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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 1 of 41

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:


Using the tried (since c. 5000BCE) and true method of supporting Civilization by taxing those who receive the greatest benefit, we tamed our mighty rivers, built the most efficient and effective infrastructure the World had ever seen, went to the Moon,  created the biggest middle class, increased our life expectancy and reduced the hours we worked, and every year shrank the gap between rich and poor while both groups got richer.

 

So what things have happened to MAGA since 1985 when the Reaganscam began the most massive redistribution of wealth and income from the Middle Class to the top 10%? What areas of life have improved, in your view?


I must admit that 5000BCE is a wee bit before my time so I'll have to take your word for it. However I would point out that going to the moon, building infrastructure, taming rivers, etc. are not "means tested" payout items. When nanny starts paying for your food, housing, etc. etc. that is where the dependency comes into the picture.

 

About that middle class back in your "Golden Era" - that was not built be nanny. It was built by free market capitalism in a world pretty much having had it's industry destroyed by WWII - certainly not by taxes.

 

Now, back to Uncle Karl who you disavow - which of his 10 Planks do you not like? 


When nanny is controlled by We the People, We the People control it. Not sure how much more that fact can be simplified.

 

Free Market Capitalism did not contribute a bullet for our Army, lay a foot of highway,  a brick of a public school or give an apple to a teacher.

 

The building of all those things was done by your "nanny" who included the cost of building and maintaining our Civilization in the cost of all other economic activity because that activity benefits from the Civilization nanny provides for it.

 

You pay more when you have more BECAUSE that way everyone has enough after they pay, and you DON'T pay when you don't have enough. It's been that way since Civilization began. And those Civilizations that took from those who didn't have enough as neoRepublicans demand?

 

They vanished. "Tax Farming"  that Rome thought could replace taxes on their Uberrich could not contribute enough to sustain the civilization (e.g., pay the Legions) and Rome fell to groups of protoRepublicans who took EVERYTHING from the poor.

 

What part of our Civilization do you think "Free Markets" provided? What parts should we dispense with so the rich are not taxed?


You do have an interesting, cartoonish view of history. But, based on it, you do not believe in a free market economy. That leaves two alternatives involving  the economy and the government - fascism and Communism. Your 'druthers? I would guess fascism.

 

And, about Marxism - which of his 10 Planks do you disagree with? If you don't that sorta dismisses your protestations about Marxism.

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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 2 of 41

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:


Using the tried (since c. 5000BCE) and true method of supporting Civilization by taxing those who receive the greatest benefit, we tamed our mighty rivers, built the most efficient and effective infrastructure the World had ever seen, went to the Moon,  created the biggest middle class, increased our life expectancy and reduced the hours we worked, and every year shrank the gap between rich and poor while both groups got richer.

 

So what things have happened to MAGA since 1985 when the Reaganscam began the most massive redistribution of wealth and income from the Middle Class to the top 10%? What areas of life have improved, in your view?


I must admit that 5000BCE is a wee bit before my time so I'll have to take your word for it. However I would point out that going to the moon, building infrastructure, taming rivers, etc. are not "means tested" payout items. When nanny starts paying for your food, housing, etc. etc. that is where the dependency comes into the picture.

 

About that middle class back in your "Golden Era" - that was not built be nanny. It was built by free market capitalism in a world pretty much having had it's industry destroyed by WWII - certainly not by taxes.

 

Now, back to Uncle Karl who you disavow - which of his 10 Planks do you not like? 


When nanny is controlled by We the People, We the People control it. Not sure how much more that fact can be simplified.

 

Free Market Capitalism did not contribute a bullet for our Army, lay a foot of highway,  a brick of a public school or give an apple to a teacher.

 

The building of all those things was done by your "nanny" who included the cost of building and maintaining our Civilization in the cost of all other economic activity because that activity benefits from the Civilization nanny provides for it.

