the sole reason for coming up with new schemes to tax the already overtaxed, like Climate Change taxes.

 

You can say it's only fair, but to who?

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Re: THE 'GREEN NEW DEAL': A RADICAL MANDATE FOR GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

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Message 30 of 39

Taxes are the price we pay for Civilization. This was true for Julius Caesar in 45 BCE and it's true today.

 

In the 1960's, America was the envy of the World - we had the highest standard of living, the best schools, the best infrastructure and the longest lifespans. We also had TWO billionaires - Howard Hughs and JP Getty.  In 1964, our National Debt was $312Billion, 46% of GDP

 

Then we cut taxes on the rich by 70%, increased taxes for the middle class by 48%, and now have the 17th best standard of living, 27th best schools, 14th best infrastructure, and are the ONLY modern country where our life expectancy (now #31) is DECREASING. And we have 540 Billionaires. In 2018 our National Debt was 21.6TRILLION, 99% of GDP.

 

The Republican Party has had FORTY YEARS to deliver on their promise that lower taxes on the rich would benefit EVERYONE, and they FAILED MISERABLY.

 

Way past time to return to what WORKED for all Americans, and stop listening to the Greedy Old People for advice on our children's future.

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