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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 11 of 110

rk9152 wrote "I can't imagine how you can get them to "pay their fair share" since whatever they pay actually is passed along to the consumer via the cost of the goods or services. If you have any ideas as to how to do the fair share thing - let's talk about it."

 
Since companies have been extended the same rights as a "person" their fair share is the same as a person's fair share.
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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 12 of 110

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@KidBoy2 wrote:


When we had a business people would ask about our profit. I would say its not profit it making a living .. hope to make what a worker in the mill makes, hope to make what a school teacher makes..etc....people could understand that.

So paying board members $$Millions$$ and CEOs multiple $$Millions$$ and 400 times more that a worker makes is just "making a living" ??????  Uh ............. the correct answer is NO !


How is that class warfare jazz connected to the fact that the consumers actually pay corporate taxes?

 

Uh.......the correct answer is it isn't.


It's pointing out that the CEOs and board members are paid such ridiculously large amounts that those salaries and bonuses coul absorb much of the cost of taxes going up intead of piling it all on the consumer.

 

Why didn't you call it "class warfare" when Reagan cut taxes on the wealthiest which has cause the greatest income and wealth disparity since the 1700s ?


Ah, you've jumped on the "Regan Taxscam" bandwagon. Do you really believe that execs are paid more by their companies because their personal income tax rate was lowered. That is illogical. 

 

According to Paul Krugman (the economist of the extreme left) the wealth disparity you refer to started in the '70s. Now, do you suppose that some cosmic force predicted the Reagan Presidency and started acting on what was going to happen before it happened? Again - illogical.


I never said that it started with Reagan, it did start before that. But ............. Reagan's cuts were so massive it greatly accelerated the process. You say "illogical", that is only because of the Right Wing logic that you are using.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 13 of 110

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Can we simply deal with the basic question of where the money comes from to pay corporate taxes. It is my belief that it comes from the consumer. Can we agree on that? If so, we can then more on to other issues.


No we cannot agree completely on that but we can "move on to other issues"


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 14 of 110

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote"And this is the last time I am going to explain that the issue is not what motivates the consumer to buy. It is not a matter whether or not consumers have a choice. It is much simpler than that - taxes paid are a cost of doing business and are reflected in the price - hence, the consumer pays the taxes (albeit indirectly)."

 

You are forcing consumers to support companies even if they are not buying their products.  It is a matter of choice, whether you want to ackowledge or not.


Let's try to boil this down it the basics. I believe that any taxes a company pays comes from it's cash inflow. The cash inflow comes from the customers. Ergo, it really is the customers money that is paying the taxes.

 

Can we agree on that?


I'm confused?????

 

New Hampshire has No Sales Tax - neighboring Massachusetts has a 6.25% Sales Tax but I frequently find that I can make even major brand name purchases like Vehicles, Furniture & Appliances from a Massachusetts vendor cheaper than in New Hampshire and I live in a Border Town where the NH Prices are always the lowest in the State in order to attract Massachusetts Customers

 

A even bigger source of confusion is GE is headquartered in Boston Ma and they manufacture most of their Medical Imaging Equipment in Wisconsin........................

 

But if you look at the Cost Charged to Patients across the USA for a MRI it ranges from $500 - $15,000 for the same test using the same machine according to one Study

 

Source - http://time.com/money/2995166/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

 

GE also sells the same Imaging Equipment used in the USA to other Countries around the World

 

Here is a breakdown of the costs for a Cat Scan of a Live Adult Human Head

 

USA - $2000

 

France $212

 

Germany $319

 

Netherlands - $258

 

Spain - $161

MRI Costs.png

 

 

So - I'm having a real hard time with the argument about how the start-up costs to Shareholders and Taxes paid by Companies and the daily price to Consumers have anything at all do with the Prices a Company Charges?

 

Source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/d-brad-wright/the-price-of-diagnostic-i_b_361934.html

 

 


I don't know who is arguing the point you allude to. As for me, my point is much more direct and on topic - taxes paid by corporations come from revenues received. Those revenues are paid by the consumer. Hence, the consumer pays the taxes.


Well, if thats true then when the Corporations receive a reduction in Taxes - does the cost to the Consumer decrease?


