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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 11 of 36

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

Maybe a Socialist Style Pension , Paid Sick Days , Paid Vacation Days ,Lifetime Healthcare etc etc etc  would be a good start for ALL Hard Working Americans ? What do you think or is that just for the privileged Socialists ?


Two thoughts:

 - a person is properly paid based on the value he or she adds to the goods or services offered to the consumer. The cost to the employer includes the items you listed and they then reduce the hourly wage since they are part of the costs.

 

- What is a privileged Socialist?


See herein lies part of the problem - are entire Economic System can be reduced to only Two Thoughts - depending on your frame of reference - they could be

 

Good - Bad ..............Right - Wrong .............Socialist - Capitalist .......Republican - Democrat

 

Would that it was that simple

 

Most Americans believe that a rising tide should lift all boats—that as the economy expands, everybody should reap the rewards. And for two-and-a-half decades beginning in the late 1940s, this was how our economy worked. Over this period, the pay (wages and benefits) of typical workers rose in tandem with productivity (how much workers produce per hour). In other words, as the economy became more efficient and expanded, everyday Americans benefitted correspondingly through better pay. But in the 1970s, this started to change.

 

The gap between productivity and a typical worker’s compensation has increased dramatically since 1973Productivity growth and hourly compensation growth, 1948–2017

 

 

Pay gap.png

 

pay gap 1.png

 

pay gap 2.png

 

pay gap 3.png

 

pay gap 4.png

 

pay gap 5.png

 

 

Since 1973, pay and productivity have diverged.

 

From 1973 to 2017, net productivity rose 77.0 percent, while the hourly pay of typical workers essentially stagnated—increasing only 12.4 percent over 44 years (after adjusting for inflation).

 

This means that although Americans are working more productively than ever, the fruits of their labors have primarily accrued to those at the top and to corporate profits, especially in recent years.

 

Why this happened—and how we can fix it

 

Rising productivity provides the potential for substantial growth in the pay for the vast majority.

 

However, this potential has been squandered in recent decades.

 

The income, wages, and wealth generated over the last four decades have failed to “trickle down” to the vast majority largely because policy choices made on behalf of those with the most income, wealth, and power have exacerbated inequality. In essence, rising inequality has prevented potential pay growth from translating into actual pay growth for most workers. The result has been wage stagnation.

 

For future productivity gains to lead to robust wage growth and widely shared prosperity, we need to institute policies that reconnect pay and productivity and restore worker power, such as those in EPI’s First Day Fairness Agenda and the Agenda to Raise America’s Pay. Without such policies, efforts to spur economic growth or increase productivity (the largest factor driving growth) will fail to lift typical workers’ wages.

 

Capitalism has failed the American Worker

 

Source - https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

 

As I said, salary is based on the contribution of the worker to the value of the product or service being provided to the consumer. As automation took on more and more of the increased productivity, it was only natural for salaries to not increase.

 

Capitalism has failed the American Worker

 

Can you describe your alternative? 

 

"First DAY Fairness" seems to be based on paying based on the needs of the worker. That brings back the issue of two workers doing the same work but being paid different. Do you support that?

 

 

 


 


So Artificial Intelligence & Automation was responsible for the beginning of the Productivity Gap in the 1970's & 80's

 

No - Pure & Simple Capitalistic Greed was responsible back then & even more so today

 

1. Here’s an example. A Deloitte study of automation in the U.K. found that 800,000 low-skilled jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

 

2. The Marlin Steel factory in Baltimore is a classic case of automation driving innovation. When Chinese manufacturers undercut Marlin Steel’s prices for its core wire basket product line, the company was forced to pivot. Marlin Steel purchased robotic wire-forming machines and began focusing on making high-quality precision products for companies such as Boeing and General Motors. It also hired more people and increased wages, attracting workers whose diverse backgrounds complemented the computer-aided production processes around which the factory now revolves.

 

Drew Greenblatt, CEO and owner of Marlin Steel, credits automation with not only providing a lifeline to the company but to its employees as well. “All of a sudden they’re super productive and it’s because we’ve given them the tools — it’s robotics and automation,” he said. “Thank God for robots. If it wasn’t for robots, these guys would be unemployed.”

