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Re: SOCIALISM EQUALS COMMUNISM ?

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Message 81 of 95

There are many examples of the success of socialism in multiple countries including the United States. 

 

A couple big examples of socialism working in the US is Social Security and to a certain extent insurance. Farmers for many decades established grain co-ops which is another example of socialism in this country. The power grid was first built out through the Rural Electric Cooperative another socialistic endeavor.

 

Communism as envisioned has never been tried in a modern country, What has been called 'Communism' over the last 75 years is simply another dictatorship. Supposed examples of Communist countries - Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc - were just controlled by a limited ruling faction where the people neither owned nor had any say in anything.

 

There have been ancient examples of Communism (as envisioned) that existed for centuries until defeated by outsiders.

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Re: SOCIALISM EQUALS COMMUNISM ?

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Message 82 of 95

@rk9152 wrote:

 

It is an economic and social system established and controlled by the required, all powerful political system.

 



 No matter how many times one reads your "defomation" containing "aht" "we" had explained - "we" are wrong.

 


You are correct  you have just described Communism

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Message 83 of 95

@alotofgrey wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

Socialism  Definition.
Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production.

 

Communism Definition.

Economic and social system in which all  property and resources are collectively owned by a classless society and not by individual citizens.

 

I edited your definitions of both to make a point.

There is no "private" enterprise in a country with a Socialist government. That government owns and operates all means of production in that country. It distributes what it produces thru its distribution facilities. based on one rule "to each according to need".

Although all means of production are government owned , there is individual ownership. Clothes, shoes, pots, pans....some government issued personal items are individually owned.

With one (1) exception, a country with a Communist government is identical to a country with a Socialist government. That exception is: there is no individual ownership. All things are "communally" owned.

For more than a decade, Venezuela has been experimenting with a Socialist government. As with all countries that have tried that, food from that government's food production has moved that country from  export to import to famine. 

So  according to you socialism and Communism are one and the same?  please explain. Because there are Democracies with Socialist  economies. and they are not government owed  please explain. as to why you make socialism= to communism

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Message 84 of 95

 


@rk9152 wrote:

@KidBoy2 wrote:
rker posted..

Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production. The ownership is acquired through a democratically elected government. It could also be a cooperative or a public corporation where everyone owns shares. The four factors of production are labor, entrepreneurship, capital goods, and natural resources.

========================
Sounds like Utopia.

I do not think even Bernie Sanders would want that Socialism. It does not work the way your definition described it.

Marx did see a form of Utopia but was naive. He recognized that the concept of equality of reward regardless of contribution and a classless society were opposed to human nature. So, his idea was a strong central government with the responsibility to control everything so as to establish the Utopia (known as Communism) and once the people were properly conditioned, the government would magically disappear. Quite unrealistic.


Every bit as unrealistic and maliciously fallacious as the lie that republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are inherently capable of being honest, honorable, truthful, patriotic, and have a greater concern about the long term health and well being of the nation than they are dishonorable, untruthful, selfish, corrupt, and willing to sell the nation for thirty pieces of silver.

 

 

44>dolt45
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Message 85 of 95

@Roxanna35 wrote:


Socialism  Definition.
Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production. The ownership is acquired through a democratically elected government. It could also be a cooperative or a public corporation where everyone owns shares. The four factors of production are labor, entrepreneurship, capital goods, and natural resources

 

Communism Definition.

Economic and social system in which all (or nearly all) property and resources are collectively owned by a classless society and not by individual citizens. Based on the 1848 publication 'Communist Manifesto' by two German political philosophers, Karl Marx (1818-1883) and his close associate Friedrich Engels (1820-1895), it envisaged common ownership of all land and capital and withering away of the coercive power of the state. In such a society, social relations were to be regulated on the fairest of all principles: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Differences between manual and intellectual labor and between rural and urban life were to disappear, opening up the way for unlimited development of human potential.

 

Both sound good. So why have all attempts at either failed? I'll answer that after I said what you said but from a production angle.

