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Treasured Social Butterfly

Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

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Message 11 of 137

jims730656 wrote:

Richva wrote:

jims730656 wrote:

Good solutions, but only IF the guns and ammo are bought through legal channels.

That's been the biggest failing of any effort to ban, restrict or modify most anything to date.

 

The best and most immediate example would be hard drugs.  Illegal as all hell but despite the government's 'best' efforts we are awash in cheap Heroin and its use is skyrocketing (as are OD deaths) and more people are in jail for drug offenses than any other single reason.  Yet the drug trade flourishes right under our noses.


You are trying to compare an agricultural product with a machine tool and there is no analogy.  The drug problem exists in many countries while Ameica is the only country with multiple mass shootings each year so it is obviously our lack of attempt in controlling firearms and ammunition, not  some sort of natural law. When you can manufacture bullets and assault rifles in your backyard, you can claim a point. 


WHY is it so hard for some people to understand what a simple ANALOGY is? 

 

In this case the analogy is an illustration of how something being outlawed doesn't make it go away.  It doesn't even have to specifically be drugs or guns.  It could be booze in the 20s, or banned books, or underage sex.  Too often the very ACT of banning something not only does little to eliminate it, but it very often makes even MORE people want is just because it IS banned.

Do you understand now?

 

a·nal·o·gy

"a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification"


Because the analogy of drug crime with use of firearms is like comparing the use of lawn mowers with the number of deaths in sewing machine accidents........

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Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

207 Views
Message 12 of 137

Richva wrote:

jims730656 wrote:

Good solutions, but only IF the guns and ammo are bought through legal channels.

That's been the biggest failing of any effort to ban, restrict or modify most anything to date.

 

The best and most immediate example would be hard drugs.  Illegal as all hell but despite the government's 'best' efforts we are awash in cheap Heroin and its use is skyrocketing (as are OD deaths) and more people are in jail for drug offenses than any other single reason.  Yet the drug trade flourishes right under our noses.


You are trying to compare an agricultural product with a machine tool and there is no analogy.  The drug problem exists in many countries while Ameica is the only country with multiple mass shootings each year so it is obviously our lack of attempt in controlling firearms and ammunition, not  some sort of natural law. When you can manufacture bullets and assault rifles in your backyard, you can claim a point. 


WHY is it so hard for some people to understand what a simple ANALOGY is? 

 

In this case the analogy is an illustration of how something being outlawed doesn't make it go away.  It doesn't even have to specifically be drugs or guns.  It could be booze in the 20s, or banned books, or underage sex.  Too often the very ACT of banning something not only does little to eliminate it, but it very often makes even MORE people want is just because it IS banned.

Do you understand now?

 

a·nal·o·gy

"a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification"

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

209 Views
Message 13 of 137

Hey Rk   and how many guns do you have. 10. 20, 30, 50?  and how many rounds of ammunition.? just asking, I would be going down to Boca Raton, and was trying to avoid  getting on your bad side. LOL

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Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

200 Views
Message 14 of 137

jims730656 wrote:

Good solutions, but only IF the guns and ammo are bought through legal channels.

That's been the biggest failing of any effort to ban, restrict or modify most anything to date.

 

The best and most immediate example would be hard drugs.  Illegal as all hell but despite the government's 'best' efforts we are awash in cheap Heroin and its use is skyrocketing (as are OD deaths) and more people are in jail for drug offenses than any other single reason.  Yet the drug trade flourishes right under our noses.


You are trying to compare an agricultural product with a machine tool and there is no analogy.  The drug problem exists in many countries while Ameica is the only country with multiple mass shootings each year so it is obviously our lack of attempt in controlling firearms and ammunition, not  some sort of natural law. When you can manufacture bullets and assault rifles in your backyard, you can claim a point. 

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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

197 Views
Message 15 of 137

MIseker wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Richva wrote:
  • Limit the rate of fire for any long gun to that of a bolt action rifle
  • Limit the capacity of any long gun to 6 rounds
  • Limit the number of rounds which can be purchased in any two week period to 20
  • Require that the used brass be returned in order to purchase any new rounds. 

 

Simple, easy rules which will prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future. 


