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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 1 of 45

@Richva wrote:

What he did do, is keep the pirates away and terrorists under control for 8 years.

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Of course Obama didn't do it all by himself.  It was due to a group of other nations with a national interest in keeping them under control.

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

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So Trump inherited problems that Obama didn't solve in 8 years and you expect Trump to do so in 50 days?

 

Regarding what Bush and Obama accomplished in a matter of days perhaps points that they also inherited ground work by the previous administrations that Trump didn't? 


I am not sure of your definition of the word "Solve" might be.  Completely eliminate Somoli piracy?  To do that, he would have to do a Dubya style regime change on Somalia.  What he did do, is keep the pirates away and terrorists under control for 8 years.  Then, fifty days into Trump's presidency, and the manure is back in the fan. 

 

Russians, N Koreans, Somalis, Mexican relations, Voter frauds, Nixon style wiretaps, and sinking health care replacements. It has been a busy couple of months. 

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 3 of 45

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@umbarch64 wrote:

 

IF it has been declassified that is one thing.  Assuming it has been declassified because it appeared on the internet or anywhere else is quite another.  You don't want to go there...not really.  Neither do I.

 

Well...since I don't want to get specific either, you will simply have to make reasonable assumptions about what I meant and leave it at that.  Next sentence.  Then you wasted your effort and everyone else's time.  Please don't do that again.



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As for being asked or told not to post something again, I don't take kindly for another poster telling me what I can or cannot post.

 

Didn't do that Tx.  Did say for you not to waste your effort and everyone else's time.  You say whatever you want whenever you want wherever you want.   

 

Now that we have that taken care of, you have no idea of my past experience with these matters, nor it's subject matter.

 

Now wait a minute.  You've claimed credentials in your post intended to make your opinion more credible and hence supercede others.  You are correct about this though, without those claims, I have no idea of your past experience.  IF I accept those claims, which I did, I do know a fair amount about 'these matters'.  And this discussion is now over. 

 

And when the originator of that material has put up an official web site outlining the work we did, I would think it was safe to repeat.  Again, I don't like someone without credentials telling me what I can or cannot post.

 

So before we get back to the topic, perhaps I should ask about your background to be instructing me what I can say? 

 


 

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 4 of 45

@umbarch64 wrote:

 

IF it has been declassified that is one thing.  Assuming it has been declassified because it appeared on the internet or anywhere else is quite another.  You don't want to go there...not really.  Neither do I.

 

Well...since I don't want to get specific either, you will simply have to make reasonable assumptions about what I meant and leave it at that.  Next sentence.  Then you wasted your effort and everyone else's time.  Please don't do that again.



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As for being asked or told not to post something again, I don't take kindly for another poster telling me what I can or cannot post.  Now that we have that taken care of, you have no idea of my past experience with these matters, nor it's subject matter.

 

And when the originator of that material has put up an official web site outlining the work we did, I would think it was safe to repeat.  Again, I don't like someone without credentials telling me what I can or cannot post.

 

So before we get back to the topic, perhaps I should ask about your background to be instructing me what I can say? 

 

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 5 of 45

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@umbarch64 wrote:


 

And no.  'Someone' has no problem with another's career.  Somethings are just better left unsaid.  Reasons include the possibility that they may still be classified. Even after all this time. 

 

Tx...I do assure you, I know all that you have mentioned.  I will presume you intend those things you say for someone elses consumption, not mine.

 



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I agree that somethings are better unsaid because of the possibility they may still be classified.  And of course there are many things today that has been declassified and is available on the internet.   I have read articles about much of what we did back during the Cold War days when it was highly classified.   The unit I was in even has a web site about activities.  Even at that I wouldn't mention even specifics in a social media group like this or in any discussions. 

 

IF it has been declassified that is one thing.  Assuming it has been declassified because it appeared on the internet or anywhere else is quite another.  You don't want to go there...not really.  Neither do I.

 

As far as missile technology and other countries use, I doubt that many of us here are aware of what is going on behind the scenes, but I doubt that either Russia or China wanted or wants North Korea to have much technology.  No doubt the North has a good spy system to obtain this from their partners. 

 

All reasonable.  Both expressed doubts and the invitations to draw reasonable conclusions from them.  Absolute truth?  Not so much.  Probable though.  Still good observations.

 

But not sure of what you are further getting at about things unsaid, referring to the first paragraph above.  So I'll ignore it..  And it was intended for your consumption. 

 

Well...since I don't want to get specific either, you will simply have to make reasonable assumptions about what I meant and leave it at that.  Next sentence.  Then you wasted your effort and everyone else's time.  Please don't do that again. 

 

As far as my service, I did what I set out to do when I graduated from high school and am enjoying the benefits in retirement. 

