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Periodic Contributor

Senate Bill 2733

Has anyone seen this one yet.  Apparently there's an attempt to alter Social Security but very very quietly and leave no fingerprints behind. 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2733/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expand...

 

Honored Social Butterfly

Senate Bill 2733

 

Well one thing for sure,  Republicans don't intend to and won't raise the payroll tax.  If they won't increase funding that means they propose to reduce the benefit.

 

Payroll tax cut?   Just another attack on Social Security and Medicare.

 

I suspect they propose to raise the full benefit retirement age to 72,  and cut benefits to higher income recipients. 

 

This stuff makes me sick,  if we had raised the payroll tax a tenth of one percent a year for the last forty years and indexed minimum wage to inflation we wouldn't have this problem now.

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Super Contributor

It is disheartening to see the lack of understanding of Trump supporters on payroll tax cut which Trump is demanding. They consider it only as a tax cut that will increase their paychecks. They have no ideas of retirement consequences they may face later in life. I see no remedy for ignorance.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Smartmouth wrote:

It is disheartening to see the lack of understanding of Trump supporters on payroll tax cut which Trump is demanding. They consider it only as a tax cut that will increase their paychecks. They have no ideas of retirement consequences they may face later in life. I see no remedy for ignorance.


What does that have to do with the subject of this thread - Senate Bill # 2733?

It didn't get done regardless of the "demand" - just not something that would help in this pandemic economy.  Nobody put it into the HEALS Act cause it was not a good idea.

 

It didn't help that much when Obama did it during his Administration's Recession stimulus but the Trust Funds did not suffer because the amount that was not paid in as a result of the (employee) payroll tax reprieve was made up out of the General Fund.

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Yes, it has nothing to do with senate Bill 2733 now that the payroll tax cut was not included.

You say "just not something that would help in this pandemic economy" that is yours and my belief but most republicans were of the opposite based on trying to gradually get rid of it. Do you really think that Trump will do what Obama did with the general fund?

If you think that its the end of Trump and Republican's attempts to get rid of payroll tax/social security/medicare, you are kidding your self. What do you think will happen if Trump comes back in November and by any chance the house goes back to Republicans?

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Honored Social Butterfly

welcome. Ignorance and denial of truth and the facts are the telltale signs of the dreaded Trump Cult I am afraid.
Honored Social Butterfly

Why not read the bill and see the Senators that support it and why.

For that matter, read the corresponding House Bill and see the Representatives that support it. HR4907

Then you can read the letter that some House members sent to Speaker Nancy Pelosi.  Is your Congressman listed?  There is a mixture of party support - not just GOP.

 

The TRUST ACT  - Time to Rescue United States Trusts (TRUST) Act - also covers the Highway Trust Fund in addition to the ones for Social Security and Medicare (Part A - HI Fund)

 

Now for the reason for this push:

CNBC 07/07/2020 - Social Security’s trust funds at a greater risk for running dry amid pandemic. 

 

Social Security relies on the money in its trust funds, from which it pays a portion of its benefits.

 

How long Social Security’s funds will last had been a nagging question even before the coronavirus pandemic.

 

But now researchers are saying that the virus and its economic after effects could reduce the pot of money more quickly.

 

In April, the SSA said the trust funds could be depleted in 2035. At that point, the system will be able to pay 79% of promised benefits.

 

However, as the pandemic has worn on, other research has been more pessimistic.

A May report from The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania found that the trust funds could run dry as early as 2032.

 

Then, in June, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a non-partisan organization, pinned its projections on as soon as 2031.

 

Lawmakers could make changes before Social Security reaches that point. That could include raising taxes, benefit cuts or a combination of both.

 

The proposed TRUST ACT 2019-2020 is only a way to establish a committee to hash out the many proposals that have been made to fix the problem and then fast track it to legislation that can be passed ASAP - we have been going thru this for at least the last 15 years -

Here they ALL are: 

SSA.gov - Office of the Chief Actuary's Estimates of Proposals to Change Social Security  

 

The sooner something is passed, the easier it will be on ALL people to adjust to the changes.

Read the annual Trustee Reports - pick a year from under whatever Administration because the conclusive verbiage is and has been the same for years.