You are trying to limit the number of victims. But the Texas tower shooter did a lot of damage without an automatic. Lee Harvey Oswald did too. The Washington Beltway snipers didn't use automatics.

 

I appreciate your idea of reducing the numbers, but I really think we have to try to go deeper into why this happens, not just "how many?".

 

Sadly, when this sort of thing happens, some seize on it to play politics or to simply vent their spleens over their "enemies list" like the NRAGOP post. And then the white privilege aspect and the "white Christian" comment.


Im glad you seee oswald as non political.

It seems, as always, you "seee" things through your own strange prism. When did I say anything about that?

Looking into the mental aspects takes a long time, costs a lot of money, and would have minimal impact on annual gun deaths.

So what - "not worth the effort" because you have determined the impact after extensive research which you have not shared.

The reason they kill each other in the inner city is they think life is cheap..worthless. \

Another case of SomeBLM.

Your study in tandem with sensible control is the answer, and I wont toss Rch's ideas out of hand.


 

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Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

203 Views
Message 16 of 137

rker321 wrote:

Jim  welcome to this board. glad you like to discuss politics and this is the board for that.
Of course you will have to understand that many will probably disagree with you, but no matter we all love to hear from you and your opinions.
I realize the guys love their guns and their memories. being a female, I don't care about guns I have no memories about guns, and I don't like them.

But I do leave that one for the guys and their opinions. Mine, no one in this forum would like. because If I had the power there would be no guns.
So you see, I am on the other side of the track. on this one

Nevertheless, provide us with the opportunity to hear your opinions and for me to criticize them if I can  LOL>


Thanks for the welcome, but I don't think I'll be posting quite as often as the last few days (I just can't shut up sometimes)

 

As far as people disagreeing with me, I've been discussing this stuff for about 30 years of so, as basically a moderate, independent nonpartisan centrist I've had more people  DISagreeing with me than agreeing.  So trust me, people WILL disagree.  There ain't no 'probably' about it.

 

As for your stance on guns in general, as far as I'm concerned, all opinions are welcomed and as long as it's a civil, non-personal discussion I'll talk to anyone about anything.  I can still respect people even if they disagree.

 

[edit] I have to edit this response because things have changed.  I see yet another troll on this thread.  If I'm seeing two of them in one single thread, it's more than I have time to waste on.  So I'm done with this forum as I have more substantial things to do with my time.  And just when I was starting to like this site.  Oh well.

So thanks again for the kind welcome, but I'm through here.

 

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Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

197 Views
Message 17 of 137

BigLib wrote:

MIseker wrote:

 

 


Half of the argument for gun control goes off the rails if you are talking about a complete gun ban ( if thats what you are doing ) most of this country is rural, and tons of people grew up hunting. NOT as murderers, but seeing a gun as a necessary tool in the box. and no more than that. between my sons and i we inherited over 20 long guns ( one relic assault rifle from WWII) from my long lived extreme hunter/fisherman Dad, who did this during the depression to help feed his family. There are millions of us..I wouldnt be supried if we are the silent majority on this issue while the peopla at eash end of the argument have nothing but a stalemate. My neighborhood is the same..R&D side by side, most have one Gun some are avid hunters; the ones like me returning to the neighborhood grew up hearing gunfire from hunting or target shooting..and had/have no fear of it. 

 

Every last responsible gun owne I know has no Idea why the gun nutters and totally anti gun peole control the debate. My oldest son..who has the most of the guns, goes into a snit ( cant repeat his words here ) when common sense legislation doesnt go anywhere. Few of us are in the NRA, because they are nuts, the ones that are NRA are only in it because the local conservation club requires it to be a member. ( there are really good benefts from the NRA for clubs with 100% membership... the one good thing they do).

happy debating Smiley Happy I respect all views that can be supported in this debate. And yes, banning all guns has its merits..yes indeed. but hey..some of us are cold dead hands people..that support gun control. Dont alienate your allies. 


No, not talking a complete ban. Richva actually had very sane, rational ideas in limiting the number of rounds that can be purchased in a given time period. And guess what, I own two guns myself. A complete ban isn't necessary.

 

At the same time, something has to be done. If your kid keeps wrecking the car, you take the keys away for a while. Maybe a gun (or ammo) moratorium is what we need. We certainly need a federal registry, without question. There can be sane, rational limits to these things, too. Again, would the limits last forever? Depends.