 

3. Panera Bread announced in April that it would create 10,000 delivery driver and in-café jobs in response to the popularity of its delivery service. High customer demand for ordering soups and sandwiches through the chain’s AI-powered digital platform led the company to decide to expand the service to 40 percent of its stores. The company said that its drivers would enjoy “daytime hours and competitive wages” and would further bolster the customer experience.

Panera Bread’s decision to hire its own drivers rather than outsource deliveries to a third-party service could hint at another automation-driven trend. If all companies have access to the same cost-saving, service-expediting technologies, competitive advantage may come from differentiated customer experience — the sort of unique customer experience that comes from human creativity.

 

Source - https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/07/automation-replaced-800000-workers-then-created-3-5-million-new-j...

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 12 of 36

Of course right around the Reagan years our Unions were demonized and stabbed in the back. What was the result ?

Employer Pensions disappeared , Employer Healthcare disappeared and Jobs disappeared through outsourcing overseas. Hey but our CEOs pay went from 25 times the average worker to 400 times by the year 2000.

Now that's Republican backed Capitalism !!

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 13 of 36

@rk9152 wrote:

And still, in the little I have seen from CPAC I have seen no "exploding heads" to OMG over. Can anyone fill in the details to rationalize this topic.


Just as domestic abuse and incest is very carefully hidden within a family - CPAC hides the nasty and perverted details from coming to be publicly known...

44>dolt45
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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 14 of 36

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

I usually respond by copying the text but it was just too long to do so.

 

A salary is not based on your contribution to the organization. It is based on how much or little the organization can get away with paying you. The relationship between employee and employer is very tilted to the benefit of the employer.

 

Capitalism, as practiced in the United States, has not helped the American worker.  It has been a huge boon to the aristocracy as the top 1% has as much wealth as the bottom 80%. This situation also occurs in countries the aristocracy would label as Socialist (they are not) but it is mitigated by laws there.

 

The aristocracy here desperately want laws to make trade with China fair but have no interest in such laws to make their relationship with workers fair.  


Certainly in order to stay competitive, a company will attempt to reduce it's costs to the lowest possible. If they didn't they would go out of business. 

 

Now, those laws to make it fair - how does that work? Is a worker payed based on his needs rather than the job he does?


I can appreciate that a company must reduce costs.  Both to stay in business and to maximize the profits for the owners. If those costs happen to be a living wage for their employees, that is simply the way the American free enterprise system works today. Certainly, payment on need is an unworkable concept.  It always has been.  It is most interesting that the "good jobs" that aristocracy continues to talk about were all unionized industries at one point in time.  Collective bargaining was an excellent way of balancing the current imbalance we have today.  I don't have an answer  as to "the solution".  I can only say that the current system is not working for the American people and it is refreshing to see the new batch of lawmakers examining possible solutions. 

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 15 of 36

And still, in the little I have seen from CPAC I have seen no "exploding heads" to OMG over. Can anyone fill in the details to rationalize this topic.

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 16 of 36

@Richva wrote:

I usually respond by copying the text but it was just too long to do so.

 

A salary is not based on your contribution to the organization. It is based on how much or little the organization can get away with paying you. The relationship between employee and employer is very tilted to the benefit of the employer.

 

Capitalism, as practiced in the United States, has not helped the American worker.  It has been a huge boon to the aristocracy as the top 1% has as much wealth as the bottom 80%. This situation also occurs in countries the aristocracy would label as Socialist (they are not) but it is mitigated by laws there.

 

The aristocracy here desperately want laws to make trade with China fair but have no interest in such laws to make their relationship with workers fair.  


Certainly in order to stay competitive, a company will attempt to reduce it's costs to the lowest possible. If they didn't they would go out of business. 

 

Now, those laws to make it fair - how does that work? Is a worker payed based on his needs rather than the job he does?

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 17 of 36

I usually respond by copying the text but it was just too long to do so.

 

A salary is not based on your contribution to the organization. It is based on how much or little the organization can get away with paying you. The relationship between employee and employer is very tilted to the benefit of the employer.

 

Capitalism, as practiced in the United States, has not helped the American worker.  It has been a huge boon to the aristocracy as the top 1% has as much wealth as the bottom 80%. This situation also occurs in countries the aristocracy would label as Socialist (they are not) but it is mitigated by laws there.