 

You pay more when you have more BECAUSE that way everyone has enough after they pay, and you DON'T pay when you don't have enough. It's been that way since Civilization began. And those Civilizations that took from those who didn't have enough as neoRepublicans demand?

 

They vanished. "Tax Farming"  that Rome thought could replace taxes on their Uberrich could not contribute enough to sustain the civilization (e.g., pay the Legions) and Rome fell to groups of protoRepublicans who took EVERYTHING from the poor.

 

What part of our Civilization do you think "Free Markets" provided? What parts should we dispense with so the rich are not taxed?

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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 3 of 41

@Olderscout66 wrote:


Using the tried (since c. 5000BCE) and true method of supporting Civilization by taxing those who receive the greatest benefit, we tamed our mighty rivers, built the most efficient and effective infrastructurer the World had ever seen, went to the Moon,  created the biggest middle class, increased our life expectency and reduced the hours we worked, and every year shrank the gap between rich and poor while both groups got richer.

 

So what things have happened to MAGA since 1985 when the Reaganscam began the most massive redistribution of wealth and income from the Middle Class to the top 10%? What areas of life have improved, in your view?


I must admit that 5000BCE is a wee bit before my time so I'll have to take your word for it. However I would point out that going to the moon, building infrastructure, taming rivers, etc. are not "means tested" payout items. When nanny starts paying for your food, housing, etc. etc. that is where the dependency comes into the picture.

 

About that middle class back in your "Golden Era" - that was not built be nanny. It was built by free market capitalism in a world pretty much having had it's industry destroyed by WWII - certainly not by taxes.

 

Now, back to Uncle Karl who you disavow - which of his 10 Planks do you not like? 

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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 4 of 41

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:


@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We have one of the least intrusive governments in the world. It is also one of the least beneficial for the majority of its citizens. 


The Founding Fathers saw the results of intrusive government and wrote out Constitution so as to prevent it. Their thinking was that freedom rather than dependence was the best product of government.


No, first they wrote The Articles of Confederation and adopted it March 1, 1781. THAT was the document that prevented the "intrusive government".

 

But it turned out that the government desired by neoRepublicans today was INCAPABLE of functioning in the complexities of the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY, so they abandoned the current Republican plan, wrote the Constitution and adopted it September 17, 1787. The neoRepublican ideal of Government small enough that it "could be drowned in the bathtub" only lasted SIX YEARS.

 

In the Constitution they gave great power to the Central Government, but arranged to control that power by having 3 separate, EQUAL branches - Legislative to write the Law, Executive to carry out the Law and Judicial to resolves disputes in the Law. This Democrat espoused form of Government is working just fine after TWO HUNDRED THIRTY-TWO YEARS.

 

The reason the GOPerLords of today want so desperately want us to return to the Government that FAILED in 1786 is simple: The Government that replaced the failure is the ONLY force capable of protecting We the People from the predation of the Corporate Oligarchs who periodically destroy the economy to enrich themselves by impoverishing the 99%.

 

 


And others want us to adopt a failed government model first defined in 1848 which did little to protect "we the people" from Oligarchs or anyone else.

 

The Founding Fathers had the right idea, the other guy didn't.


Which is why NOBODY ever tried "the other guy's" method, and nobody is trying to make it new or neo today.

 

Again - which of his 10 Planks do you disagree with?


Using the tried (since c. 5000BCE) and true method of supporting Civilization by taxing those who receive the greatest benefit, we tamed our mighty rivers, built the most efficient and effective infrastructurer the World had ever seen, went to the Moon,  created the biggest middle class, increased our life expectency and reduced the hours we worked, and every year shrank the gap between rich and poor while both groups got richer.

 

So what things have happened to MAGA since 1985 when the Reaganscam began the most massive redistribution of wealth and income from the Middle Class to the top 10%? What areas of life have improved, in your view?

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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 5 of 41

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:


@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We have one of the least intrusive governments in the world. It is also one of the least beneficial for the majority of its citizens. 


