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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 21 of 66

@GailL1 wrote:

@NerdyMom wrote:

 


As long as there is an unneccessary middleman making a profit off of patient care, patients will not always get the care they need.  

 

The difference between a private payer (insurance) and the government is that the government is answerable to me.   A private insurance company is answerable to its shareholders.    


With private health care coverage, you can always walk with your feet and change plans - not so with a government plan. Lie. Single payer just means YOU won't ever be haggling with your provider or insurance company, both of whom you'll still select.

 

Whoops, I forgot, you are talking about an EMPLOYER provided plan - that must be another "middle man" thrown into your choice - kind of hard to walk with your feet to get the coverage that you might desire when it is tied to employment. Lie. Can't be "employer provided" because then you're dependant on your job for your insurance. Employers will still be taxed to provide their share of employee insurance, they just won't get to tell you what insurance you're going to have.

 

Seems to me, Americans just love to have others to make hard decisions for their personal lives including health care.Lie. Choice is EASY - Universal single payer or the disaster that Capitalism provies today that charges us twice as much for the 37th best results.

 

Which is easier to change for your perceived benefit - for whatever the reason-

 

1.  A huge government monopoly which has to take into consideration millions of people and the associated cost.  We are trapped with that one. HUGE Lie. No such organization is invisioned. Medicare operates with a 2% "overhead", hardly the required cash stream for a huge government monopoly.

 

2.  An employer plan for which they pick the choices and pay some or all of the premium cost.  Pretty much trapped there too since a change might involve a new job.That's why the employers will all pay A TAX and the tax which will go to subsidize everybodys free choice of insurance.

 

3.  A plan which you pick based on your needs, or need forecast, of which you can drop in a pretty minimal (contracted) time - especially now since denial based on health is a thing of the past.  There are also legal and individual negotiated procedures.Lie. Nobody gets to "drop", that's just a Republican way to encourage freeloading scumbags and USP doesn't accomodate them. You can CHANGE once a year, just like your Medicare sup-plimental.

 

People do give up some choice when any other entity is put between them and their direct choice.  Giving up this direct choice of what plan you might want or need means that you then must accept the will and rules of others - government or employer in this very personal and individualized benefit. Lie. The ONLY people "giving up" their choice are those who can afford whatever plan they like, about 1% of the general population. For the 99%, USP will drastically INCREASE their choices.

 

Hope your husband's recovery is successful, complete and timely. Truth (finally)

 

 


 

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 22 of 66

@rker321 wrote:

According to Gail, Americans are a lot more stupid than many think they are. And Gail would be correct.  Shoot, look who was elected President.  Do we really need anymore proof?   she thinks that if a National Health Care system was instituted in this country.  people would not understand or even know  the particulars of such a system.  Just like ANYTHING NEW, one must read the manual before understanding how something works. Does anyone know how much they'll pay in taxes in 2019?  Of course not, the manual hasn't even been written yet.  It was a silly point Gail made, especially with her condescending "ha ha".  She's usually above that crap, but apparently not this weekend. Maybe it's holiday stress....   I guess she must think that we all live in Alabama.

 

If a National Health Care system would be instituted in this country. we would all ALL  be part of that system and NOT just the ones that would care to embrace  it.  Right you are, rker.

 

And yes, private insurances would also offer the benefits that they would like to offer and people would probably buy into whatever they are offering and pay whatever they want to pay for those benefits. ....to supplement the benefits of the national plan.  But, ALL AMERICANS    would have a basic health care system that would be  sustained by all of us.  Of course.


Sorry, GAil you need to go to Alabama to sell your plan.  Oh, I wouldn't wish THAT on anyone.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 23 of 66

@NerdyMom wrote:

 


As long as there is an unneccessary middleman making a profit off of patient care, patients will not always get the care they need.  

 

The difference between a private payer (insurance) and the government is that the government is answerable to me.   A private insurance company is answerable to its shareholders.    


With private health care coverage, you can always walk with your feet and change plans - not so with a government plan.

 

Whoops, I forgot, you are talking about an EMPLOYER provided plan - that must be another "middle man" thrown into your choice - kind of hard to walk with your feet to get the coverage that you might desire when it is tied to employment.

 

Seems to me, Americans just love to have others to make hard decisions for their personal lives including health care.

