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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 21 of 141

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

The point of the topic was to discuss it not to post, "Conservatives think this and Conservatives think that".

The danger comes from not being aware of where "Socialism light" can lead.


oint. And I posted that it is thought of here as everywhere from Marx's theory in toto on one end to public libraries on the other.
The danger is adding little by little of 

What the hell does "Socialism ligh" mean?  I suspect you cannot define Socialism or socialism light (or heavy or wide or soft or hard.....). If you cannot define the term, how can you educate us of its dangers?  

I remember an old Robert Heinlien book where they sent people off to a wilderness with the warning "Beware the Stobor".  After that, every new danger the individuals and groups encountered were deemed to be THE STOBOR.  Looks like you are making the same kind of warning.  "Beware the msilaicos!!!!"


If you read Marx you will understand full blown Socialism as a step towards Communism. The basic difference being that under Socialism everybody has the same, under Communism "we the people" represented by the government owns everything. As to Socialism light, you'll have to ask those who think that public libraries define Socialism.

 

The danger is taking those small steps away from individual freedom towards "we the people" collectivism and getting to the point of dependency and unable to come back.

 

What that has to do with "msilaicos" is a mystery


Actually your posting is a mystery. What is Socialism rk?  What countries are actually Socialist?


Have you not been reading my posts?


I have been reading your posts and I can't figure out what you mean by socialism.  This is the dictionary.com definition of Socialism. Are you really afraid that anyone in America today is advocating "vesting ownership" away from the people who currently own businesses?  Seriously?  

 

  1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

 


Yes, that is a key element in the system as defined by Marx. Now, think of all the stuff you want the government to provide and/or control that is needed by the population. How is it paid for? The government must have more and more of the economy in order to pay for more and more services. Also, if the government is going to pay for various services, will they not necessarily place controls on the use of the services?

 

Now, how does that relate to the definition? The "community as a whole" is like "we the people" - but individual people do not run those things. Their "representatives" (the government) does. Now take that back to my pointing out the transition from Lenin to Stalin and how that effected the farmers.

 

The point to be considered here is that we probably will not go the Russian Revolution route. However, the "one step at a time" approach has a danger of taking too many steps. 

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 22 of 141

@williamb39198 wrote:

@rk9152

Yes I have. And only thing you seem to proclaim is us being leftist neo marxists socialists, and ignore our current plight of being in the midst of an era of authoritarianism. 

One more try: how are we socialists?

Thank you 

 

Never Forget


NeoMarxism has been clearly and thoroughly defined - it's history and it's current home in the Progressive Movement. Now some Dems are "coming out". If you buy into it, fine no need to be defensive just step up and support your belief system.

 

I defined Socialism quite clearly - I do not establish lists. Individuals know better than me where they stand. 

 

We are not in authoritarianism. The President has regularly been stopped by the Courts and he is unable to get needed action out of the Congress. So, sleep well - we are not in the midst of that era.

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Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 23 of 141

Ignorance of Socialism is not dangerous. We live in a country which combines free enterprise with socialism. Two prime examples of that are Medicare and Social Security. Nobody thinks of those socialist components as dangerous.

 

More importantly, when Trump Cult members talk about Socialism, they always cherry pick brutal, respressive regimes. But let's look at the top 10 Socialist countries in Europe.

 

Here are the countries that can be considered social democratic welfare states:

  1. Sweden
  2. Denmark
  3. Norway
  4. Iceland
  5. Netherlands
  6. Belgium
  7. Germany
  8. Finland
  9. Ireland
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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 24 of 141

@jimc91 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

Yes Jim  you are correct. the biggest danger for the Trump Followers and the so called Right is the fact that they have no idea  as to what constitute a socialist type of government. Perhaps if they bother to learn what is Socialism they would be able to understand how terribly   ignorant they are about this subject.


So by all means enlighten me...

 

"When the tragedies of socialist regimes—such as those in Venezuela, the USSR, China, Cuba,"

 

Are these not examples?  Please teach us.  

 

Did you read the article posted at the beginning of this thread?

 

Please feel free to point out where Walter Williams missed the mark in your opinion and WHY...

 

 

 

 


I guess the regimes in Venuzuela, Cuba, USSR etc would be perfect examples of socialism. I just have never heard of anyone in America suggesting we pattern our economic system after those countries so I am at a loss as to what the "danger" would be. Still looking like you are warning us to "Beware the Stobor" without telling us what a Stobor is. 

 

If I understand your argument. Our ignorance of socialism is very, very, dangerous and, obviously, everyone knows what socialism is (and this, are not in ignorance).

 

Yes, I can see that argument coming from the Right. 

