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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 11 of 36

If we truly stand for diversity, wouldn't that include respectfully allowing divergent thought?

 

I can't speak for other people but my position is I can't make a deal with the devil, I can't go along with killing the planet so we can pretend to bring back coal, I can't go along with pretending to care about family planing , preventing poverty, and preventing abortions in women while closing down family planing offices.

 

I can't pretend to care about the poor and stand up and shout " let them die " when we debate solutions to provide health care for the poor.

 

I can't pretend that Medicare and Medicaid is the only reason we don't have worse sub class of the elderly poor in this country.

 

I won't do that to get along, I won't meet the people who want to take us back to that half way.

 

I won't accept Jim Crow light or the yellow star of David for people who are not white and the right kind of Christian.

 

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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 12 of 36

@gruffstuff wrote:

Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

 

Well I agree with the dehumanization observation, but I don't think that comes from where people receive their news. We had plenty of human behavior that was dehumanizing before social media came along. Just in the US the indigenous people genocide, slavery, oppressive conditions is the work place, child labor, the inferior status of women at the hands of men, Jim Crow and now how skin color and the wrong religion has become the new yellow star of David.

 

Most of the listed above just goes back to the drive to reduce the cost of labor and the blow back from pitting people against each other for profit.

 

As bad as the past was there is more to come, new waves of dislocation, of the masses fighting over scraps, the drive to reduce the cost of labor continues, off shore production,  automation, artificial intelligence, have already taken their toll and there is more, much more to come. Dislocations we haven't seen in this country since the transition from an agrarian  society to an industrial society.

 

Then there is the problem of climate change, and the human conflicts that arise as climate change bottlenecks every living thing on earth.

 

Our response as a nation is denial, we won't even acknowledge these problems much less prepare for them.

 

As the Bob Dylan song goes ............ A hard rain is going to fall.

 

That won't come from social media, though social media will be used to protect the haves from the have nots.

 


@gruffstuff  Thank you for this post. Good stuff.

 

Yes, the money changers and power brokers are in it for themselves, and through social media, more than ever, we are their merchandise. This is true even of the AARP site (clickity click click click, ya'll). Even my bank tracks me now: to use their free bill pay, I must allow it. You think they need to know my online activity in order to distribute funds? No: they collect and sell data.

 

OK, a wee rant. Smiley Happy Sorry. Smiley Wink

 

Yes, I agree: the American people are, by and large, in denial. We see that in the obesity epidemic: we know what causes it, yet we do not take the steps to help ourselves. We see that in the fact that few Americans can pull $400 out of savings for an emergency. (This is, at least for many, due to financial mismanagement.) We see it in the way we batter one another online: so much of what we claim are our opinions have actually been fed to us by our news watching and online habits. We let the system talk at us, but are losing the ability to talk with one another, it seems. 

 

Since online political forums stoke political divisiveness, and divided we fall, who is behind this? Right. It ain't the little guy: he's just the one doing the dance. 

 

People remember not what you say, after all, but how you made them feel. This is why political division is such a powerful weapon against the people.

 

My question, then, is this: are we going to go down without a fight? Can't we decide instead to knit ourselves back together as a people? Understanding and allowing for an opposing view is not the same thing as adopting it. If we truly stand for diversity, wouldn't that include respectfully allowing divergent thought?

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 13 of 36

 

 

@alferdpacker  My asking for clarification of your sloppy language was not a trap.

 

I have long thought that you post here simply to stir things up. Thanks for saying as much.

 

Go in peace.

 

Addendum: Ah, I see you edited your post and changed your meaning regarding the trap. Welp, still  ... go in peace.

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 14 of 36

Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

 

Well I agree with the dehumanization observation, but I don't think that comes from where people receive their news. We had plenty of human behavior that was dehumanizing before social media came along. Just in the US the indigenous people genocide, slavery, oppressive conditions is the work place, child labor, the inferior status of women at the hands of men, Jim Crow and now how skin color and the wrong religion has become the new yellow star of David.

 

Most of the listed above just goes back to the drive to reduce the cost of labor and the blow back from pitting people against each other for profit.

 

As bad as the past was there is more to come, new waves of dislocation, of the masses fighting over scraps, the drive to reduce the cost of labor continues, off shore production,  automation, artificial intelligence, have already taken their toll and there is more, much more to come. Dislocations we haven't seen in this country since the transition from an agrarian  society to an industrial society.

 

Then there is the problem of climate change, and the human conflicts that arise as climate change bottlenecks every living thing on earth.

 

Our response as a nation is denial, we won't even acknowledge these problems much less prepare for them.

 

As the Bob Dylan song goes ............ A hard rain is going to fall.

 

That won't come from social media, though social media will be used to protect the haves from the have nots.

 

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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 15 of 36

Hmm—I see, but I disagreed with Bush, but could stand to listen to him. Ditto Reagan—but, I listen to trump and my concern for my country multiplies with every breath, every word, every lie. My pulse quickens as I hear him lie, twist, and manipulate.

 

I understand the psychology—makes sense—we are who we are from birth,  to an extent.   

 

But trump has made what is a natural difference of opinion into much more than a mere division—he is the grest divider—the difference of opinion is now an abyss.

