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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 1 of 47

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

Poor people shouldn't have children??? Surely you aren't serious, RK. You do realize a lot of us wouldn't be here if poor people didn't have children. Think about it . . .

Does a person or couple not have an obligation to children they bring into the world? I am the result of semi-poverty. My parents fed and clothed me - they did not look to someone else to do it. They accepted responsibilityor my education and upbringing. I was THEIR child, not a ward of the State as is so often the case these days.

As did mine. But I also saw the effects of stress and the toll it took on my father's health.  

But our parents accepted their responsibility and we learned by seeing it in action.

So I agree that just spending more money doesn't necessarily solve problems. LBJ's war on poverty had good intentions, but was poorly planned and executed. There is a link between poverty and lack of education, and that's what he had hoped to address and give people a chance to improve their lives. 

He created generation after generation in poverty by destroying the basic family unit of the poor. Collecting required a one parent home and in order to get more, you had to produce another child.

 As I said, it was poorly planned. It failed because it didn't get to the core of the problem that LBJ meant to solve which was education.

Agreed - yet the mindset exists today.

@ManicProgressive  has a good example of what can be done, but it starts at the local level. More cooperation between the public sector and non-profits could be a good place to start. It's about using resources wisely, and getting money where it's most needed. A combination of tax dollars and grant money supplied by foundations could go a long way. But we still must use tax dollars to see that our teachers are well paid and that we have modern classrooms to serve all children.

The problem with that is the emphasis on "other people" not parents.

I disagree. The parents are still responsible for the welfare of their children. These programs are designed to fill in the gaps, such as food and nutrition, child care assistance, and programs for at risk students, just to name a few. It's not about putting money in their pockets, it's about targeted services to enable parents to better care for their children. Some of it may even involve parental education. That could be a subject all it's own, so I'll leave it there.

Unfortunately, it is not the parents in that scenario providing the necessities of life. Hence, not fulfilling their obligations and creating a bad example for the children. 

One of the biggest problems, IMO, is the way stress can and does affect families and children. It directly affects health, as I mentioned above. It may also contribute to addiction problems and mental health issues. Stress can strain the family unit, and in many cases is the cause for families being torn apart if they do not know how to support one another.

 I can't argue with the effects of stress. But I do not believe it was invented this decade.

Those programs that TemperM listed were designed to provide some relief to physical and financial stress factors. If things were tough for our parents, it's much worse today, for people who are truly poor, or barely getting by living paycheck to paycheck. And it is devastating to those in poor neighborhoods that are overrun with crime, violence, and drugs. So that also has to be addressed.

But, is it not the residents of the neighborhoods creating the crime, violence, and drugs. I do not think we can "buy" our way out of that.

 

I do not advocate for welfare as was done in the past, but targeted support for working families through various programs and tax credits designed to address specific issues, and education in particular. 

 

One example that seems to be catching on is more hands-on vocational or technical training, that is being done successfully in some places. Not everyone needs or can afford a 4-year college, but they can still be trained to get good paying jobs. The same may be true for getting the parents trained for a modern workforce. That requires some form of subsidy. If we can subsidize corporations and other special interest groups, please explain to me why we cannot afford to subsidize education for the people who really need it and cannot otherwise afford it.

I am all for training for kids that will set the kids up for jobs. But, the government can create them - studying is the responsibility of the students - it cannot be legislated.


 

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 2 of 47
This is what I posted to start this thread. My point was and is that our media is so wrapped up about the children at the boarder we have neglected the problem we have with many thousands of children being taken away from their parents.

Am I the only one that sees this as a bigger problem and a longer lasting problem than what is going on at our southern boarder?

7-01-2018 06:29 PM
All we hear about is the problem on our southern boarder were children are separated from their parents for like 20 days. Yes, this is a problem but get real. We have much worse problems in our country with legals.



How many children are taken away from their parents because of divorce?



How many children do not have a family (single mom or single dad)?



How many children are taken away because their parents broke the law....if a family member does not take them in they are sent to foster home.



The bottom line is...

The American Family: An Endangered and Disappearing Species



I have always given president Obama credit because he saw this problem and he encouraged people to stay together as a family as it brings down our crime rate and lessens dependency on government programs.

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 3 of 47

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

Poor people shouldn't have children??? Surely you aren't serious, RK. You do realize a lot of us wouldn't be here if poor people didn't have children. Think about it . . .

Does a person or couple not have an obligation to children they bring into the world? I am the result of semi-poverty. My parents fed and clothed me - they did not look to someone else to do it. They accepted responsibilityor my education and upbringing. I was THEIR child, not a ward of the State as is so often the case these days.

As did mine. But I also saw the effects of stress and the toll it took on my father's health.  

