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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 1 of 177

@Liltman wrote:

I totally agree that services should be provided to children and mothers.  The idea that a child is viable once it is born is hogwash.  A child must be nurished, fed, kept healthy, educated, etc for many years.  Without a mother's or other human's care, the child would perish.  So there is little difference in the dependency of the child in the womb and after birth.  While the Catholic Church has ruled that abortion is a sin, they have historically provided services for unwed mothers, orphanages, hospitals, food and clothing and schools.  The League of Catholic Bishops sent a letter to Catholic Paul Ryan chastizing him for proposing a budget that is contrary to Catholic beliefs and morals.  He was cutting services to the poor, children, etc. 



@Liltman wrote:

I totally agree that services should be provided to children and mothers.  The idea that a child is viable once it is born is hogwash.  A child must be nurished, fed, kept healthy, educated, etc for many years.  Without a mother's or other human's care, the child would perish.  So there is little difference in the dependency of the child in the womb and after birth.  While the Catholic Church has ruled that abortion is a sin, they have historically provided services for unwed mothers, orphanages, hospitals, food and clothing and schools.  The League of Catholic Bishops sent a letter to Catholic Paul Ryan chastizing him for proposing a budget that is contrary to Catholic beliefs and morals.  He was cutting services to the poor, children, etc. 


I am a Catholic just as you are, perhaps not as pious, but still a Catholic, and I am also pro choice.  so although I welcome your opinion, it doesn't deter me from mine, I still don't find  your reasoning  sufficient to actually change my mind. I sort of differ in your argument that a fetus has the same dependency of a born child and the years or nurturing that that child needs to have. in comparison to what a fetus and the qualities that you seem to provide it with.
So, if you are going to tell me that is a sin, I know that, But, I also know that neither you or I,  knows what God forgives, and what God does not forgive.

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 2 of 177

I totally agree that services should be provided to children and mothers.  The idea that a child is viable once it is born is hogwash.  A child must be nurished, fed, kept healthy, educated, etc for many years.  Without a mother's or other human's care, the child would perish.  So there is little difference in the dependency of the child in the womb and after birth.  While the Catholic Church has ruled that abortion is a sin, they have historically provided services for unwed mothers, orphanages, hospitals, food and clothing and schools.  The League of Catholic Bishops sent a letter to Catholic Paul Ryan chastizing him for proposing a budget that is contrary to Catholic beliefs and morals.  He was cutting services to the poor, children, etc. 

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 3 of 177

Olderscout66

"Just thought this needed to be out there as much as possible."

 

 

 

Who cares about using SNAP for KIDS, older people or disabled people?......MOOCHERS.....they need to get a job and get off their butts...........right Conservatives??.......Smiley

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 4 of 177

I would like to see what posters to this very divisive issue can agree on.

 

Can we all agree that we need to increase access to preschool and higher education for all of these children? How about making preschool free, like kindergarten? Can we agree on that? What about making at least two years of college free?

 

Can we all agree that we need to increase SNAP funding to accommodate the increase in births in states that put severe limits on abortion? Every child deserves to be well nourished.

 

Can we all agree that every pregnant mother should have good maternity care, and every baby born should have good healthcare?

 

Let's see where we can find agreement. I am especially interested in hearing from those who oppose abortion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 5 of 177

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@runner50 wrote:

This sounds about right for extremist GOP HYPOCRITES......Woman Wink

 

http://theimpolitic.blogspot.com/2014_01_01_archive.html

 

http://breadnm.blogspot.com/2013_08_01_archive.html

 

http://publichealthwatch.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/the-case-for-snap-the-faulty-logic-of-cutting-fund...

 

 


And Republicans voted billions in subsidies for corporate farms while slashing nutrition for all those poor babies they insist must have been protected before they became independant people.


Just thought this needed to be out there as much as possible.

