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Honored Social Butterfly

So, why is auto insurance mandatory?

I am reading about the Republican attempt to remove health insurance from as many poor people as possible.  Even I believe I would take the chance and pay the 30% surcharge if I had to get insurance. Assuming I was young and healthy, of course. 

 

Still, the big argument against Obamacare was the requirement to have health insurance. So, would conservatives suggest we make auto insurance optional?

Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:
Health insurance is as much linked to being an American as life insurance.  As anyone can see, there is no linkage at all.  Liberals love mandating everything and love totalitarian governments.

I suppose it depends on your definition of linked.  

 

We are the only country in the world who used employer sponsored healthcare. We are the only major power not to guarantee its citizens access to healthcare. 

 

However, if you mean this as something every American will one day use, then we are intimately linked to it. If people do not pay for their own healthcare through insurance, are you proposing universal government paid healthcare?  I can back that. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:


I think you are catching on.  Auto insurance is linked to driving - no driving means you don't NEED to buy insurance.  Health insurance is linked to being an American - move out of the country means you don't NEED to buy insurance or pay the fee.


Health insurance is as much linked to being an American as life insurance.  As anyone can see, there is no linkage at all.  Liberals love mandating everything and love totalitarian governments.  So that's why Reagan mandated wearing seat belts. That explains everything.  Thanks, NOT!


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

I think you are catching on.  Auto insurance is linked to driving - no driving means you don't NEED to buy insurance.  Obamacare is REQUIRED by all.  There is no link and punitive measures get tougher each year you fail to purchase insurance.  It was a plan that was doomed from the getgo.


Hmm perhaps taxes would be a better parallel.  You must pay your taxes for the common good. You must prove you can pay for your own healthcare for the common good.  I like that too. 

 

The ACA was only doomed because Republicans fought so hard to keep healthcare out of the hands of the middle class. 

Honored Social Butterfly

Richva,

Personally, I do not like most of what is in this legislation - I would have opted for something a lot more severe - like changing our whole health insurance system, i.e. putting most everybody into the individual marketplace and getting rid of employer based coverage, including government employees and active military .

 

However, to comment on your subject -

The individual mandate was not working for a lot of reasons

1.  The tax penalty was not enough to be punitive compared to the cost of health insurance.

2.  Lots of people got out of paying the tax penalty (individual responsibility payment) because there were lots of exceptions and even then, there were ways to get around it.  The IRS was always playing catch up.

3.  A lot of people got around  the insurance penalty by keeping it for a few months, then dropping it.  (9) months on and (3) months off - That was the reason for the last CMS rule requiring people to catch up on their premiums before they re-upped for the next period.  The insurers were losing these premiums, if they got care during this 2nd 30-days, the providers were also losing money.

4.  The ACA was negligent in making people prove their reasoning when buying health insurance outside of open enrollment - so in essense, many were only buying it when they needed it.

 

By going to a period-specific punitive penalty, like establishing a premium surcharge for not staying constantly enrolled, within a certain time limit, the legislation is trying to encourange people to get enrolled and stay enrolled - which is and has been the goal.

 

As to your linkage to auto insurance - they are both insurance, just like home insurance or even workmans comp., but the (use) risk management has been thrown out the window with health insurance. 

 

However, a question -

Don't you think we should do everything possible to get those "young and healthy" to enroll in health care coverage and stay enroll in order to bring a much better rate for everybody ? 

 

If we work down the premiums by having a good mix of healthy/unhealthy then we can start to work down the actual cost of medical care. 

 

Those rules which CMS recently established regarding the marketplace and this current legislation are both an attempt at stabilizing this marketplace - actually to preserve it.  If it gets much worse, there might not be an insurer available in many areas to provide the coverage regardless of the plan or how premiums are paid.

 

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

I think you are catching on.  Auto insurance is linked to driving - no driving means you don't NEED to buy insurance.  Obamacare is REQUIRED by all.  There is no link and punitive measures get tougher each year you fail to purchase insurance.  It was a plan that was doomed from the getgo.