So I agree that just spending more money doesn't necessarily solve problems. LBJ's war on poverty had good intentions, but was poorly planned and executed. There is a link between poverty and lack of education, and that's what he had hoped to address and give people a chance to improve their lives. 

He created generation after generation in poverty by destroying the basic family unit of the poor. Collecting required a one parent home and in order to get more, you had to produce another child.

 As I said, it was poorly planned. It failed because it didn't get to the core of the problem that LBJ meant to solve which was education.

@ManicProgressive  has a good example of what can be done, but it starts at the local level. More cooperation between the public sector and non-profits could be a good place to start. It's about using resources wisely, and getting money where it's most needed. A combination of tax dollars and grant money supplied by foundations could go a long way. But we still must use tax dollars to see that our teachers are well paid and that we have modern classrooms to serve all children.

The problem with that is the emphasis on "other people" not parents.

I disagree. The parents are still responsible for the welfare of their children. These programs are designed to fill in the gaps, such as food and nutrition, child care assistance, and programs for at risk students, just to name a few. It's not about putting money in their pockets, it's about targeted services to enable parents to better care for their children. Some of it may even involve parental education. That could be a subject all it's own, so I'll leave it there.

 

One of the biggest problems, IMO, is the way stress can and does affect families and children. It directly affects health, as I mentioned above. It may also contribute to addiction problems and mental health issues. Stress can strain the family unit, and in many cases is the cause for families being torn apart if they do not know how to support one another.

 

Those programs that TemperM listed were designed to provide some relief to physical and financial stress factors. If things were tough for our parents, it's much worse today, for people who are truly poor, or barely getting by living paycheck to paycheck. And it is devastating to those in poor neighborhoods that are overrun with crime, violence, and drugs. So that also has to be addressed.

 

I do not advocate for welfare as was done in the past, but targeted support for working families through various programs and tax credits designed to address specific issues, and education in particular. 

 

One example that seems to be catching on is more hands-on vocational or technical training, that is being done successfully in some places. Not everyone needs or can afford a 4-year college, but they can still be trained to get good paying jobs. The same may be true for getting the parents trained for a modern workforce. That requires some form of subsidy. If we can subsidize corporations and other special interest groups, please explain to me why we cannot afford to subsidize education for the people who really need it and cannot otherwise afford it.

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 4 of 47

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Low wages and both parents having to work full time is a problem for our children. An even bigger problem is how poorer school districts have less funds for their schools, thanks to Reagan eliminating Revenue Sharing.


One way of looking at your first situation is that those who cannot afford children should not have children.

 

School funding - the national average spending per student is $9,562. The DC spending is $26,661. DC does not rank high in performance showing the the leftist standard view of "spend more of the other guy's money" does not answer all problems.


Poor people shouldn't have children??? Surely you aren't serious, RK. You do realize a lot of us wouldn't be here if poor people didn't have children. Think about it . . .

Does a person or couple not have an obligation to children they bring into the world? I am the result of semi-poverty. My parents fed and clothed me - they did not look to someone else to do it. They accepted responsibilityor my education and upbringing. I was THEIR child, not a ward of the State as is so often the case these days.

 

So I agree that just spending more money doesn't necessarily solve problems. LBJ's war on poverty had good intentions, but was poorly planned and executed. There is a link between poverty and lack of education, and that's what he had hoped to address and give people a chance to improve their lives. 

He created generation after generation in poverty by destroying the basic family unit of the poor. Collecting required a one parent home and in order to get more, you had to produce another child.

 

@ManicProgressive  has a good example of what can be done, but it starts at the local level. More cooperation between the public sector and non-profits could be a good place to start. It's about using resources wisely, and getting money where it's most needed. A combination of tax dollars and grant money supplied by foundations could go a long way. But we still must use tax dollars to see that our teachers are well paid and that we have modern classrooms to serve all children.

The problem with that is the emphasis on "other people" not parents.


 

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 5 of 47

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Low wages and both parents having to work full time is a problem for our children. An even bigger problem is how poorer school districts have less funds for their schools, thanks to Reagan eliminating Revenue Sharing.


One way of looking at your first situation is that those who cannot afford children should not have children.

 

School funding - the national average spending per student is $9,562. The DC spending is $26,661. DC does not rank high in performance showing the the leftist standard view of "spend more of the other guy's money" does not answer all problems.


Poor people shouldn't have children??? Surely you aren't serious, RK. You do realize a lot of us wouldn't be here if poor people didn't have children. Think about it . . . 

 

So I agree that just spending more money doesn't necessarily solve problems. LBJ's war on poverty had good intentions, but was poorly planned and executed. There is a link between poverty and lack of education, and that's what he had hoped to address and give people a chance to improve their lives. 