Social Security Trustee Report Summary - 2020 

Conclusion

Lawmakers have many policy options that would reduce or eliminate the long-term financing shortfalls in Social Security and Medicare. Lawmakers should address these financial challenges as soon as possible. Taking action sooner rather than later will permit consideration of a broader range of solutions and provide more time to phase in changes so that the public has adequate time to prepare.

 

Now before you jump down my throat -

I have been a supporter of the "Social Security 2100 Act," (HR 860) introduced September 18, 2019 by Rep. John Larson and he introduced it on the House floor in January 2019. 

I also like some aspects of others of both Democrat and Republican origins.

In this age where there is such partisan divide, we have got to do something - it is their job to hash it out, no matter what the political ramifications might be to them individually.  We are getting to crunch time. 

 

I am pretty sure that there will be NO COLA for 2021 and that means that they cannot go up on the (regular) Medicare Part B premiums for those of us who are already receiving benefits - and I am pretty sure that Part B is being spent hardily - it will catch up to us eventually.

So a few years down the road whether it is 2031 or 2034,( or earlier) and things have not been fixed - there is an automatic cut that will happen to our benefits - last year it was estimated that this would be about 25% - So how would you like a reduction in SS benefits and escalating Part B premiums and a reduction in Medicare Part A coverage?????

 

ROME BURNED WHILE NERO FIDDLED - you can take that in whatever manner ya want.

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

@GailL1   This is an old discussion. We all know and have discussed the issue too many times.SS needs to be revised in order to save SS. As you have well posted that has been many ways  in which we have all discusses how that should happen.
I feel that eventually it will. but, unfortunately now, is not the time. because of the lack of trust that exists in this country regarding this Administration.
When this Administration ends, and we have a Senate and a Congress that can be trusted. that will be the time to deal with SS

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

@GailL1   This is an old discussion.


I feel that eventually it will. but, unfortunately now, is not the time. because of the lack of trust that exists in this country regarding this Administration.
When this Administration ends, and we have a Senate and a Congress that can be trusted. that will be the time to deal with SS


Guess we haven't "TRUSTED" Administrations for one reason or another for a very long time - since this has been coming on for a very long time and WE HAVE KNOWN IT.

 

Why do you think that a change in Administrations is gonna produce any action?  They are still all politicians and this is gonna involve some very hard choices, if they are honest about it.  It may cost some people MORE, it may give some people LESS - what politician wants to be the bearer of bad tidings? 

 

Seems they are real good at "giving" but when the stuff hits the fan, i.e. running out of money, and they have to disappoint some people, it will go down in history.  I.E.  Reagan/ Dem. Congress changes saved the program back in 1982 - don't believe me look at the numbers - but people are still gripping about what they lost or how much more they have to pay. *

 

This time the money shortfall is a whole lot more and we have millions of baby boomers on or going on the system.  We are already taxing SS benefits on a relatively modest income - can't change that much.  IOW, the easy fixes have already been done !  Now comes the hard part.

 

As each "CONCLUSION" points out in the Trustees Annual Report for years, under several different Administrations:

Conclusion

Lawmakers have many policy options that would reduce or eliminate the long-term financing shortfalls in Social Security and Medicare. Lawmakers should address these financial challenges as soon as possible. Taking action sooner rather than later will permit consideration of a broader range of solutions and provide more time to phase in changes so that the public has adequate time to prepare.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a3.html 

Screenshot_2020-07-29 Trust Fund Data.png

 Screenshot_2020-07-29 Trust Fund Data(1).png

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

@GailL1  

Guess we haven't "TRUSTED" Administrations for one reason or another for a very long time - since this has been coming on for a very long time and WE HAVE KNOWN IT.  Yes  we all do.

 

Why do you think that a change in Administrations is gonna produce any action?  They are still all politicians and this is gonna involve some very hard choices, if they are honest about it.  It may cost some people MORE, it may give some people LESS - what politician wants to be the bearer of bad tidings? That is correct. bu now you cannot deny that the division that exists would complicate on how anything can be done we know that there will be compromises ,and at this time is not possible.

