No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 21 of 276

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:


Actually Tex, contrary to what you apparently would like to believe, the Supreme Court's decision was based on special circumstances which occurred in an earlier ruling and NOT a declaration allowing discrimination against gay people for religious beliefs.

 


Is there a reason why you keep posting to me and on this topic? 

Yup .... Your posts supported the baker's discrimination against gay people and attempt to justify that discrimination by using unsubstantiated so called "religious beliefs".

 

But you can keep this up until the cows come home, pardner, but your opinion isn't the reason.  Pardner, apparently you are attempting to put your own opinion on this. 

No "opinion" Tex, as you falsely accuse. Rather, I have clearly posted facts and backed them up with references. I have also posed questions to you which you are unable to answer.

 

What you are saying is that the baker, or anyone, is compelled to use their artistic skills because to not do so would be discriminatory under the law. 

Wrong again Tex.

What I am clearly saying is that the baker must provide the same service to gay people that he provides to all others.

 

Further, according to your opinion, a Christian bookstore could be ordered to sell a book on devil worship, or even on other religions.

I NEVER stated that Tex! You made it up!

Go back to that post and re-read it to see EXACTLY what I stated regarding your Christian bookstore example!

 

The entire basis of your opinion is that no others has a right to their constitutional freedoms since they don't agree with yours.

Wrong again Tex ..... You entire comment is a gross false accusation!

 

  Your arguments are close to those in Communist nations where religion is controlled by the government.

Wrong again Tex .... "my arguments" are based upon our CONSTITUTION'S implied SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE as well as FEDERAL LAW which prohibits discrimination against gay people!

 

  Even to the point of bringing in false accusations such as executing gays, among others.

Wrong again Tex ..... The belief among some so called "Christian" religions is, IN FACT, that it is their religious duty to execute gay people.

I also provided you a reference to that FACT!!!

 

 

 


 

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 22 of 276

@Richva wrote:

Everyone has the right to practice their religion as they see fit AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS.  Why do you have such a hard problem with that. If you go into business, you have an obligation to serve all customers equally. 


The baker has the same rights.  Why do YOU have a hard problem with that?  He doesn't give up those rights either when he goes into business.

 

Both of you have a good day as well.  Your opinions doesn't supersede those of mine either.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 23 of 276

@jimc91 

Nor does it give you authority to expect others to follow your beliefs or perhaps God’s laws, versus Federal law, and which may infringe on others rights and freedoms. 

The door of rights and freedoms does in some respects swing both ways. But Federal law supersedes religious law, which is optional to join or follow. There is no Federal law that mandates a citizen must adhere to or follow a particular religious belief. Federal law is mandatory, for the good of all citizens, which provides rights and protections for the good of all. 

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 24 of 276

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:


Actually Tex, contrary to what you apparently would like to believe, the Supreme Court's decision was based on special circumstances which occurred in an earlier ruling and NOT a declaration allowing discrimination against gay people for religious beliefs.

 


Is there a reason why you keep posting to me and on this topic?  But you can keep this up until the cows come home, pardner, but your opinion isn't the reason.  Pardner, apparently you are attempting to put your own opinion on this. 

 

What you are saying is that the baker, or anyone, is compelled to use their artistic skills because to not do so would be discriminatory under the law.  Further, according to your opinion, a Christian bookstore could be ordered to sell a book on devil worship, or even on other religions.

 

The entire basis of your opinion is that no others has a right to their constitutional freedoms since they don't agree with yours.  Your arguments are close to those in Communist nations where religion is controlled by the government.  Even to the point of bringing in false accusations such as executing gays, among others. 

 

 

 


Well, the SCOTUS has not ruled in favor of a right to refuse service on religious grounds. They sent back two cases but neither was returned base on any kind of religious right to discriminate in service.  So, there is that.

 

The next question is where YOU think the line is.  

  • Oh, its just a cake
  • Oh, you can't go to our school
  • Oh, you can't live in our neighborhood. 

Everyone has the right to practice their religion as they see fit AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS.  Why do you have such a hard problem with that. If you go into business, you have an obligation to serve all customers equally.  "No shirt, no service" applies to all customers equally.  "No Gays, no blacks, no Jews" does not.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 25 of 276

@myexper , Your rights and freedoms do not give you the authority or right to infringe on the freedoms and rights of others.  