 

@ManicProgressive  has a good example of what can be done, but it starts at the local level. More cooperation between the public sector and non-profits could be a good place to start. It's about using resources wisely, and getting money where it's most needed. A combination of tax dollars and grant money supplied by foundations could go a long way. But we still must use tax dollars to see that our teachers are well paid and that we have modern classrooms to serve all children.

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 6 of 47

@Soosie wrote:
Address poverty and the kids will be better off in all ways.@TemperMental...........Share some ideas about how to address and how to find funding. I know from some of your earlier posts, you have some good ideas. Unfortunately, I have seen a side of it where money was allocated to the problem, but some came out of it just as they were. I think some basic training of management, priorities, etc. would have to be taught. It is sorta like saying, "all the pipes under my home have leaks, but I will do good by working on one of them to make things all better."

My county does it well. Not perfectly. Robust public transportation. Reduced cost housing. Provision of health care. Free preschool for low income families. Free and reduced meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner (for those at after school activities). Child care assistance. (Child care here averages $2,000 a month). Weekend backpack meals and summer meals for low income kids.   High performing public schools and community college. After school programs for at risk kids. Focus on rehabilitation instead of incarceration. Problem solving courts like mental health court and drug court.  One stop shop to address domestic violence. Mandatory paid sick leave.  

 

Much of this is funded with tax revenues. But much of it is funded through private charities. We have excellent public-private partnerships.  Things like Red Wiggler farm, which employs adults with developmental disabilities. It sells the produce as CSA farm shares and makes a lot of money that way. But it also donates a significant amount of produce weekly to our local food bank. We have several local businesses like grocery stores that are committed to hiring people with disabilities, so they are gainfully employed, making decent money, instead of relying as much on things like Medicaid. 

 

We have American job centers, a federal initiative, that offer career counseling, employment referrals, basic skill building (like teaching interview skills), and other training programs like flagger certification (construction related) and ServSafe certification for food handling. 

 

Maybe it all works because we have an extremely active volunteer community here. People really work together across agencies, businesses, and nonprofits. 

 

The result is, in a public school system where more than half the students are black or Latino, we have a 90% graduation rate. We still have an achievement gap between whites/Asians and African Americans/Latinos. But it gets smaller each year. We have a very low unemployment rate. A low poverty rate (7% compared to about 12% statewide). And we have a very low per-capita crime rate.  Which is good, IMO, for a county of a million plus.

 

It’s not perfect. We have some significant issues. We are higher than the state average for opiate deaths. We have recently-returned gang issues.  And we have a retiring workforce (less tax revenues). But when you have reliable public transportation to work, school, and home; paid sick leave that keeps your paycheck stable; and child care that is affordable, you are more likely to be employed, stay employed, and be able to advance.  And with one of the best public school systems in the nation, all kids are getting a good education. 

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 7 of 47

@BigLib wrote:



Rather than answering a loaded question

 

 

 

 


What makes Kid Boy's question a loaded one?  It was a straight-forth simple one.

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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 8 of 47

@KidBoy2 wrote:
BigLib posted..

BigLib posted..

And then there's the whole endorsing a pedophile thing.

=======================

Again a post that does not address the subject of this thread.




But it does address the subject of the thread. Do you really trust the judgement of people who endorse pedophiles - and let's not forget, pedophiles target CHILDREN - do you trust the judgement of people who endorse pedophiles to actually have solutions children need?

=======================

Again another post that does not address the subject of this thread.

Do you have any suggestions how we can bring back the family? That is what President Obama wanted as he understood that doing so would reduce crime and reduce the number of people on government programs. Good things!

Rather than answering a loaded question, what, exactly, are Obama's words that you keep referring to. Not that I don't trust your recollection and interpretation of those words, but -- ok, it's that.

 

And, again, I don't think any entity that endorses pedophiles has any business in the affairs of children.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 9 of 47
BigLib posted..

BigLib posted..

And then there's the whole endorsing a pedophile thing.

=======================

Again a post that does not address the subject of this thread.




But it does address the subject of the thread. Do you really trust the judgement of people who endorse pedophiles - and let's not forget, pedophiles target CHILDREN - do you trust the judgement of people who endorse pedophiles to actually have solutions children need?

=======================

Again another post that does not address the subject of this thread.

Do you have any suggestions how we can bring back the family? That is what President Obama wanted as he understood that doing so would reduce crime and reduce the number of people on government programs. Good things!
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Re: Problem in our country with our children

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Message 10 of 47

@PaintItBlack wrote:


 


I told you that liberals are unreasonable and make up stuff as they go along.


Wow, all those facts and you simply sweep them under the rug because they don't fit your Trump bubble. 

 

Here's an easier way for you to argue your points:

 

[clap hands over ears]

 

LALALALALALA, I can't heeeaaaar you!


Infantile!

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