Separate issue. All I am saying is that the money to pay taxes comes from the consumer - period. Can we agree on that and move on??


Seperate Issue?

 

It's always a seperate issue when anyone wants to discuss how unfair the Tax Code is and it's unfair burden on the Middle Class and the Advantages to the Wealthy and Corporations

 

Consumers paying taxes is and was a sideshow - if Corporations passed their Tax Savings on to consumers it might be relevant - they don;t - they pass them on to their Senior Management and Shareholders -

 

You want to raise a argument that says well shareholders deserve the funds from the Corporations Tax Breaks becuase they contributed the money to start the Companies - GE started in the 1800's - I think those shareholders have been adequately compensated for their investments already as have most large Investment Groups who back startups today

 

It was folks like yourself who took this thread away from what was the Topic Issue

 

Sure - how about we move on to the Subject of the Thread - US Corporations who make HUGE Profits and pay little in Federal Income Taxes - while the Working Poor - The Middle Class - the Elderly - have to pay taxes on all their earnings - do normal people get a few deductions and exemptions - Sure - Do Corporations and the Most Wealthy have the US Tax Code bent way over to benefit them at the expense of these other groups

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 15 of 110

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote"And this is the last time I am going to explain that the issue is not what motivates the consumer to buy. It is not a matter whether or not consumers have a choice. It is much simpler than that - taxes paid are a cost of doing business and are reflected in the price - hence, the consumer pays the taxes (albeit indirectly)."

 

You are forcing consumers to support companies even if they are not buying their products.  It is a matter of choice, whether you want to ackowledge or not.


Let's try to boil this down it the basics. I believe that any taxes a company pays comes from it's cash inflow. The cash inflow comes from the customers. Ergo, it really is the customers money that is paying the taxes.

 

Can we agree on that?


So why do you expect me to support a company whos products I choose not to buy.  The end customer should be paying the full cost of the product and not expecting it to be subsidized in the free market.


Can we simply deal with the basic question of where the money comes from to pay corporate taxes. It is my belief that it comes from the consumer. Can we agree on that? If so, we can then more on to other issues.


All costs for a good or service will be beared by the end user.  If corporations are allowed to pay a lower tax rate, this means that all consumers are forced to subsidize a corporation to artificially deflate their price points, with the cost being passed on to all.  If you really believe in a free market, than you should also believe in the power of the consumer to pick and choose what and how much they consume.


Again - I'll be glad to get into all that with you. But can we resolve the question of who actually pays corporate taxes?


I've already answered (multiple times) who pays and who should.  If you choose to read something into my answer that is or is not there, that is up to you.


I have several times asked if we are in agreement. A simple "yes" or "no" would allow us to move on to the other aspects you are interested in. Quite frankly, I have read your responses and have never seen that answer. Instead I saw comments sorta nibbling around the edges but not getting to the issue itself.


How is this nibbling around the edge "All costs for a good or service will be beared by the end user."?  You still have not answered shy companies should expect to not pay a fair share like everybody else.


I can't imagine how you can get them to "pay their fair share" since whatever they pay actually is passed along to the consumer via the cost of the goods or services. If you have any ideas as to how to do the fair share thing - let's talk about it.

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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 16 of 110

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote"And this is the last time I am going to explain that the issue is not what motivates the consumer to buy. It is not a matter whether or not consumers have a choice. It is much simpler than that - taxes paid are a cost of doing business and are reflected in the price - hence, the consumer pays the taxes (albeit indirectly)."

 

You are forcing consumers to support companies even if they are not buying their products.  It is a matter of choice, whether you want to ackowledge or not.


Let's try to boil this down it the basics. I believe that any taxes a company pays comes from it's cash inflow. The cash inflow comes from the customers. Ergo, it really is the customers money that is paying the taxes.

 

Can we agree on that?


I'm confused?????

 

New Hampshire has No Sales Tax - neighboring Massachusetts has a 6.25% Sales Tax but I frequently find that I can make even major brand name purchases like Vehicles, Furniture & Appliances from a Massachusetts vendor cheaper than in New Hampshire and I live in a Border Town where the NH Prices are always the lowest in the State in order to attract Massachusetts Customers

 

A even bigger source of confusion is GE is headquartered in Boston Ma and they manufacture most of their Medical Imaging Equipment in Wisconsin........................