 

The aristocracy here desperately want laws to make trade with China fair but have no interest in such laws to make their relationship with workers fair.  

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 18 of 36

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

Maybe a Socialist Style Pension , Paid Sick Days , Paid Vacation Days ,Lifetime Healthcare etc etc etc  would be a good start for ALL Hard Working Americans ? What do you think or is that just for the privileged Socialists ?


Two thoughts:

 - a person is properly paid based on the value he or she adds to the goods or services offered to the consumer. The cost to the employer includes the items you listed and they then reduce the hourly wage since they are part of the costs.

 

- What is a privileged Socialist?


See herein lies part of the problem - are entire Economic System can be reduced to only Two Thoughts - depending on your frame of reference - they could be

 

Good - Bad ..............Right - Wrong .............Socialist - Capitalist .......Republican - Democrat

 

Would that it was that simple

 

Most Americans believe that a rising tide should lift all boats—that as the economy expands, everybody should reap the rewards. And for two-and-a-half decades beginning in the late 1940s, this was how our economy worked. Over this period, the pay (wages and benefits) of typical workers rose in tandem with productivity (how much workers produce per hour). In other words, as the economy became more efficient and expanded, everyday Americans benefitted correspondingly through better pay. But in the 1970s, this started to change.

 

The gap between productivity and a typical worker’s compensation has increased dramatically since 1973Productivity growth and hourly compensation growth, 1948–2017

 

 

Pay gap.png

 

pay gap 1.png

 

pay gap 2.png

 

pay gap 3.png

 

pay gap 4.png

 

pay gap 5.png

 

 

Since 1973, pay and productivity have diverged.

 

From 1973 to 2017, net productivity rose 77.0 percent, while the hourly pay of typical workers essentially stagnated—increasing only 12.4 percent over 44 years (after adjusting for inflation).

 

This means that although Americans are working more productively than ever, the fruits of their labors have primarily accrued to those at the top and to corporate profits, especially in recent years.

 

Why this happened—and how we can fix it

 

Rising productivity provides the potential for substantial growth in the pay for the vast majority.

 

However, this potential has been squandered in recent decades.

 

The income, wages, and wealth generated over the last four decades have failed to “trickle down” to the vast majority largely because policy choices made on behalf of those with the most income, wealth, and power have exacerbated inequality. In essence, rising inequality has prevented potential pay growth from translating into actual pay growth for most workers. The result has been wage stagnation.

 

For future productivity gains to lead to robust wage growth and widely shared prosperity, we need to institute policies that reconnect pay and productivity and restore worker power, such as those in EPI’s First Day Fairness Agenda and the Agenda to Raise America’s Pay. Without such policies, efforts to spur economic growth or increase productivity (the largest factor driving growth) will fail to lift typical workers’ wages.

 

Capitalism has failed the American Worker

 

Source - https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

 

As I said, salary is based on the contribution of the worker to the value of the product or service being provided to the consumer. As automation took on more and more of the increased productivity, it was only natural for salaries to not increase.

 

Capitalism has failed the American Worker

 

Can you describe your alternative? 

 

"First DAY Fairness" seems to be based on paying based on the needs of the worker. That brings back the issue of two workers doing the same work but being paid different. Do you support that?

 

 

 


 

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 19 of 36

As to CPAC - considering the Dems rapidly coming out of the closet in the Marxist direction, it is only reasonable that a Conservative organization would comment on that event.

 

 

Comment:

 

 

Actually socialism was born out of the French Revolution and the ideology of that time, as was the American Revolution and the US Constitution.

 

Marxism was one of many ideologies that came along some time later in an attempt to address the same issues.

 

http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Paine1795.pdf

 

AGRARIAN JUSTICE

Thomas Paine

1775

 

 

MEANS FOR CARRYING THE PROPOSED PLAN INTO EXECUTION, AND
TO RENDER IT AT THE SAME TIME CONDUCIVE TO THE PUBLIC
INTEREST.


I. Each canton shall elect in its primary assemblies, three persons,
as commissioners for that canton, who shall take cognizance, and
keep a register of all matters happening in that canton, conformable
to the charter that shall be established by law for carrying this plan
into execution.