 

Which is easier to change for your perceived benefit - for whatever the reason-

 

1.  A huge government monopoly which has to take into consideration millions of people and the associated cost.  We are trapped with that one.

 

2.  An employer plan for which they pick the choices and pay some or all of the premium cost.  Pretty much trapped there too since a change might involve a new job.

 

3.  A plan which you pick based on your needs, or need forecast, of which you can drop in a pretty minimal (contracted) time - especially now since denial based on health is a thing of the past.  There are also legal and individual negotiated procedures.

 

People do give up some choice when any other entity is put between them and their direct choice.  Giving up this direct choice of what plan you might want or need means that you then must accept the will and rules of others - government or employer in this very personal and individualized benefit.

 

Hope your husband's recovery is successful, complete and timely.

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 24 of 66

@NerdyMom wrote:

The difference between a private payer (insurance) and the government is that the government is answerable to me.   A private insurance company is answerable to its shareholders.    


Actually, governments are answerable to no one.  Politicians ostensibly are; most of us just misdirect attention from ourselves and worry about changing sentiment in the last year—voters have very short memories.  Changing politicians rarely changes government, because most are too afraid to make changes for the same reason:  voter sentiment is that change is scary, and bringing change will get you booted for someone less-scary.  You get a lot of platitudes.

 

When it comes to money, governments don't have to compete.  You see senators lobbying for big military contracts being assigned exclusively to big producers in their state?  See who votes on approving Keystone XL (whether or not it's actually a good idea)?  Politicians worry about bringing things to their donors.

 

Do you know what happens when it costs more to buy a thing the government supplies?

 

You either pay your taxes, or we send the IRS to your house.  With guns.

 

That's right:  we will arrest you, and we will shoot you if you fight back.

 

With Aetna being so damned expensive, you just drop them and move to Carefirst, and Aetna can't do anything but cry about it a lot.

 

You want proof of that?  Mylan.  EpiPens written into law:  every school must have EpiPens, by name.  Suddenly, the price goes up by like 30 times.  Mylan had to compete with other manufacturers's autoinjectors before, but now Mylan gets government money, which means they have a surrogate agent who will come to your door with guns and make you pay Mylan for EpiPens which expire every two years.

 

You can keep going with the government thing all the way down, but you just get socialism (the government owns all the means to production, top to bottom), and you can't sell that to America.  Your best option is to adjust the capitalist system to put pressure on the misbehaving entities, and make the path of most profit the one that suits our needs best—although the Republicans don't like that, and favor deregulation, arguing that the employees will sort it out free-market style with their employers (despite Republicans breaking down the unions) and that the consumers will sort it out free-market style with the businesses (despite Republicans removing all forms of consumer protection).

 

We need the businesses to be rats in a maze.  Take the wrong path and you get shocked a lot.  Go the right way and there's lots of cheese.  You can get to the cheese the other way, but you'll be shaking and covered in electrical burns—and the other rats will have eaten all the cheese by the time you hobble in.

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 25 of 66

According to Gail, Americans are a lot more stupid than many think they are. she thinks that if a National Health Care system was instituted in this country. people would not understand or even know  the particulars of such a system. I guess she must think that we all live in Alabama.

If a National Health Care system would be instituted in this country. we would all ALL  be part of that system and NOT just the ones that would care to embrace  it.

And yes, private insurances would also offer the benefits that they would like to offer and people would probably buy into whatever they are offering and pay whatever they want to pay for those benefits. But, ALL AMERICANS    would have a basic health care system that would be  sustained by all of us.  
Sorry, GAil you need to go to Alabama to sell your plan.

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 26 of 66

Single payer refers to who pays the actual provider of the service. In most rational countries, the Gov't pays all the allowed expenses direct to the provider, then collects from the individuals private insurance company. What you avoid is the medical professionals not getting paid, which is what happens when those uninsured 20 million Americans gets sick or injured and use the ER at $2200/visit instead of a family practicitioner for $200/visit.