There is no "private" enterprise in a country with a Socialist government. That government owns and "operates" all means of production and distributes what it produces thru its distribution facilities. It does distribution based on one rule "to each according to need"

Although all means of production in a country with a Socialist government are government owned , There is individual ownership. Most government items issued to an individual are owned by that individual.

With one (1) exception, a country with a Communist government is identical to a country with a Socialist government. That exception is: there is no individual ownership in a country with a Communist government. All things are "communally" owned.

So why have all attempts at either failed? They fail because.....

Regardless of form, all government attempts to "operate" a production  will fail. That  is not in question. How long that takes is.

That one fact is the single reason all Socialism and Communism attempts have failed and will fail.

Using a government to do some things is  the best way to do them.  Rule of law, military, sewers...are examples of some. "Operating" any production is not one of those.

 

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Message 86 of 95

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@KidBoy2 wrote:
rker posted..

Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production. The ownership is acquired through a democratically elected government. It could also be a cooperative or a public corporation where everyone owns shares. The four factors of production are labor, entrepreneurship, capital goods, and natural resources.

========================
Sounds like Utopia.

I do not think even Bernie Sanders would want that Socialism. It does not work the way your definition described it.

Kidboy, socialism is not a political system. Is not a Democracy or a Dictatorship is an economic system
and I thought aht we had explained the whole thing well. Kidboy, the US has some companies that are in effect Socialists, it only means that it is owned not by  Corporation, or the Goverment it is own by a cooperative
or the employees themselves.. Please read agaom the defomotion.You all see now as to why the word socialism and communism are in the mind of Americans synonims.

 No matter how many times one reads your "defomation" containing "aht" "we" had explained - "we" are wrong.

 

It is an economic and social system established and controlled by the required, all powerful political system.

 


 

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Message 87 of 95

@KidBoy2 wrote:
rker posted..

Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production. The ownership is acquired through a democratically elected government. It could also be a cooperative or a public corporation where everyone owns shares. The four factors of production are labor, entrepreneurship, capital goods, and natural resources.

========================
Sounds like Utopia.

I do not think even Bernie Sanders would want that Socialism. It does not work the way your definition described it.

Marx did see a form of Utopia but was naive. He recognized that the concept of equality of reward regardless of contribution and a classless society were opposed to human nature. So, his idea was a strong central government with the responsibility to control everything so as to establish the Utopia (known as Communism) and once the people were properly conditioned, the government would magically disappear. Quite unrealistic.

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Message 88 of 95

@Richva wrote:

Communism is everything owned by the people (through the state). Socialism is where we work together for better efficiencies when appropriate. Much like shopping at Costco. 

 

Communism is an economic theory where Socialism is a governing philosophy. 



@Richva wrote:

Communism is everything owned by the people (through the state). Socialism is where we work together for better efficiencies when appropriate. Much like shopping at Costco. 

 

Communism is an economic theory where Socialism is a governing philosophy. 


Is the other way arround. socialism is an economic system, Communism is a governemtn philosophy.  Gee!!!!!

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Message 89 of 95

@KidBoy2 wrote:
rker posted..

Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production. The ownership is acquired through a democratically elected government. It could also be a cooperative or a public corporation where everyone owns shares. The four factors of production are labor, entrepreneurship, capital goods, and natural resources.

========================
Sounds like Utopia.

I do not think even Bernie Sanders would want that Socialism. It does not work the way your definition described it.

Kidboy, socialism is not a political system. Is not a Democracy or a Dictatorship is an economic system
and I thought aht we had explained the whole thing well. Kidboy, the US has some companies that are in effect Socialists, it only means that it is owned not by  Corporations, or the Goverment it is own by a cooperative
or the employees themselves.. Please read agaim the defimotion.You all see now as to why the word socialism and communism are in the mind of Americans synonims.

 

 

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Message 90 of 95
rker posted..

Socialism is an economic system where everyone in the society equally owns the factors of production. The ownership is acquired through a democratically elected government. It could also be a cooperative or a public corporation where everyone owns shares. The four factors of production are labor, entrepreneurship, capital goods, and natural resources.

========================
Sounds like Utopia.

I do not think even Bernie Sanders would want that Socialism. It does not work the way your definition described it.
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