 

Some things could be banned, too. Read an article today that Paddock was seeking tracer rounds, but couldn't get them, because the vendor was out of stock, or else he would have had them. Could you imagine the carnage if Paddock had had them?? I shudder to think of it. I can't think of any situation where a private citizen would need tracer rounds.

 

 


A lot of things can be banned. One of the selling points of an assault rifle is that its shorter than a typical hunting rifle. gun technology is well enough advanced we dont need toys to make us look like we are playing soldier. 

So it begins.
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Valued Social Butterfly

Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

204 Views
Message 18 of 137

rker321 wrote:

Jim  welcome to this board. glad you like to discuss politics and this is the board for that.
Of course you will have to understand that many will probably disagree with you, but no matter we all love to hear from you and your opinions.
I realize the guys love their guns and their memories. being a female, I don't care about guns I have no memories about guns, and I don't like them.

But I do leave that one for the guys and their opinions. Mine, no one in this forum would like. because If I had the power there would be no guns.
So you see, I am on the other side of the track. on this one

Nevertheless, provide us with the opportunity to hear your opinions and for me to criticize them if I can  LOL>


As a female gun owner myself, one of the things I don't understand is the need to constantly be in contact with a gun. I know exactly where they are, and where the keys for the trigger locks are, but I have not actually touched either gun in YEARS. And I'd be the first in line to gladly turn them in for peace on Earth.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (8 pages of lies and growing)
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Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

201 Views
Message 19 of 137

MIseker wrote:

 

 


Half of the argument for gun control goes off the rails if you are talking about a complete gun ban ( if thats what you are doing ) most of this country is rural, and tons of people grew up hunting. NOT as murderers, but seeing a gun as a necessary tool in the box. and no more than that. between my sons and i we inherited over 20 long guns ( one relic assault rifle from WWII) from my long lived extreme hunter/fisherman Dad, who did this during the depression to help feed his family. There are millions of us..I wouldnt be supried if we are the silent majority on this issue while the peopla at eash end of the argument have nothing but a stalemate. My neighborhood is the same..R&D side by side, most have one Gun some are avid hunters; the ones like me returning to the neighborhood grew up hearing gunfire from hunting or target shooting..and had/have no fear of it. 

 

Every last responsible gun owne I know has no Idea why the gun nutters and totally anti gun peole control the debate. My oldest son..who has the most of the guns, goes into a snit ( cant repeat his words here ) when common sense legislation doesnt go anywhere. Few of us are in the NRA, because they are nuts, the ones that are NRA are only in it because the local conservation club requires it to be a member. ( there are really good benefts from the NRA for clubs with 100% membership... the one good thing they do).

happy debating Smiley Happy I respect all views that can be supported in this debate. And yes, banning all guns has its merits..yes indeed. but hey..some of us are cold dead hands people..that support gun control. Dont alienate your allies. 


No, not talking a complete ban. Richva actually had very sane, rational ideas in limiting the number of rounds that can be purchased in a given time period. And guess what, I own two guns myself. A complete ban isn't necessary.

 

At the same time, something has to be done. If your kid keeps wrecking the car, you take the keys away for a while. Maybe a gun (or ammo) moratorium is what we need. We certainly need a federal registry, without question. There can be sane, rational limits to these things, too. Again, would the limits last forever? Depends.

 

Some things could be banned, too. Read an article today that Paddock was seeking tracer rounds, but couldn't get them, because the vendor was out of stock, or else he would have had them. Could you imagine the carnage if Paddock had had them?? I shudder to think of it. I can't think of any situation where a private citizen would need tracer rounds.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (8 pages of lies and growing)
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Re: Stephen Paddock: Another white terrorist

178 Views
Message 20 of 137

MIseker wrote:
by the way, one or both of us had youthful experience with the black market

Absolutely.  And in the context of the definition I posted earlier I would say almost everyone has had a brush with the black market at one point or another in their lives.  Sometimes without even knowing it.

It could be something obvious,  like when some guy approached me in the parking lot last year and offered to sell me a brand new I-Phone for $50 (no, I didn't buy it), or not so obvious,  when the kid from down the block sells you "his" bicycle for five bucks.

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