 

SCOTUS has determined that...

 

 

 

VIMTSTL
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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 26 of 276

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:


I seem to recall the pre WWII Germans saying the same thing about the Jews.  It did not start out with concentration camps but I am curious as to where the line is for you?  Which services can be denied and which can not?

 

 


Another attempt to confuse the issue?  Who is persecuting who?  I don't recall anyone being sent to concentration camps because of their sexual orientation; religious beliefs, etc.  Is anyone being sent to concentration camps because they were denied service or denying service to anyone?

 

Is there a reason you keep coming up with these nonsensical posts?


You pose numerous questions to other posters while failing to answer any questions posed to you Tex.

So once again Tex ..... Do laws against homicide prohibit the religious beliefs  of those so called Christians who believe that it is their Christian duty to execute gay people?


We have had too many examples why the statement "that could never happen HERE" is a faulty assumption.  If Tex can't tell me where the line is for refusing service to members of the public then there is no line. That is my point. 

  • "He just refused to bake a cake"
  • "She just refused to issue a marriage license"
  • "We just want to have separate facilities. They will be equal"

Just asking where the line is and when is a good time to get off that slippery slope. Tex can't or won't tell me.  

 

 


I can't speak for Tex but for me, any time custom work is requested, you have the RIGHT to turn down the work regardless of circumstances. 


Not when "custom work" is offered to others but refused to a Federally protected minority!

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 27 of 276

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:


You pose numerous questions to other posters while failing to answer any questions posed to you Tex.

So once again Tex ..... Do laws against homicide prohibit the religious beliefs  of those so called Christians who believe that it is their Christian duty to execute gay people?


Get real and forget all those nonsensical excuses.  They don't deserve an answer.  No one is executing anyone. 


Another evasion followed by another straw man argument Tex.

So once AGAIN Tex ..... As some so called Christian religions believe that it is their religious duty to execute gay people, are laws against homicide preventing them from exercising their religious beliefs?

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 28 of 276

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:



@myexper wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:



@myexper wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

I think I understand now.  Only left wing hatred matters!

Your erroneous conclusion clearly indicates that you do not understand.

The "hatred" toward gay people has only been exhibited by the "right" in this thread. The "left" defended gay people from the right's unjustified attacks on gay people.


The biggest hate group is the LEFT. They hate the right, they hate Trump, they hate freedom (to make cakes that don't disagree with your religion, morals, or way of life), they hate tax breaks, they hate work, they hate small government.

 

Suggestion: move to Venezuela where they already have your way of life.


Nothing but rabid, unsubstantiated accusations ....


Most of the time, truth is painful.


Made up rabid accusations are NOT "truth" as you'd like to believe NOTHAPPENING ..... They're erroneous personal opinions.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 29 of 276

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:


Obviusly (sic) the SCOTUS does not believe such a right exists based on the rulings but  do you think  they have a Constitutional right to refuse to treat a gay person at the emergency ward?  If not, where is the line


As has been posted, there is really no need to respond to a post, especially as it has no relation to the discussion. 


Wrong again Tex ..... That post has tremendous "relation to the discussion".

As such Tex, Please answer the question ..... based on your "religious beliefs" of course.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Message 30 of 276

@Richva wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:


The same one that says you have freedom of religion but that does not give you the right to burn MY church down.


Nor the right to dictate what mine believes.  The state is evolving much like Communist China who attempts to control religion, dictating approved doctrine and ministers in churches. 


No matter what your religious beliefs consist of Tex, they do not override our Constitution ....... nor are your "religious beliefs" allowed to take away "Constitutional rights" of your fellow Americans!


Obviusly the SCOTUS does not believe such a right exists based on the rulings but  do you think  they have a Constitutional right to refuse to treat a gay person at the emergency ward?  If not, where is the line? 


I don't believe ANY person has a Constitutional right to refuse gay people ANY service provided to others ......including, and especially, an emergency service.

 

As such, there should be "no line".

 

From reading the reviews of several legal professors, I also don't believe that the Supreme Court's decision for the Colorado baker automatically allows a person to discriminate against gay people based on that person's religious beliefs.

This will become a case by case basis. As such, gay people who are discriminated against should not be discouraged from taking legal action based on the Supreme Court ruling for the baker.

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