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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 61 of 141

As usual, more smokescreen blather from the right to cover up the obscene policies and appointees by the trump administration. And denial of the welfare program for the wealthy... by repubs. 

Interesting that JimC did not name the topic: “Our ignorance of authoritarianism

is dangerous”.

That seems like a more applicable topic as to what is happening in our Country and the World. 

And NH, Scout knows what he’s talking about!

Never Forget

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 62 of 141

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Scout is espousing a theory where I'm just checking to see if I'm understanding his theory correctly.  I guess you will just have to discuss the "Scout theory" with Scout since I can't determine if he is kidding or not!

 

The only people discussing this redistribution of wealth is liberals. They call it "what's yours is mine".


This whole "Liberals want to redistribute wealth" myth has been very helpful for the right but just has no factual basis. On the other hand, the idea of giving tax breaks to the rich and watching it trickle down has been debunked as an economic theory but continues to be espoused by conservatives regardless.  I would also point out that Trump was amazingly fast to offer welfare to corporate farmers to offset the impact of his disastrous tariff program but nothing to the farm employees or the local small businessmen who were hurt. 

 

In short, Republicans want you to subsidize the rich from the pockets of the middle class.  I call that forced redistribution of wealth. 


Talk with Scout and he will explain it to you and maybe you will have a better understanding why liberals want redistributing wealth.  According to Scout, it all takes place when Reagan was in office and lowered the income tax rates for all and Trump did a redo.

 

Your hero, Nancy Pelosi says the Trump tax cuts are crumbs and she will seek to cancel those crumbs out for you, me, and the rest of the liberals.

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 63 of 141

@jimc91 wrote:

 

I just finished watching Atlas Shrugged Part 3, the words you used in your above commentary were quite timely and I enjoyed reading it.

 

Hoo-boy!!!! That should get a reaction.

 

 

 


 

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 64 of 141

@rk9152 wrote:

The problem with discussing Socialism (besides those just looking for a fight) is that the definition is so vague. It can go from one extreme - Karl Marx's ultimate view of the worker's paradise to the thinking of some that it means public libraries.

 

Marx's thinking was noble but (as the USSR demonstrated) naive. The problem is that when you place more and more power over the necessities of life in the hands of the government, you place more and more of your independence there too.

 

On these boards the term "we the people" is used and some see the government as the representative of "we the people". Well, the Russians kicked the Tsar out and gave the farmland to the peasants who worked it. That lasted only a few years under Lenin. Then along came Stalin who decided that the land belonged to the people (represented by the government) and made the farmers the workers of the government, farming the land of "we the people". The results of that approach are obviously not what we would want.

 

For the most part I do not find Socialists to be evil people - just naive. There are those, of course, who hate the successful, want what belongs to them and see wealth redistribution as the vehicle. They are, to my mind, the vast minority. Most are the decent but naive. 

 

 


Good Job @rk9152!!

 

I just finished watching Atlas Shrugged Part 3, the words you used in your above commentary were quite timely and I enjoyed reading it.

 

Good Job!

 

 

VIMTSTL
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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 65 of 141

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Socialism is about Government control/ownership of the major industires in a society.

 

It has NOTHING to do with Government insuring everyone in the society gets a better life when the society as a whole produces more wealth to support the better life.

 

Giving our Citizens excellent health care and great schools and well maintained roads and bridges and safe streets and unbiased law enforcement and secure retirements is NOT "socialist" - Its why we started this Nation in the first place.


Yes, control of the economy. However, if you read Marx you would learn that there is a lot more. That Worker's Paradise involved a lot more than owning the factory.

 

Can you point to something in the founding documents that says our nation was formed to give government provided healthcare?

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 66 of 141

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

The problem with discussing Socialism (besides those just looking for a fight) is that the definition is so vague. It can go from one extreme - Karl Marx's ultimate view of the worker's paradise to the thinking of some that it means public libraries.

 

Marx's thinking was noble but (as the USSR demonstrated) naive. The problem is that when you place more and more power over the necessities of life in the hands of the government, you place more and more of your independence there too.

 

On these boards the term "we the people" is used and some see the government as the representative of "we the people". Well, the Russians kicked the Tsar out and gave the farmland to the peasants who worked it. That lasted only a few years under Lenin. Then along came Stalin who decided that the land belonged to the people (represented by the government) and made the farmers the workers of the government, farming the land of "we the people". The results of that approach are obviously not what we would want.