II. The law shall fix the manner in which the property of
deceased persons shall be ascertained.


III. When the amount of the property of any deceased person
shall be ascertained, the principal heir to that property, or the eldest
of the co-heirs, if of lawful age, or if under age the person authorized
by the will of the deceased to represent him or them, shall give bond
to the commissioners of the canton to pay the said tenth part thereof
in four equal quarterly payments, within the space of one year or
sooner, at the choice of the payers. One half of the whole property
shall remain as a security until the bond be paid off.


IV. The bond shall be registered in the office of the commissioners of the canton, and the original bonds shall be deposited in the national bank at Paris. The bank shall publish every quarter of a year the amount of the bonds in its possession, and also the bonds that shall have been paid off, or what parts thereof, since the last quarterly publication.


V. The national bank shall issue bank notes upon the security of
the bonds in its possession. The notes so issued shall be applied to
pay the pensions of aged persons, and the compensations to persons
arriving at twenty-one year of age. It is both reasonable and generous
to suppose, that persons not under immediate necessity, will suspend
the right of drawing on the fund, until it acquire, as it will do, a
greater degree of ability. In this case, it is proposed, that an honorary
register be kept, in each canton, of the names of the persons thus
suspending that right, at least during the present war.


VI. As the inheritors of property must always take up their bonds
in four quarterly payments, or sooner if they choose, there will
always be numéraire [cash] arriving at the bank after the expiration
22 of the first quarter, to exchange for the bank notes that shall be
brought in.


VII. The bank notes being thus put in circulation, upon the best
of all possible security, that of actual property, to more than four
times the amount of the bonds upon which the notes are issued, and
with numéraire continually arriving at the bank to exchange or pay
them off whenever they shall be presented for that purpose, they will
acquire a permanent value in all parts of the Republic. They can
therefore be received in payment of taxes, or emprunts equal to
numéraire, because the government can always receive numéraire
for them at the bank.


VIII. It will be necessary that the payments of the ten per cent be
made in numéraire for the first year from the establishment of the
plan. But after the expiration of the first year, the inheritors of
property may pay ten per cent either in bank notes issued upon the
fund, or in numéraire. If the payments be in numéraire, it will lie as
a deposit at the bank, to be exchanged for a quantity of notes equal to
that amount; and if in notes issued upon the fund, it will cause a
demand upon the fund, equal thereto; and thus the operation of the
plan will create means to carry itself into execution.


THOMAS PAINE.

 

Paine has a claim to the title The Father of the American Revolution, which rests on his pamphlets, especially CommonSense, which crystallized sentiment for independence in 1776.
 
Born: Thomas Pain; February 9, 1737; Thetford, ...
 
Died: June 8, 1809 (aged 72); New York City, ...
 
Then as now some people argued against enlightenment and sought to return to or stay in the good old days of the aristocracy.

 

 

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Re: OMG The Socialists R Exploding Heads at CPAC

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Message 20 of 36

aoc socialist.jpg

 

I noticed a clip in the video - AOC being interviewed on PBS. That PBS interview was used by Conservative Review TV to discredit Ocasio-Cortez.

 

There was a video that appeared on Facebook not long after Ocasio-Cortez won the Democratic Primary. The video appeared to be an interview with AOC conducted by Allie Stuckey, host of Conservative Review TV. (Some of you might remember the video).


Stucky on one side of the screen, asks Ocasio-Cortez questions, and Ocasio-Cortez, on the other side of the screen, struggles to respond or gives embarrassing wrong answers. She looks foolish.


But the interview isn't real. The video was a cut and paste job.


Conservative Review TV had taken answers from a PBS interview with AOC and paired them with questions asked by Stuckey that were designed to humiliate the Ocasio-Cortez.


The effort to discredit Ocasio Cortez was extremely effective. In less than 24 hours, the interview was viewed more than a million times.


Facebook did not remove the video when it was revealed to be fake, because Stuckey claimed -- after the video had gone viral -- that it was satirical.


The comments at the bottom of the video clearly showed people who watched it believed it was a real interview. They did not see it as satirical.


Here's the Stuckey - Ocasio-Cortez Interview:

 

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