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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 1 of 299

@rker321 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Medicare is a program people pay into and are served by in retirement. That is not "single payer" which covers everyone at all times.

 

The VA is a specific program designed to serve a specific set of clients. Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.


Really  and have posters then  insult those people and denigrate those people and called them TAKERS  because  taxes may go to serve those individuals.?    Besides, we already have Medicaid and we have all seen the badmouthing that has accompany those programs.


When "we all" saw the bad-mouthing of Medicare, what did "we all" see? Did "we all" see comments about inefficiency? Did "we all" see comments about it not covering enough. Just what did "we all" see that "we all" are talking about?


As usual  your posts  are precious.   When we were speaking about a health care for the poor, I believe that is what I was referring to. MEDICAID    and I can just see the amount of complains that we have seen in this message board about the TAKERS and  what they think if one penny of their  money would go into these types of programs. so. remember what you have stated in previous  posts.


Right you are - "we all " can just substitute  MEDICAID for MEDICARE and then define just what "we all" are talking about.

 

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 2 of 299

@rk9152 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Medicare is a program people pay into and are served by in retirement. That is not "single payer" which covers everyone at all times.

 

The VA is a specific program designed to serve a specific set of clients. Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.


Really  and have posters then  insult those people and denigrate those people and called them TAKERS  because  taxes may go to serve those individuals.?    Besides, we already have Medicaid and we have all seen the badmouthing that has accompany those programs.


When "we all" saw the bad-mouthing of Medicare, what did "we all" see? Did "we all" see comments about inefficiency? Did "we all" see comments about it not covering enough. Just what did "we all" see that "we all" are talking about?


As usual  your posts  are precious.   When we were speaking about a health care for the poor, I believe that is what I was referring to. MEDICAID    and I can just see the amount of complains that we have seen in this message board about the TAKERS and  what they think if one penny of their  money would go into these types of programs. so. remember what you have stated in previous  posts.

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Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 3 of 299

Medicare is the most cost effective health care system in our country. Their big problem is fraud.

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 4 of 299

@rker321 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Medicare is a program people pay into and are served by in retirement. That is not "single payer" which covers everyone at all times.

 

The VA is a specific program designed to serve a specific set of clients. Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.


Really  and have posters then  insult those people and denigrate those people and called them TAKERS  because  taxes may go to serve those individuals.?    Besides, we already have Medicaid and we have all seen the badmouthing that has accompany those programs.


When "we all" saw the bad-mouthing of Medicare, what did "we all" see? Did "we all" see comments about inefficiency? Did "we all" see comments about it not covering enough. Just what did "we all" see that "we all" are talking about?

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 5 of 299

@gordyfl wrote:

Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.

 

It seems like we have a program like that - Medicaid.

 

The problem with a "poor people's program" is some people in the middle class (or think they're in the middle class) believe that it's not fair that their taxes pay for poor people's healthcare.

Most people don't mind paying taxes as long as they're getting something out of it.

 

In my town we used to have free internet Wi-Fi. I used it. Some of my friends used it. But, most people in town didn't. Many weren't even aware that the town provided free Wi-Fi.

Most had internet as part of their cable bill. I wasn't paying for cable TV (I use the free air waves - like the old days) and I used the public Wi-Fi.

Although the cost to provide public Wi-Fi was very small (per taxpayer), some people complained, so the town put it on the ballot.

The vote on election day was very close - almost 50-50, but the majority voted against it. The town shut down the public Wi-Fi.

The point I'm making is most people don't mind paying taxes if they feel they'll get some use from it. Do you notice how people complain about property taxes until the town puts in new sidewalks in front of their house, or paves their street?

 

Everybody in. Nobody out. Everybody contributes in some form.

Perhaps this could be done with a sales tax, or, as in some countries, have a weekly lottery with the money going towards healthcare. We're Americans. We should be able to figure out something. We have many examples to get ideas from since every major industrialized nation already has it.

I think a healthcare sales tax is not a bad idea, even though poor people will probably be paying a larger percent of their income than wealthy people. But on the flip side, the wealthy will actually be paying more in dollars.

 

Whatever we choose, it's about time we join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee healthcare for all its people. 

 

Sticking with health care - "poor people" would be (as always) some sliding scale of benefits determined by the government. As you said, the basis is there in Medicaid. Why not just adjust it to fulfill the perceived requirements rather than inventing an enormous program involving all people and all healthcare.

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 6 of 299

@rk9152 wrote:


Medicare is a program people pay into and are served by in retirement. That is not "single payer" which covers everyone at all times.

 

The VA is a specific program designed to serve a specific set of clients. Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.


Really  and have posters then  insult those people and denigrate those people and called them TAKERS  because  taxes may go to serve those individuals.?    Besides, we already have Medicaid and we have all seen the badmouthing that has accompany those programs.

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 7 of 299

Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.

 

It seems like we have a program like that - Medicaid.

 

The problem with a "poor people's program" is some people in the middle class (or think they're in the middle class) believe that it's not fair that their taxes pay for poor people's healthcare.