 

But if you look at the Cost Charged to Patients across the USA for a MRI it ranges from $500 - $15,000 for the same test using the same machine according to one Study

 

Source - http://time.com/money/2995166/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

 

GE also sells the same Imaging Equipment used in the USA to other Countries around the World

 

Here is a breakdown of the costs for a Cat Scan of a Live Adult Human Head

 

USA - $2000

 

France $212

 

Germany $319

 

Netherlands - $258

 

Spain - $161

MRI Costs.png

 

 

So - I'm having a real hard time with the argument about how the start-up costs to Shareholders and Taxes paid by Companies and the daily price to Consumers have anything at all do with the Prices a Company Charges?

 

Source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/d-brad-wright/the-price-of-diagnostic-i_b_361934.html

 

 


I don't know who is arguing the point you allude to. As for me, my point is much more direct and on topic - taxes paid by corporations come from revenues received. Those revenues are paid by the consumer. Hence, the consumer pays the taxes.


Well, if thats true then when the Corporations receive a reduction in Taxes - does the cost to the Consumer decrease?


Separate issue. All I am saying is that the money to pay taxes comes from the consumer - period. Can we agree on that and move on??

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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 17 of 110

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote"And this is the last time I am going to explain that the issue is not what motivates the consumer to buy. It is not a matter whether or not consumers have a choice. It is much simpler than that - taxes paid are a cost of doing business and are reflected in the price - hence, the consumer pays the taxes (albeit indirectly)."

 

You are forcing consumers to support companies even if they are not buying their products.  It is a matter of choice, whether you want to ackowledge or not.


Let's try to boil this down it the basics. I believe that any taxes a company pays comes from it's cash inflow. The cash inflow comes from the customers. Ergo, it really is the customers money that is paying the taxes.

 

Can we agree on that?


So why do you expect me to support a company whos products I choose not to buy.  The end customer should be paying the full cost of the product and not expecting it to be subsidized in the free market.


Can we simply deal with the basic question of where the money comes from to pay corporate taxes. It is my belief that it comes from the consumer. Can we agree on that? If so, we can then more on to other issues.


All costs for a good or service will be beared by the end user.  If corporations are allowed to pay a lower tax rate, this means that all consumers are forced to subsidize a corporation to artificially deflate their price points, with the cost being passed on to all.  If you really believe in a free market, than you should also believe in the power of the consumer to pick and choose what and how much they consume.


Again - I'll be glad to get into all that with you. But can we resolve the question of who actually pays corporate taxes?


I've already answered (multiple times) who pays and who should.  If you choose to read something into my answer that is or is not there, that is up to you.


I have several times asked if we are in agreement. A simple "yes" or "no" would allow us to move on to the other aspects you are interested in. Quite frankly, I have read your responses and have never seen that answer. Instead I saw comments sorta nibbling around the edges but not getting to the issue itself.


How is this nibbling around the edge "All costs for a good or service will be beared by the end user."?  You still have not answered shy companies should expect to not pay a fair share like everybody else.

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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 18 of 110

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote"And this is the last time I am going to explain that the issue is not what motivates the consumer to buy. It is not a matter whether or not consumers have a choice. It is much simpler than that - taxes paid are a cost of doing business and are reflected in the price - hence, the consumer pays the taxes (albeit indirectly)."

 

You are forcing consumers to support companies even if they are not buying their products.  It is a matter of choice, whether you want to ackowledge or not.


Let's try to boil this down it the basics. I believe that any taxes a company pays comes from it's cash inflow. The cash inflow comes from the customers. Ergo, it really is the customers money that is paying the taxes.

 

Can we agree on that?


I'm confused?????

 

New Hampshire has No Sales Tax - neighboring Massachusetts has a 6.25% Sales Tax but I frequently find that I can make even major brand name purchases like Vehicles, Furniture & Appliances from a Massachusetts vendor cheaper than in New Hampshire and I live in a Border Town where the NH Prices are always the lowest in the State in order to attract Massachusetts Customers

 

A even bigger source of confusion is GE is headquartered in Boston Ma and they manufacture most of their Medical Imaging Equipment in Wisconsin........................