 

For the most part I do not find Socialists to be evil people - just naive. There are those, of course, who hate the successful, want what belongs to them and see wealth redistribution as the vehicle. They are, to my mind, the vast minority. Most are the decent but naive. 

 

 


I don't know how I would feel meeting a socialist. There are none in the circle of people  where I associate.  Must be more prevalent with conservatives and Republicans.  That is how the whole "Trickle Down" thing came about. 


Don't want to talk about it???

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 67 of 141

Socialism is about Government control/ownership of the major industires in a society.

 

It has NOTHING to do with Government insuring everyone in the society gets a better life when the society as a whole produces more wealth to support the better life.

 

Giving our Citizens excellent health care and great schools and well maintained roads and bridges and safe streets and unbiased law enforcement and secure retirements is NOT "socialist" - Its why we started this Nation in the first place.

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 68 of 141

@rk9152 wrote:

The problem with discussing Socialism (besides those just looking for a fight) is that the definition is so vague. It can go from one extreme - Karl Marx's ultimate view of the worker's paradise to the thinking of some that it means public libraries.

 

Marx's thinking was noble but (as the USSR demonstrated) naive. The problem is that when you place more and more power over the necessities of life in the hands of the government, you place more and more of your independence there too.

 

On these boards the term "we the people" is used and some see the government as the representative of "we the people". Well, the Russians kicked the Tsar out and gave the farmland to the peasants who worked it. That lasted only a few years under Lenin. Then along came Stalin who decided that the land belonged to the people (represented by the government) and made the farmers the workers of the government, farming the land of "we the people". The results of that approach are obviously not what we would want.

 

For the most part I do not find Socialists to be evil people - just naive. There are those, of course, who hate the successful, want what belongs to them and see wealth redistribution as the vehicle. They are, to my mind, the vast minority. Most are the decent but naive. 

 

 


I don't know how I would feel meeting a socialist. There are none in the circle of people  where I associate.  Must be more prevalent with conservatives and Republicans.  That is how the whole "Trickle Down" thing came about. 

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 69 of 141

The problem with discussing Socialism (besides those just looking for a fight) is that the definition is so vague. It can go from one extreme - Karl Marx's ultimate view of the worker's paradise to the thinking of some that it means public libraries.

 

Marx's thinking was noble but (as the USSR demonstrated) naive. The problem is that when you place more and more power over the necessities of life in the hands of the government, you place more and more of your independence there too.

 

On these boards the term "we the people" is used and some see the government as the representative of "we the people". Well, the Russians kicked the Tsar out and gave the farmland to the peasants who worked it. That lasted only a few years under Lenin. Then along came Stalin who decided that the land belonged to the people (represented by the government) and made the farmers the workers of the government, farming the land of "we the people". The results of that approach are obviously not what we would want.

 

For the most part I do not find Socialists to be evil people - just naive. There are those, of course, who hate the successful, want what belongs to them and see wealth redistribution as the vehicle. They are, to my mind, the vast minority. Most are the decent but naive. 

 

 

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 70 of 141

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

rk wrote IP:

 

Along the same line, "Back in the 1960's Republcians wondered how they could get richer faster than the Middle Class that was closing the income gap at a frenetic pace" seems to indicate that you are assuming there were no Republicans in the Middle Class. That is obviously not true. Instead of merely spewing your hatred for the more successful, try looking at the real world.

 

It's obvious there were Republicans in the middle class in the 1960's. But as your post demonstrates, they had no idea what their GOPerLords were doing to them and still don't. 

 

Also, making more money does NOT make one more "successful". In the case of the situation from 1980 to the present, all it shows is one was a better theif.


Were there no Dems among the successful?? Your suggest is quite offensive to Dems I would think.


More than there were Republicans - the GOPers just stole more from the workers to get their unearned paychecks.

 

On the Progressives side, there's Gravity, that credit card processing company that raised all its workers minimum pay to $70,000, paid for by the founder and CEO's admittedly bloated paycheck. GOPers and Limbaugh predicted the company would fail, but they're going like crazy and that minimum wage for their employees is no longer $70,000,  it's $103,000.

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