Most people don't mind paying taxes as long as they're getting something out of it.

 

In my town we used to have free internet Wi-Fi. I used it. Some of my friends used it. But, most people in town didn't. Many weren't even aware that the town provided free Wi-Fi.

Most had internet as part of their cable bill. I wasn't paying for cable TV (I use the free air waves - like the old days) and I used the public Wi-Fi.

Although the cost to provide public Wi-Fi was very small (per taxpayer), some people complained, so the town put it on the ballot.

The vote on election day was very close - almost 50-50, but the majority voted against it. The town shut down the public Wi-Fi.

The point I'm making is most people don't mind paying taxes if they feel they'll get some use from it. Do you notice how people complain about property taxes until the town puts in new sidewalks in front of their house, or paves their street?

 

Everybody in. Nobody out. Everybody contributes in some form.

Perhaps this could be done with a sales tax, or, as in some countries, have a weekly lottery with the money going towards healthcare. We're Americans. We should be able to figure out something. We have many examples to get ideas from since every major industrialized nation already has it.

I think a healthcare sales tax is not a bad idea, even though poor people will probably be paying a larger percent of their income than wealthy people. But on the flip side, the wealthy will actually be paying more in dollars.

 

Whatever we choose, it's about time we join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee healthcare for all its people. 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 8 of 299

@JudithS827275 wrote:

It's a mystery to me why so few people understand what a single payer plan is.  We already have "socialized medicine" or "single payer plans" in the USA.  They're called Medicare and VA Medical, and both programs are paid for by the government, work extremely well and efficiently, at a far lower cost than insurance provided by private insurance companies.  Why wouldn't we all want to save money and get better health care?


Medicare is a program people pay into and are served by in retirement. That is not "single payer" which covers everyone at all times.

 

The VA is a specific program designed to serve a specific set of clients. Maybe we need a "poor people's" program along the same line.

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 9 of 299

It's a mystery to me why so few people understand what a single payer plan is.  We already have "socialized medicine" or "single payer plans" in the USA.  They're called Medicare and VA Medical, and both programs are paid for by the government, work extremely well and efficiently, at a far lower cost than insurance provided by private insurance companies.  Why wouldn't we all want to save money and get better health care?

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Re: Socialized medicine and single payer plans

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Message 10 of 299

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wr

Remember the $48 DOD hammer and then tell me about how efficiently government bureaucrats function.

 

Plus, I am very uncomfortable turning over my healthcare to such bureaucrats just so others can get their wealth redistribution using 1/6th of the US economy


Now why is it that every other country in the world can run their health care system in such a way that they have better outcomes and lower costs but America can't seem to do that?  Oh right. We have the Republican party. Asked and answered. 


I don't know, do they also have those $48 hammers?


I don't know but all their legal residents have health coverage at less than what we pay as a nation for partial coverage. HEY,  how long ago was that hammer story? You REALLY had to go back in time to find an example you could, kind of, use. 


The point being that OUR bureaucracy is not necessarily as efficient and cost-saving as the cost claims being made require.


The REAL point being a single incident caused by Republican legislation designed to maximize contractor profits says NOTHING about the efficiency of a single organizational element, let alone the entire Government.

 

Overhead for Social Security and Medicare runs 2%. Lowest overhead for health care is in the health insurance providers which was slashed to 20% only because of Obamacare - the overhead for the care providers is considerably higher than 20%.


The cause is debatable - it's existence is the point. And, as always, your numbers are off.


The cause (of the $480 allen wrench called a hammer by those who know nothing of the incident) is irrefutable - STUPID LAWS TO MAXIMIZE CONTRACTOR PROFITS. Hop right in if you have an alternative, but please don't bother with bumper stickers - just YOUR version of how it happened and why it was the Government workers fault for following the laws written by GOPers.

 

But you're right - I grossly overstated the overhead for Social Secutiry, which has been running at LESS THAN 1% SINCE 2006, hasn't been over 2% for decades and according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue AFTER Obamacare fined them for anything above 20%.

 

As for the hospitals:

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/.../comparison-hospital-administrative-costs-eigh...

 
 

Sep 8, 2014 - Administrative costs accounted for 25 percent—or more than $200 billion—of total hospital spending in the United States. In the other nations included in this study, these costs accounted for between 12 percent of spending (Canada and Scotland) and 20 percent of spending (the Netherlands).

 

...and more recently:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/.../us-healthcare-prices-reflect-huge-administr...

 
 

Jul 16, 2018 - It found that 25.3 percent of total U.S. hospital costs went toward administrative expenses. The U.S. had the highest hospital administrative .

 

Whereas Dr's offices and clinics have to deal with the same mountain of paper required by the Insurance companies, their overhead will be at least that high, probably significantly more because they lack the volume (total cost of operations) to spread their overhead against.

 

...and you pulled your numbers from ... where exactly?


There is no question that our health care costs need careful analysis. But, turning the whole thing over to government bureaucrats is not the answer.

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