 

But if you look at the Cost Charged to Patients across the USA for a MRI it ranges from $500 - $15,000 for the same test using the same machine according to one Study

 

Source - http://time.com/money/2995166/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

 

GE also sells the same Imaging Equipment used in the USA to other Countries around the World

 

Here is a breakdown of the costs for a Cat Scan of a Live Adult Human Head

 

USA - $2000

 

France $212

 

Germany $319

 

Netherlands - $258

 

Spain - $161

MRI Costs.png

 

 

So - I'm having a real hard time with the argument about how the start-up costs to Shareholders and Taxes paid by Companies and the daily price to Consumers have anything at all do with the Prices a Company Charges?

 

Source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/d-brad-wright/the-price-of-diagnostic-i_b_361934.html

 

 


I don't know who is arguing the point you allude to. As for me, my point is much more direct and on topic - taxes paid by corporations come from revenues received. Those revenues are paid by the consumer. Hence, the consumer pays the taxes.


Well, if thats true then when the Corporations receive a reduction in Taxes - does the cost to the Consumer decrease?

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 19 of 110

@pc6063 wrote:

Sales tax is paid by customers and is just turned over to the state.  It has nothing to do with company profits.  Income taxes and property taxes are paid by almost everyone-(I realize some states handle things differenctly)--but those taxes are used by states to pay for a multitude of projects and needs.  Stupid to think coorporations, large or small businesses shouldn't pay their fair share.  This shifts burden to individuals.  The communities suffer as monies are no longer there to pay for needed projects, schools etc. 

Lack of restrictions lead to fraud, inferior product quality, pollution--can't think of ANYTHING more irresponsible--EXCEPT MAYBE THE FOOL ON THE HILL, who by the way, subscribes to the inane idea that restrictions are bad.


I don't believe the topic was ever about State or local taxes. Although the same principle applies. Since the company gets the money to pay for it's materials from the consumer, the consumer is paying for the materials. Likewise , since the company gets the money to pay taxes from the consumer, the consumer is paying for the taxes.

 

The issue isn't how the taxing body spends the taxes, it is who actually pays the taxes.

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Re: Profitable US Companies - No Taxes Paid?

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Message 20 of 110

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

rk9152 wrote"And this is the last time I am going to explain that the issue is not what motivates the consumer to buy. It is not a matter whether or not consumers have a choice. It is much simpler than that - taxes paid are a cost of doing business and are reflected in the price - hence, the consumer pays the taxes (albeit indirectly)."

 

You are forcing consumers to support companies even if they are not buying their products.  It is a matter of choice, whether you want to ackowledge or not.


Let's try to boil this down it the basics. I believe that any taxes a company pays comes from it's cash inflow. The cash inflow comes from the customers. Ergo, it really is the customers money that is paying the taxes.

 

Can we agree on that?


I'm confused?????

 

New Hampshire has No Sales Tax - neighboring Massachusetts has a 6.25% Sales Tax but I frequently find that I can make even major brand name purchases like Vehicles, Furniture & Appliances from a Massachusetts vendor cheaper than in New Hampshire and I live in a Border Town where the NH Prices are always the lowest in the State in order to attract Massachusetts Customers

 

A even bigger source of confusion is GE is headquartered in Boston Ma and they manufacture most of their Medical Imaging Equipment in Wisconsin........................

 

But if you look at the Cost Charged to Patients across the USA for a MRI it ranges from $500 - $15,000 for the same test using the same machine according to one Study

 

Source - http://time.com/money/2995166/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

 

GE also sells the same Imaging Equipment used in the USA to other Countries around the World

 

Here is a breakdown of the costs for a Cat Scan of a Live Adult Human Head

 

USA - $2000

 

France $212

 

Germany $319

 

Netherlands - $258

 

Spain - $161

MRI Costs.png

 

 

So - I'm having a real hard time with the argument about how the start-up costs to Shareholders and Taxes paid by Companies and the daily price to Consumers have anything at all do with the Prices a Company Charges?

 

Source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/d-brad-wright/the-price-of-diagnostic-i_b_361934.html

 

 


I don't know who is arguing the point you allude to. As for me, my point is much more direct and on topic - taxes paid by corporations come from revenues received. Those revenues are paid by the consumer. Hence, the consumer pays the taxes.

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