 

Seems they are real good at "giving" but when the stuff hits the fan, i.e. running out of money, and they have to disappoint some people, it will go down in history.  I.E.  Reagan/ Dem. Congress changes saved the program back in 1982 - don't believe me look at the numbers - but people are still gripping about what they lost or how much more they have to pay. *   Again timing is everything and this is not the time

 

This time the money shortfall is a whole lot more and we have millions of baby boomers on or going on the system.  We are already taxing SS benefits on a relatively modest income - can't change that much.  IOW, the easy fixes have already been done !  Now comes the hard part. Gai I am not arguing your posts, what I am saying that the times that this country is living in the present will not allow to have anything positive at this time. The stress levels are too high the discontent is too high. and on top is this virus. This is the time to unite and I don't see that happening now.

 

As each "CONCLUSION" points out in the Trustees Annual Report for years, under several different Administrations:

Conclusion

Lawmakers have many policy options that would reduce or eliminate the long-term financing shortfalls in Social Security and Medicare. Lawmakers should address these financial challenges as soon as possible. Taking action sooner rather than later will permit consideration of a broader range of solutions and provide more time to phase in changes so that the public has adequate time to prepare.

 

We are not stupid we know that somebody should have don something but as we all know, nobody ever does. The politicians are always too busy  trying to save their behinds and not their country.

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@Roxanna35 

 

Then we are doomed - We will all get that benefits check down the road that is shorted about 25% or MORE with a note from the Government - "Sorry, We Just Couldn't Work This Out"

 

You let me know WHEN exactly you think is the "right" time - any changes still have to go through the same route.  This Senate Bill # 2733 only fast tracks the actual process - the whatever legislative remedy has to be developed..

 

All you people need to separate "POLITICS" from "GOVERNING" - we have too much of the former and not enough of the ladder.   ROME BURNED WHILE NERO FIDDLED !!!

Honored Social Butterfly

Will It Ever Work Again ???

USNEWS 04/02/2009 - Bipartisan Reagan-O'Neill Social Security Deal in 1983 Showed It Can Be Done 

 

1983 Social Security deal showed that good politics can happen in the most unforgiving environments.

 

 

 

Screenshot_2020-07-30 Bipartisan Reagan-O'Neill Social Security Deal in 1983 Showed It Can Be Done.png

 

 

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@GailL1 wrote:

@Roxanna35 

 

Then we are doomed - We will all get that benefits check down the road that is shorted about 25% or MORE with a note from the Government - "Sorry, We Just Couldn't Work This Out"

 

You let me know WHEN exactly you think is the "right" time - any changes still have to go through the same route.  This Senate Bill # 2733 only fast tracks the actual process - the whatever legislative remedy has to be developed..

 

All you people need to separate "POLITICS" from "GOVERNING" - we have too much of the former and not enough of the ladder.   ROME BURNED WHILE NERO FIDDLED !!!


You are correct we need to separate Politics from governing and to much in politics and not enough of governing. That started when the Tea Party was founded and allowed Trump to take over the Rep party. Trump is a mob boss so the American form of Governing he will never do.

If you want to look at what happens when politics becomes first, and governing second go to GA. Staying in power is number one for the far right rep. in power.

When need to expand health care former Gov. says Let them die in the Streets. To control who votes they lead the way in stopping people from vetoing. They had mail in votes in the primary and it worked so now they are ending the approach they used. Have a program to control the virus. No they have none, well they do. Stop anything that will control the virus as business comes before peoples lives.

They make Trump look good.

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Honored Social Butterfly

The once and done FOREVER fix to SS is to raise the "cap" on income subject to the FICA CONTRIBUTION to cover 90% of total income, just like it was when Reagan was President, AND continue to tax retirement income above  (some amount considerably more than the average working wage $85,000 last I recall) and transfering those tax collections to the SSTF.

 

Only reason Republicans will never support this is it is totally contrary to Republican policy and dogma. It works, and it does not transfer money from the middle to the top. Everything Republicans support will NEVER do what they say it will and must transfer money from the middle to the top.  Their bogus "stimulus plans" are excellent examples of this golden rule for GOPer support.