 

But the BIGGEST cost savings is no other country is dumb enough to allow health care providers invent "Charge Masters" that calculate preposterous fees for each and every product and procedure. Instead, the Government determines what the true cost should be, adds a reasonable profit, and THAT is what the provider gets from the Government and what the Government recovers from the insurance company.How would a bunch of bureaucrats figure out what the "actual cost" is? Simple. We find out what the insurance companies have agreed to pay - this is why you'll see "AMT BILLED $5000" followed by "AMT ALLOWED $200" . The AMT BILLED is that diabolical "Charge Master" and the AMT ALLOWED is what it actually costs, including profit.

 

Will Doctors refuse to accept the smaller payment? No reason to think the Dr's will have their pay cut - what won't be included is the outlandish "overhead" the Corporation that hires the Doctor adds to the bill. Will the Corporations just shut down all the hospitals? Possibly, but that would constitute a National Emergency of Biblical proportions, and even Republicans would be forced to fix it. Now the GOPers fix will be to restore the outlandish overhead charge, which is why they can't be in the majority when the change occures.

 

Bottom line is that the ACTUAL cost, absent all the overcharge for uninsured people and insanely greedy Corporations is not $9200/person but more like $4500, less than most folks are paying for their coverage (including what employers may contribute) so its a win-win for all but the insanely greedy, and they've had the catbird seat for way too long.

 

The calculation you need to consider is 323.1million people times $4500= $1,453,950Million minus the $1.5Trillion already being provided =>$46Billion LESS

 

How did I come up with $4500? That what the rest of the World pays, and we're less well cared for than 37 other countries.

 

Capitalism makes the best STUFF and the worst PEOPLE of any system imaginable. Time to remove health care as a commodity and begin recognizing it as a RIGHT of all Americans, not just the Uberrich.

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 27 of 66

@john258 wrote:


 

Lets talk about Health Insurance. You get the cheapest rates when everyone is in the rating pool (100%).

 

[...]

 

Single payer would end the ER Care Care part of the system and return ER care to what it was set up for, and everyone who comes in to the ER would be covered. That would really reduce the taxes that fund that section of care now thus reducing the cost to the full system.

I did my calculations based on healthcare costs in the US, not on health insurance costs.  Insurers pay around $6,800/year for a single employee coverage on average; the per-capita healthcare cost is around $9,200 per 2016.

 

Your conclusion about the risk pool is incorrect because that $9,200 figure I used includes all healthcare administered, and doesn't include the costs of things like insurance overhead.  The risk pool for a single insurer covering 100% of all Americans, then, would produce $9,200/year per American, or $767/month.  We have 70 million Americans without private insurance or Medicare, 50 million of whom are covered by ACA or Medicaid; that's 20 million x $9,200, or $184 billion.

 

About $200 billion to implement a public healthcare option.  For single-payer, it's 323.1 million x $9,200 or $2,972.5 billion minus the current $1,500 billion of Medicare and Medicaid/VA/etc—about $1.5 trillion additional spending over current.

 

A PHO allows you to avoid guessing the correct price of healthcare services, which will fluctuate from provider to provider based on their efficiency at providing each service.  You let a whole bunch of insurers press them for low remittance rates, then pick your numbers from those of the greatest victors.  Otherwise providers, like all government contractors, will find a way to inflate the price and drive up the cost.

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 28 of 66

@Richva wrote:

I guess if Americans will be scared to change their providers, it is safe for them to see the benefits and negatives comparison of single payer. 


You are correct, but their is no single payer system now and until one is designed you can not compare it to anything. You can have thousands of approaches of single payer systems. Until it is narrowed down by the experts in the field there is nothing. That is why we have experts and if we are smart we will use them, and then react to what they tell us. You will not do this in a short period of time. In fact right now you will not do it at all with our current president and congress. The far right will never turn out anything to help people. You see that now in what they are doing to the current health care system.

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 29 of 66

I guess if Americans will be scared to change their providers, it is safe for them to see the benefits and negatives comparison of single payer. 

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Re: One big thing people don’t know about single payer ( Medicare-for-All)

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Message 30 of 66

@GailL1 wrote:

@john258

 

You might enjoy this 

H.R. 676 - Medicare For All  - AARP Community discussion by Section

http://community.aarp.org/t5/Politics-Current-Events/H-R-676-Medicare-for-All-introduced-02-2015/td-...


You take a bill from 2015 and post it in here as something we  should all read and then comment on. It was never passed and it might have been fine for 2015. Why would any person want to discuss something that is dead?

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