 

 

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 25 of 141

@rker321 wrote:

Yes Jim  you are correct. the biggest danger for the Trump Followers and the so called Right is the fact that they have no idea  as to what constitute a socialist type of government. Perhaps if they bother to learn what is Socialism they would be able to understand how terribly   ignorant they are about this subject.


So by all means enlighten me...

 

"When the tragedies of socialist regimes—such as those in Venezuela, the USSR, China, Cuba,"

 

Are these not examples?  Please teach us.  

 

Did you read the article posted at the beginning of this thread?

 

Please feel free to point out where Walter Williams missed the mark in your opinion and WHY...

 

 

 

 

VIMTSTL
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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 26 of 141

Yes Jim  you are correct. the biggest danger for the Trump Followers and the so called Right is the fact that they have no idea  as to what constitute a socialist type of government. Perhaps if they bother to learn what is Socialism they would be able to understand how terribly   ignorant they are about this subject.

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 27 of 141

@rk9152, well I have to hand it to you... You have the patience of Job.

 

The original article by Walter Williams offered several example of Socialist Regimes that illustrate the success of such but the posters either did not read it or are just interested in fighting rather that discuss the topic.  I know you have tried this before with little to no success.  When I read this article I thought it did a good job of covering it so I thought I would post it.  Then I picked a couple of paragraphs the named countries and posted this:

 

When the tragedies of socialist regimes—such as those in Venezuela, the USSR, China, Cuba, and many others—are pointed out to America’s leftists, they hold up Sweden as their socialist role model. But they are absolutely wrong about Sweden.

 

Johan Norberg points this out in his documentary “Sweden: Lessons for America?” Americans might be surprised to learn that Sweden’s experiment with socialism was a relatively brief flirtation, lasting about 20 years and ending in disillusionment and reform.

Reason magazine reports:

 

Sweden began rolling back government in the early 1990s, recapturing the entrepreneurial spirit that made it a wealthy country to begin with. High taxation and a generous array of government benefits are still around. But now it’s also a nation of school vouchers, free trade, open immigration, light business regulation, and no minimum wage laws.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

And then you got nothing but questions asking you to name examples.

 

So what do ya think?

 

I think we have a group of seniors that do not understand basic communication 101.

 

It must be a bitter existence when a person gets up every morning with the goal for the day to be an argumentative person.

 

Good luck in your pursuit...  I personally don't think they are capable.

 

 

 

VIMTSTL
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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 28 of 141

@rk9152 wrote:

 


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

The point of the topic was to discuss it not to post, "Conservatives think this and Conservatives think that".

The danger comes from not being aware of where "Socialism light" can lead.


oint. And I posted that it is thought of here as everywhere from Marx's theory in toto on one end to public libraries on the other.
The danger is adding little by little of 

What the hell does "Socialism ligh" mean?  I suspect you cannot define Socialism or socialism light (or heavy or wide or soft or hard.....). If you cannot define the term, how can you educate us of its dangers?  

I remember an old Robert Heinlien book where they sent people off to a wilderness with the warning "Beware the Stobor".  After that, every new danger the individuals and groups encountered were deemed to be THE STOBOR.  Looks like you are making the same kind of warning.  "Beware the msilaicos!!!!"


If you read Marx you will understand full blown Socialism as a step towards Communism. The basic difference being that under Socialism everybody has the same, under Communism "we the people" represented by the government owns everything. As to Socialism light, you'll have to ask those who think that public libraries define Socialism.

 

The danger is taking those small steps away from individual freedom towards "we the people" collectivism and getting to the point of dependency and unable to come back.

 

What that has to do with "msilaicos" is a mystery


Actually your posting is a mystery. What is Socialism rk?  What countries are actually Socialist?


Have you not been reading my posts?


I have been reading your posts and I can't figure out what you mean by socialism.  This is the dictionary.com definition of Socialism. Are you really afraid that anyone in America today is advocating "vesting ownership" away from the people who currently own businesses?  Seriously?  

 

  1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

 

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 29 of 141

@rk9152

Yes I have. And only thing you seem to proclaim is us being leftist neo marxists socialists, and ignore our current plight of being in the midst of an era of authoritarianism. 

One more try: how are we socialists?

Thank you 

 

Never Forget

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Re: Our Ignorance of Socialism Is Dangerous

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Message 30 of 141

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Soosie wrote:
The point of the topic was to discuss it not to post, "Conservatives think this and Conservatives think that". @rk9152............There is no real discussion here. There are posters who say the same thing over and over, the ones who think their posts are so cute, the ones who say they are so educated, but can't make a good sentence, and those who try to continue to bait. Instead of being called "Politics and Current Events" perhaps some here can come up with a new title.

Since your post offers no discussion on the topic, are you referring to yourself in your posting?


Soosie - is that the sort of baiting you were referring to?

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