 

Good for you...I never doubted that was the case.  I am sincerely pleased you are enjoying your retirement. 

 

As a p.s., Vietnam wasn't a war either, but a war is a war, is a war when it's being conducted as one.  I'm sure those who served in the Korean War wouldn't appreciate someone calling it just a conflict.

 

I know that and you know that.  That's not what the politicians called it then and still do.  It wasn't just Korea either, was it?  Lies then and lies now.  AND I 'know' with certainty those who served don't appreciate that misnomer.  See...we do agree on more than you think we do.  Not that it matters much.  I just don't like misconceptions floating around out there.


 

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 6 of 45

@Richva wrote:



No, I am saying these things happened over 8 years with Obama and 50 days with Trump.

 


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So Trump inherited problems that Obama didn't solve in 8 years and you expect Trump to do so in 50 days?

 

Regarding what Bush and Obama accomplished in a matter of days perhaps points that they also inherited ground work by the previous administrations that Trump didn't? 

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 7 of 45

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


It is both confusing and appalling that donald supporters would try and defend Trump in any of this. Some seem to go to great lengths in defending Trump at all costs, they seem to accept anything that he does or doesn't do.


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And are you not ignoring what you have selected as your tagline by attempting to say that this didn't happen also during the Obama administration?  The premise has been that all of this started with the new administration.  If during eight years in office Obama didn't address the matter, but this administration should have stopped it with just two months in office?

 

Not necessarily supporting Trump, but supporting the truth of the matter.



@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


It is both confusing and appalling that donald supporters would try and defend Trump in any of this. Some seem to go to great lengths in defending Trump at all costs, they seem to accept anything that he does or doesn't do.


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And are you not ignoring what you have selected as your tagline by attempting to say that this didn't happen also during the Obama administration?  The premise has been that all of this started with the new administration.  If during eight years in office Obama didn't address the matter, but this administration should have stopped it with just two months in office?

 

Not necessarily supporting Trump, but supporting the truth of the matter.


I said nothing about it not happening before and didn't "attempt" to say that, so stop trying to change my words. ("gamesmanship"?)

 

It's escalated.  Yes you are defending Trump, and I have not heard the first criticism from you either.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 8 of 45

By the time my kids were 8 years old, they had found hundreds of ways to test my wife and I. They would watch carefully as the other tried something to see if it worked and then pull something similar if it seemed to work.  

 

We took them to a daycare which seemed to be the exact place.  Within a week I got a call about how disruptive my kids were.  I stopped in unannounced and found absolute chaos.  Turned out they had not enough staff.  Their staff was only selected from the religion of the church which owned and housed the daycare so they had a very limited pool of candidates.  None of the new "church" staff had any training or experience. 

 

My kids were out of there by the end of the week and the daycare closed within a year.  I think of this every time I read about Trump's management style. 

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 9 of 45

@ChasKy53 wrote:


It is both confusing and appalling that donald supporters would try and defend Trump in any of this. Some seem to go to great lengths in defending Trump at all costs, they seem to accept anything that he does or doesn't do.


--

And are you not ignoring what you have selected as your tagline by attempting to say that this didn't happen also during the Obama administration?  The premise has been that all of this started with the new administration.  If during eight years in office Obama didn't address the matter, but this administration should have stopped it with just two months in office?

 

Not necessarily supporting Trump, but supporting the truth of the matter.

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Re: Obama must be out of office

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Message 10 of 45

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:



And yet, Trump managed to have Russians buzzing, violating treaties, N Koreans shooting missles...........all in his first two months.


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You saying that this just started and wasn't going on mostly the entire time Obama was in office?  Just a Trump thing?  Or is it that you game playing by ignoring that?

 


No, I am saying these things happened over 8 years with Obama and 50 days with Trump. Some of this is just other nations testing a new leader.  China has created an international incident in the first 100 days of every new president back to Bush Senior. That shoe has not yet dropped but expect it in the next rew weeks. 

 

It is the volume of incidents and the lack of ABILITY to react that scares me.  Trump keeps saying "I don't think we need to have......" for any groundwork he has not finished.  There is a LOT of groundwork he has not finished. 

 

I use Obama and Dubya as yardsticks. Each had all their non-confirmed appointed positions filled at this point. They had vetted their appointments which required confirmation so they knew what the challenges would be in the Senate.  There is no one at the Russia desk in the state department right now. If Trump wants to set up a meeting with Putin, he has to make the call himself.  Dubya and Obama each had legislative agendas planned and the texts reviewed. Obama had the Stimulus Bill passed.  

 

Trump says "Nobody knew how complicated health care is". Trump is Mr. Nobody. 

 

I will stop when Pence is president. 

 

 

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