 

He has done more though—he has threatened the sanctity and security of this nation and her people.

 

That isn’t psychological—that’s fact. 

There comes a time when it isn’t about politics.  This is about our country, morality, real people who are suffering and what our country once—less than one year ago—stood for.

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 16 of 36

I didn't accuse you of being an extremist.  

I made statements that allowed you to perform the conflation in your own mind.

Yes - it was a set up of sorts...

 

Do I think you're an extremist?  No - I don't.  

 

See how a combination of deliberate phrasing on my part and your conflation created something that never existed?

 

I believe "establishing dialogue" will create imaginary solutions to non-existent issues.

 

Nice that you grew up doing much the same sort of things that I did - I was born and raised on a relatively rural and remote sheep and cattle ranch on the Uncompahgre Mesa until I was 12, when I moved to Denver, lived with my aunt, and got to go to what was at the time the public school system with the highest academic achievement levels in the state. 

 

I was fortunate.

 

I'm of the opinion that the deep political polarization is a very good thing that I very sincerely hope will result in trump's removal from office.

I'm of the opinion that trying to reduce the polarization is a disservice to the nation.

 

 

He is useless on top of the ground - he should be under it - inspiring the cabbages... Mark Twain 1894 - APPLIES TO TRUMP TODAY
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 17 of 36

 

@alferdpacker OK, some more active listening: 

 

Are you assuming I'm an extremist? Hm. Would that be because I grew up hunting on an Indian reservation and know how to handle a weapon, how to gut a deer and how to butcher a wild turkey? Or because I voted for Trump? 

 

(Side note: mostly I scare women. Truth.)

 

About the chewing of the fat: my bad language there. I'm with you: I detest small talk. What I really would like to see us do here is drop the constant distrust and fisticuffs and learn to hear one another. Because all my life I've been gifted by the viewpoints, understandings and opinions of persons from another religion, social standing, vocation and political creed, but I find here there is very little of that, and it troubles me. 

 

I won't comment on Roy Moore. He hasn't been charged, tried or convicted. Except in the court of public opinion. Which stinks to high heaven, IMHO. I will say that I would not want to be in the same room, nor would I wish to have an audience with Mr Sandusky. That said, I think we can pull up plenty of names of registered Democrats who have been convicted of misdeeds. Their misdeeds are not the result of their voting habits. So let's drop that BS line of patter, OK? It gets us nowhere.

 

And of course it's fine if all you want to do is post whatever are the talking points du jour, or play Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em Robot with your Republican counterpoints here. Really: go play.

 

It's just that I hope for something better. I hope for real dialogue. Respectful. Earnest discussion, sharing, opining. It is possible to fully disagree and be fully respectful.

 

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 18 of 36

 


@Epster wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@Epster wrote:

 

@alferdpacker  See my previous post. I just aswered your question in a response to @ChasKy53..


Fascinating allegation...

 

I'll wait for links to proved and validated facts to be posted...

 

 


@alferdpacker  Uh ... huh? OK. I'll try a little active listening. Here's what I get out of what you just posted:

 

Egad, woman, you scare me. Nope - not in the least - however, extreme fringe righties that may be armed are an extremely good reason for reasonable concern - and appropriate measures... 

However, there is a distinct probability that you scare and intimidate many republican not-men...

 

I don't want to chew the fat with you. You may be onto something there, considering that social chit-chat, politics, and advertising are society's most popular forms of legalized lying...

There are other sites and topics much better suited to chewing the fat and social chit-chat - things I've never been at all fond of...

 

Plus, you're a Republican, so I can't   Nope - not quite.  Would you deliberately and willingly want to talk to either Roy Moore - a republican - or Jerry Sandusky also a registered republican when he "befriended" young boys, or would something about their personalities cause you to feel distaste and revulsion?  

republicans - well - most of them don't cause me to feel distaste and revulsion - there simply is no logical and rational reason to converse with them -  given that I never enjoyed engaging in social chit-chat...

Post dissent from their statements and opinions here?  

Sure, why not?

 

 

He is useless on top of the ground - he should be under it - inspiring the cabbages... Mark Twain 1894 - APPLIES TO TRUMP TODAY
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 19 of 36

@alferdpacker wrote:

@Epster wrote:

 

@alferdpacker  See my previous post. I just aswered your question in a response to @ChasKy53..


Fascinating allegation...

 

I'll wait for links to proved and validated facts to be posted...

 

 


@alferdpacker  Uh ... huh? OK. I'll try a little active listening. Here's what I get out of what you just posted: "Egad, woman, you scare me. I don't want to chew the fat with you. Plus, you're a Republican, so I can't." 

 

Correct whatever I got wrong, please.

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: Science Explains Deep Political Polarization

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Message 20 of 36

@Epster wrote:

 

@alferdpacker  See my previous post. I just aswered your question in a response to @ChasKy53..


Fascinating allegation...

 

I'll wait for links to proved and validated facts to be posted...

 

 

He is useless on top of the ground - he should be under it - inspiring the cabbages... Mark Twain 1894 - APPLIES TO TRUMP TODAY
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