Hmm perhaps taxes would be a better parallel.  You must pay your taxes for the common good. You must prove you can pay for your own healthcare for the common good.  I like that too. 

 

The ACA was only doomed because Republicans fought so hard to keep healthcare out of the hands of the middle class. 


I see you still don't get it.  Those with no income don't (have to) pay taxes.  Those that don't buy anything, don't pay sales taxes.  No one is FORCED with penalties to pay taxes except those tied to income or sales.

 

You have NO CHOICE with healthcare.  The strong arm of the liberal government sweeps you up if you don't buy Obamacare.  There IS NO ESACPE!

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Trusted Social Butterfly

NOTHAPPPENING has a valid point and it isn't about the topic.  Health Insurance and auto insurance are not the same things although each, in the end, has a great deal to do with accepting personal responsibility....not just for what you do or don't do personally, but for the actions or inactions of he society in which you live...... and without which you simply would not. 

 

 To be specific, for those with that kind of hang-up, auto insurance is a condition attached to being 'allowed' to drive.  You may do 'harm' to others as a consequence.  That 'harm' is not of their making. 

 

People are irresponsible when it comes to such things. So... the government you elected mandates you be 'insured' before being legally allowed to drive on public roads.  In some states, proof of financial responsibility is accepted as an alternative.

 

Mandatory Health Care Insurance and Mandatory Auto Insurance are similar, but different.  This discussion indicates we really do need to get down to the basic concept[s] and agree....before descending into the deep, dark, detail dungeon

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

I am reading about the Republican attempt to remove health insurance from as many poor people as possible.  Even I believe I would take the chance and pay the 30% surcharge if I had to get insurance. Assuming I was young and healthy, of course. 

 

Still, the big argument against Obamacare was the requirement to have health insurance. So, would conservatives suggest we make auto insurance optional?


It's NOT mandatory!  If you want to drive legally in your state, you must have insurance.  The healthcare law had no such provision yet the left tries unsuccessfully to compare apples and oranges.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:



It's NOT mandatory!  If you want to drive legally in your state, you must have insurance.  The healthcare law had no such provision yet the left tries unsuccessfully to compare apples and oranges.


  • If you want to drive in your state, you must have auto insurance.
  • The ACA requires that you must have health insurance.

1. You refer to "It is NOT mandatory" but I am not sure if you are referring to auto or health insurance.

2. How are they apples and oranges?

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:



It's NOT mandatory!  If you want to drive legally in your state, you must have insurance.  The healthcare law had no such provision yet the left tries unsuccessfully to compare apples and oranges.


  • If you want to drive in your state, you must have auto insurance.
  • The ACA requires that you must have health insurance.

1. You refer to "It is NOT mandatory" but I am not sure if you are referring to auto or health insurance.

2. How are they apples and oranges?


Healthcare insurance (Obamacare) is mandatory, no ifs ands, or buts!  You can opt out of mandatory car insurance by NOT DRIVING.  You just don't have that option with the left's version of healthcare!  You CAN'T opt out.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:



It's NOT mandatory!  If you want to drive legally in your state, you must have insurance.  The healthcare law had no such provision yet the left tries unsuccessfully to compare apples and oranges.


  • If you want to drive in your state, you must have auto insurance.
  • The ACA requires that you must have health insurance.

1. You refer to "It is NOT mandatory" but I am not sure if you are referring to auto or health insurance.

2. How are they apples and oranges?


Healthcare insurance (Obamacare) is mandatory, no ifs ands, or buts!  You can opt out of mandatory car insurance by NOT DRIVING.  You just don't have that option with the left's version of healthcare!  You CAN'T opt out.


Yes you can, you just pay a small fee.  And you can opt out be moving out of the country.  Right up there with the logic that suggests NOT driving.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
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Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

I am reading about the Republican attempt to remove health insurance from as many poor people as possible.  

If you truly are "reading that" then you are not reading factual material - you are reading leftwing propaganda.

 

Even I believe I would take the chance and pay the 30% surcharge if I had to get insurance. Assuming I was young and healthy, of course. 