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 6 of 177

@alferdpacker wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Stop whining like an ignorant child - until we figure out how a fetus can be implanted in your body, you have no business demanding it remain in somebody else's body.  You are the one who insists on trivialization - pretending this is a matter that can and must be determined by Reichwing politicians.


That might be an interesting solution.  Transplant the fetus into an anti-abortionist's body!!!


Tx, it might not be that far away - there are multiple pregnancies now in women with transplanted wombs, and the first child was born from a woman with a transplanted womb. 

Note the age of the woman who donated the uterus!  Who woulda thunk it?

 

 First Baby Born From Transplanted Womb

 

It will eventually be possible in the future to transplant an embryo.

 

Then the only question will be whether the yammerer is willing to carry a child to term to avoid aborting it, or is all mouth and no motion.


When has the Reichwing EVER been willing to sacrifice anything more than the life of the mother and the future of the child they demand be born?

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 7 of 177

@rk9152 wrote:

Do you know?

 

Of course I don't. That was a long time ago and breakfast is starting to drift into the grey area.

 

However, since no one knows that explains why I posted, "That is probably the dividing point on the two sides of the question. Some see the child as part of the mother until the "cord is cut", while others see the child as an individual at an earlier time".

 

I am using the term "swamp" based on my understanding of that era primarily from your posts.


Do you know definitely when the fetus becomes a child?  No one does which is why the law arbitarily set a cut-off for legal abortions.  Of course you are taking the church view and where and when did they arrive at that?  The only religious guidance is that God created man and breathed the 'breath of life' into him and he became a living being.

 

I've explained the meaning behind the "swamp" and the conservative creatures that inhabit it.

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 8 of 177

Do you know?

 

Of course I don't. That was a long time ago and breakfast is starting to drift into the grey area.

 

However, since no one knows that explains why I posted, "That is probably the dividing point on the two sides of the question. Some see the child as part of the mother until the "cord is cut", while others see the child as an individual at an earlier time".

 

I am using the term "swamp" based on my understanding of that era primarily from your posts.

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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 9 of 177

Tx - Rk9152's posts demonstrate the same kind of problem as a great many conservatives - mistaking their political and social theoretical wishful thinking and imaginary cause and effect fairy tales to be an accurate and factually based personal means of interpreting reality - instead of examining their beliefs using the reality of established scientific fact and discarding obviously fallacious beliefs.

 

"Bass Ackwards" as is the usual case with a majority of conservatives.

 

It's a result of so desperately needing and wanting things to be in accordance with one's beliefs instead of reality - that one is willing to lie to oneself - and earnestly believe those lies to be correct and reality incorrect - instead of measuring one's beliefs against established factual reality and discarding those beliefs that are obviously not at all an extension of reality.

He is useless on top of the ground - he should be under it - inspiring the cabbages... Mark Twain 1894
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Re: Questions for All Those Against Abortion

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Message 10 of 177

@rk9152 wrote:

Murder, rape and kidnapping are crimes against others while abortion is in the interest of the person involved and not society.

 

That is probably the dividing point on the two sides of the question. Some see the child as part of the mother until the "cord is cut", while others see the child as an individual at an earlier time.

 

But that's ok, I understand your lack of ability to make a proper correlation

 

Just couldn't stick with the discussion without the insult, could you?? I guess that's part of the illness picked up in "the swamp".


As a female, a mother, and a mother of daughters and granddaughters, I feel that men that love to interject opinions on a subject that is mostly a feminine issue. and that by just the difference in sexes, I sincerely believe that the male species cannot really understand how women feel and act regarding this subject.
There will always be individuals females and males that will interject religious beliefs in the matter of abortions, that has always been a given, And  I have no problem with that. I feel that those people have the right to have whatever opinion they wish and lead their life according to those beliefs.
Now, for the rest of us, to try to impose their beliefs  that is not acceptable. Besides, if terminations become prohibited, the only thing that will happen is that it will drive those terminations for those that are not rich to go to any other country. to the back and then they will become dangerous.

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