The Founding Fathers saw the results of intrusive government and wrote out Constitution so as to prevent it. Their thinking was that freedom rather than dependence was the best product of government.


No, first they wrote The Articles of Confederation and adopted it March 1, 1781. THAT was the document that prevented the "intrusive government".

 

But it turned out that the government desired by neoRepublicans today was INCAPABLE of functioning in the complexities of the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY, so they abandoned the current Republican plan, wrote the Constitution and adopted it September 17, 1787. The neoRepublican ideal of Government small enough that it "could be drowned in the bathtub" only lasted SIX YEARS.

 

In the Constitution they gave great power to the Central Government, but arranged to control that power by having 3 separate, EQUAL branches - Legislative to write the Law, Executive to carry out the Law and Judicial to resolves disputes in the Law. This Democrat espoused form of Government is working just fine after TWO HUNDRED THIRTY-TWO YEARS.

 

The reason the GOPerLords of today want so desperately want us to return to the Government that FAILED in 1786 is simple: The Government that replaced the failure is the ONLY force capable of protecting We the People from the predation of the Corporate Oligarchs who periodically destroy the economy to enrich themselves by impoverishing the 99%.

 

 


And others want us to adopt a failed government model first defined in 1848 which did little to protect "we the people" from Oligarchs or anyone else.

 

The Founding Fathers had the right idea, the other guy didn't.


Which is why NOBODY ever tried "the other guy's" method, and nobody is trying to make it new or neo today.

 

Again - which of his 10 Planks do you disagree with?

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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 6 of 41

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:


@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We have one of the least intrusive governments in the world. It is also one of the least beneficial for the majority of its citizens. 


The Founding Fathers saw the results of intrusive government and wrote out Constitution so as to prevent it. Their thinking was that freedom rather than dependence was the best product of government.


No, first they wrote The Articles of Confederation and adopted it March 1, 1781. THAT was the document that prevented the "intrusive government".

 

But it turned out that the government desired by neoRepublicans today was INCAPABLE of functioning in the complexities of the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY, so they abandoned the current Republican plan, wrote the Constitution and adopted it September 17, 1787. The neoRepublican ideal of Government small enough that it "could be drowned in the bathtub" only lasted SIX YEARS.

 

In the Constitution they gave great power to the Central Government, but arranged to control that power by having 3 separate, EQUAL branches - Legislative to write the Law, Executive to carry out the Law and Judicial to resolves disputes in the Law. This Democrat espoused form of Government is working just fine after TWO HUNDRED THIRTY-TWO YEARS.

 

The reason the GOPerLords of today want so desperately want us to return to the Government that FAILED in 1786 is simple: The Government that replaced the failure is the ONLY force capable of protecting We the People from the predation of the Corporate Oligarchs who periodically destroy the economy to enrich themselves by impoverishing the 99%.

 

 


And others want us to adopt a failed government model first defined in 1848 which did little to protect "we the people" from Oligarchs or anyone else.

 

The Founding Fathers had the right idea, the other guy didn't.


Which is why NOBODY ever tried "the other guy's" method, and nobody is trying to make it new or neo today. But using the tried (since c. 5000BCE) and true method of supporting Civilization by taxing those who receive the greatest benefit, we tamed our mighty rivers, built the most efficient and effective infrastructurer the World had ever seen, went to the Moon,  created the biggest middle class, increased our life expectency and reduced the hours we worked, and every year shrank the gap between rich and poor while both groups got richer.

 

So what things have happened to MAGA since 1985 when the Reaganscam began the most massive redistribution of wealth and income from the Middle Class to the top 10%? What areas of life have improved, in your view?

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Re: Our Nanny Government

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Message 7 of 41

@Olderscout66 wrote:


@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We have one of the least intrusive governments in the world. It is also one of the least beneficial for the majority of its citizens. 


The Founding Fathers saw the results of intrusive government and wrote out Constitution so as to prevent it. Their thinking was that freedom rather than dependence was the best product of government.