 

Still, the big argument against Obamacare was the requirement to have health insurance. So, would conservatives suggest we make auto insurance optional?

This Conservative would not. People have a choice as to whether to drive on the public roads or not. They do not have a choice as to whether or not get sick, fall down, get shot, whatever.

 

However, the individual mandate was probably the only major part of Obamacare that I agreed with. If we are going to illegalize denial based on previous condition, we have to deal with the "I'll get insurance when I get sick or have the accident" concept.


 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

I am reading about the Republican attempt to remove health insurance from as many poor people as possible.  

If you truly are "reading that" then you are not reading factual material - you are reading leftwing propaganda.

 

Even I believe I would take the chance and pay the 30% surcharge if I had to get insurance. Assuming I was young and healthy, of course. 

 

Still, the big argument against Obamacare was the requirement to have health insurance. So, would conservatives suggest we make auto insurance optional?

This Conservative would not. People have a choice as to whether to drive on the public roads or not. They do not have a choice as to whether or not get sick, fall down, get shot, whatever.

 

However, the individual mandate was probably the only major part of Obamacare that I agreed with. If we are going to illegalize denial based on previous condition, we have to deal with the "I'll get insurance when I get sick or have the accident" concept.


 


Wrong - New Hampshire Drivers are not required to have any kind of Vehicle Insurance to register their vehicle and drive on any roads anywhere in the State

 

New Hampshire Drivers are also the only Drivers in the Country where wearing a seat belt is not mandatory

 

However, unless a person pays cash for a vehicle Even the Person who purchases a brand new car - never registers it with any state - puts it in a garage and throws the keys away - has to have Comprehensive Fire & Theft Insurance and that mandate is from the Lender

 

Not To Worry Though

 

As soon as Trumpcare gets passed - all the working poor and most elderly on a fixed income will be required by their Lenders to have some kind of Health Insurance becuase anyone with any serious illness will require a financial loan to pay for their treatment

 

This Conservative would not. People have a choice as to whether to drive on the public roads or not. They do not have a choice as to whether or not get sick, fall down, get shot, whatever.

 

Interesting to note that - getting shot - getting sick and even falling down are three things where Conservatives support eliminating laws that will dramatically increase the chances a US Citizen will fall victim too at least one or more over their lifetime

 

1. Trumps Plan to Make sure their are no minimum requirements to purchase and own guns and by all means as demostratred by Trump Executive Order last week - allow another 75,000  Mentally ill to now obtain Assault Weapons

 

2.  Trumps Plan to Get rid of Obamacare and it's mandate that insurers cover preventative health - so everyone can increase their chance of getting everything from the Flu to Serious Life Threatening Illnesses

 

3. Trumps Plan to dismantle OSHA and lift all those other Punitive Laws that will  “save small businesses from the crushing burdens of unnecessary regulations that are stunting job growth and suppressing wages.”

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Honored Social Butterfly


@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

I am reading about the Republican attempt to remove health insurance from as many poor people as possible.  

If you truly are "reading that" then you are not reading factual material - you are reading leftwing propaganda.

 

Even I believe I would take the chance and pay the 30% surcharge if I had to get insurance. Assuming I was young and healthy, of course. 

 

Still, the big argument against Obamacare was the requirement to have health insurance. So, would conservatives suggest we make auto insurance optional?

This Conservative would not. People have a choice as to whether to drive on the public roads or not. They do not have a choice as to whether or not get sick, fall down, get shot, whatever.

 

However, the individual mandate was probably the only major part of Obamacare that I agreed with. If we are going to illegalize denial based on previous condition, we have to deal with the "I'll get insurance when I get sick or have the accident" concept.