Honored Social Butterfly

@Olderscout66 

Raising the cap is fine but remember the purpose of the cap to to also moderate (cap)  the TOP BENEFIT - no cap - a higher benefit - even if an additional bend point is added. (See John Larson's Social Security 2100 Act" .

 

We already tax benefits and that money does goes to the SS Trust Fund and the income limit  is much lower than $ 85,000 - guess we could make everybody pay taxes on at least 50% of their benefit seeing that 50% of the contributions came from their employers - who did not pay taxes on it - so it is actually income that has never been taxed AT ALL !!

SSA: Income Taxes on Benefits 

 

NEXT ??!!??   

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Honored Social Butterfly

The reason the SSTF grew for a decade or so after Reagan raised the cap was the revenue from the higher cap begins IMMEDIATELY while the pay-out in higher benefits is delayed for up to 45 years. You're right, the taxation of SS benefits now begins when "retirement income" hits $25K when 50% of SS payments are added to your AGI UP TO $34K when the percent subject to taxation jumps to 85% (knew there was an "85" somewhere in that pile). Perhaps the 50% is in recognition of the employer share never having been taxed? Would be reasonable, as is 85% since this was NEVER intended to be a RETIREMENT SAVINGS ACCOUNT, but rather an insurance policy protecting you against having to spend your golden years in abject poverty as was the case for many before SS. If you have car insurance and never have a wreck, you can't collect, and earning over $34K in retirement seems a fair indication you're not going to meet the conditions that your SS contributions "insured you against" - living in poverty.

 

If raising the cap to around $300K (to cover 90% of income) doesn't work, we can always repeal the tRump giveaway of $1.2 TRILLION and use the revenues to increase the interest paid on the SSTF from 4% to 5%, unless Republicans get reelected, in which case all you folks who depend on SS to maintain your retirement life style are in big trouble because THE GOPers WILL KILL SS - they've been promising to do so since it was created, and having elected a thing like Bonespurs MctRump proves a Republican will have no moral compunctions about ending SS and Medicare FOR ALL,

Honored Social Butterfly

I heard tRump gave up on cutting the SS+Medicare CONTRIBUTION which will bankrupt both systems much sooner, but he's a pathological liar, so he's probably still trying. Perhaps he feels he's doing such a great job KILLING Seniors, neither system will be needed for a generation or so.

 

What IS in the Republican Bill is more redistribution of wealth from the middle to the very top. They want to limit the suppliment to unemployment to $220/week until 1 Oct and then pay enough to give everyone still unemployed (my guess is that will be over 20 Million Americans) 70% of their average pay for the last 4 quarters they were employed.

 

This is a HUGE handout to Red States that pay their citizens virtually nothing for unemployment compensation at the expense of Blue States that makes an effort to keep the temporarily displaced workers fed and sheltered. But it's the "percent of income" that the GOPers really want.

 

The reason is obvious - the laid off financial manager who was making $200K/year or $3846/week would get $2,692/week or 1,097% of the poverty level while the minimum wage worker would get $203/week, or 82% of the poverty income for a single adult . THAT'S Republican Fairness at its finest.

 

The Republican bill also has no provision for stopping evictions for non payment of rent, which will result in a huge spike in evictions and protect the profits of Wall Streeters who invested in RENT Based Securities, the Corporate Oligarchs' replacement for the Mortgage Based Securities that crashed the World Economy in 2007.

Honored Social Butterfly

If Trump wins in 2020 I can virtually guarantee you Trump WILL CUT every Safety Net he can find to pay for his debt incurred in his first 4 years, reason enough to show up at the polls in November or in my case vote, and vote by mail!
Honored Social Butterfly

Romney devised that Bill back in October, 2019. Now he's trying to get it attached to the Coronavirus Bill. I doubt if it's going anywhere - at least not before the election, even though some Democrats have already signed on.

 

Column: GOP slips an attack on Social Security into its coronavirus relief bill

 

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-07-28/gop-social-security-threat-trust-act-coronavirus-r...

Honored Social Butterfly

"alter" Social Security??? Sounds suspicious and ominous!!!! Didn't say anything about exactly what this bill entails did it? Bears watching I think!
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