No, first they wrote The Articles of Confederation and adopted it March 1, 1781. THAT was the document that prevented the "intrusive government".

 

But it turned out that the government desired by neoRepublicans today was INCAPABLE of functioning in the complexities of the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY, so they abandoned the current Republican plan, wrote the Constitution and adopted it September 17, 1787. The neoRepublican ideal of Government small enough that it "could be drowned in the bathtub" only lasted SIX YEARS.

 

In the Constitution they gave great power to the Central Government, but arranged to control that power by having 3 separate, EQUAL branches - Legislative to write the Law, Executive to carry out the Law and Judicial to resolves disputes in the Law. This Democrat espoused form of Government is working just fine after TWO HUNDRED THIRTY-TWO YEARS.

 

The reason the GOPerLords of today want so desperately want us to return to the Government that FAILED in 1786 is simple: The Government that replaced the failure is the ONLY force capable of protecting We the People from the predation of the Corporate Oligarchs who periodically destroy the economy to enrich themselves by impoverishing the 99%.

 

 


And others want us to adopt a failed government model first defined in 1848 which did little to protect "we the people" from Oligarchs or anyone else.

 

The Founding Fathers had the right idea, the other guy didn't.

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Message 8 of 41

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

rk9152  cries "A mindset of survival based on dependency does not create a great life style."

--------------------

Imagine If all hard working Americans had the luxury to retire with his Federal Pension with Cost of Living Increases and Lifetime Medical mostly paid by other hard working Tax Payers ?

Talk about Dependency !

Then he has the nerve to complain about the same Tax Dollars that buttered his bread !!

Some people.

 


Many people of our age receive retirement benefits from their employer, often union created. If one worked in a job where they were not contribution to a retirement program, it would have been wise to invest in a private plan.

 

BTW - rk doesn't "cry" he accurately states that, "A mindset of survival based on dependency does not create a great life style." Would mand care to comment on that rather than getting personal??


Would you care to comment on living in retirement off of taxpayer dollars (dependency on the government) ?


Certainly - Any retirement is earned through many years of working regardless of the form it takes. To that is living off past effort and regardless of the employer.

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Message 9 of 41

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We have one of the least intrusive governments in the world. It is also one of the least beneficial for the majority of its citizens. 


The Founding Fathers saw the results of intrusive government and wrote out Constitution so as to prevent it. Their thinking was that freedom rather than dependence was the best product of government.


So then you can easily post some of the writings of the Founding Fathers that support your words?


So then you can easily see the world of the time and the structure of the Constitutional government.

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Message 10 of 41


@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We have one of the least intrusive governments in the world. It is also one of the least beneficial for the majority of its citizens. 


The Founding Fathers saw the results of intrusive government and wrote out Constitution so as to prevent it. Their thinking was that freedom rather than dependence was the best product of government.


No, first they wrote The Articles of Confederation and adopted it March 1, 1781. THAT was the document that prevented the "intrusive government".

 

But it turned out that the government desired by neoRepublicans today was INCAPABLE of functioning in the complexities of the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY, so they abandoned the current Republican plan, wrote the Constitution and adopted it September 17, 1787. The neoRepublican ideal of Government small enough that it "could be drowned in the bathtub" only lasted SIX YEARS.

 

In the Constitution they gave great power to the Central Government, but arranged to control that power by having 3 separate, EQUAL branches - Legislative to write the Law, Executive to carry out the Law and Judicial to resolves disputes in the Law. This Democrat espoused form of Government is working just fine after TWO HUNDRED THIRTY-TWO YEARS.

 

The reason the GOPerLords of today want so desperately want us to return to the Government that FAILED in 1786 is simple: The Government that replaced the failure is the ONLY force capable of protecting We the People from the predation of the Corporate Oligarchs who periodically destroy the economy to enrich themselves by impoverishing the 99%.

 

 

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