 


Wrong - New Hampshire Drivers are not required to have any kind of Vehicle Insurance to register their vehicle and drive on any roads anywhere in the State

 

New Hampshire Drivers are also the only Drivers in the Country where wearing a seat belt is not mandatory

 

However, unless a person pays cash for a vehicle Even the Person who purchases a brand new car - never registers it with any state - puts it in a garage and throws the keys away - has to have Comprehensive Fire & Theft Insurance and that mandate is from the Lender

 

Not To Worry Though

 

As soon as Trumpcare gets passed - all the working poor and most elderly on a fixed income will be required by their Lenders to have some kind of Health Insurance becuase anyone with any serious illness will require a financial loan to pay for their treatment

 

This Conservative would not. People have a choice as to whether to drive on the public roads or not. They do not have a choice as to whether or not get sick, fall down, get shot, whatever.

 

Interesting to note that - getting shot - getting sick and even falling down are three things where Conservatives support eliminating laws that will dramatically increase the chances a US Citizen will fall victim too at least one or more over their lifetime

 

1. Trumps Plan to Make sure their are no minimum requirements to purchase and own guns and by all means as demostratred by Trump Executive Order last week - allow another 75,000  Mentally ill to now obtain Assault Weapons

 

2.  Trumps Plan to Get rid of Obamacare and it's mandate that insurers cover preventative health - so everyone can increase their chance of getting everything from the Flu to Serious Life Threatening Illnesses

 

3. Trumps Plan to dismantle OSHA and lift all those other Punitive Laws that will  “save small businesses from the crushing burdens of unnecessary regulations that are stunting job growth and suppressing wages.”

 

 

 

 


O.K. - NH is oddball. But surely you are not saying that the principles stated are not appropriate.

 

No, Conservatives (at least this Conservative) does not support getting shot, getting sick, or falling down.

Your Trump assumptions do not connect. a) Guns - restricting the rights of Americans is not the answer. Dealing with the criminals is. b) Dumping socialized medicine is not going to make anyone sick. And since we don't have a replacement in place yet, that is a presumptive statement for you to make. c) OSHA prevents people from falling down??? You may be pushing some strange theories there. BTW are you in favor of "....crushing burdens of unnecessary regulations that are stunting job growth and suppressing wages"?

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

I am reading about the Republican attempt to remove health insurance from as many poor people as possible.  Even I believe I would take the chance and pay the 30% surcharge if I had to get insurance. Assuming I was young and healthy, of course. 

 

Still, the big argument against Obamacare was the requirement to have health insurance. So, would conservatives suggest we make auto insurance optional?


Along the same lines shouldn't conservatives be allowed to decline police services, fire dept services, and educational services - homeschool their spawn, and have the cost for those services removed from their taxes?  

Just think of the additional disposable income they would have available to improve the economy...

 

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly

The Germans had an excellent solution to the kind of infantile me-ism practiced by most Republicans - if a driver chose to ignore their seat belt law, the driver would receive a 20DM fine if the police stopped them, but if they were in an accident, their insurance company (and everyone had to have insurance) did not have to pay for their injuries. I'd say we allow Republicans to cancel all their insurance and permit hospitals to only treat those who can pay. Then the GOPerLords will still be treated for illness and injury, and in a very few years, they'll have no base to elect their drones and we can haave a Government that will actually Govern For and By the 99%..

 

Seriously tho, we all have car insurance because those laws were passed before the teabaggers took over the GOP and Republicans still behaved logically and responsibly.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

The Germans had an excellent solution to the kind of infantile me-ism practiced by most Republicans - if a driver chose to ignore their seat belt law, the driver would receive a 20DM fine if the police stopped them, but if they were in an accident, their insurance company (and everyone had to have insurance) did not have to pay for their injuries. I'd say we allow Republicans to cancel all their insurance and permit hospitals to only treat those who can pay. Then the GOPerLords will still be treated for illness and injury, and in a very few years, they'll have no base to elect their drones and we can haave a Government that will actually Govern For and By the 99%..

 

Seriously tho, we all have car insurance because those laws were passed before the teabaggers took over the GOP and Republicans still behaved logically and responsibly.


I have not heard of any Tea Party objection to mandatory auto insurance. Possibly you can be a bit more specific.

 

BTW - I have and have always had throughout my adult life insurance. I have always considered that to be the responsible thing to do. Does that make me one of those hater 1%ers or GOPerLords  referred to above??

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