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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

 

But the baker denied the gay couple the very same services he offers to others .... specially designed cakes. As such Tex, the baker's actions towards the gay couple were discriminatory.


Well pardner, apparently the Supreme Court didn't think that the baker declining to share his talents was discriminatory.  You can't force a person to use their artistic talents to do something you don't believe in.  He had no problem selling them any stock cake in the bakery. 

 

 


 

Sorry, but the Supreme Court did not rule on the broader issue regarding anti-discrimination laws, free exercise of religion, and freedom of speech.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@jimc91 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

The biggest hate group is the LEFT. They hate the right, they hate Trump, they hate freedom (to make cakes that don't disagree with your religion, morals, or way of life), they hate tax breaks, they hate work, they hate small government.

 

Suggestion: move to Venezuela where they already have your way of life.


Your theory is that the LEFT hates freedom?  You do realize the whole point of this thread is to deny a couple in Oregon the freedom to buy a cake like any other couple, right?


@Richva , The couple does have the freedom to buy a cake without interference from the government or anyone else.  

 

The baker has the freedom to practice his religion or worship without interference from the government or anyone else.

 

I don't see the problem.  

 

Are you suggesting the couple has the authority to demand the baker sell a product he does not offer or make?

 

I want a 2 cylinder diesel hybrid 72 volt city commuter.  Do I have the authority to demand Ford build me one?  I think not!

 

Your freedom does not give you the authority to demand that I sell something I simply do not offer or manufacture.  In what world would that make any sense at all?

 

 

 

 

 


But the baker DOES offer and manufacture wedding cakes.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:


It is exactly the same thing. Hate is hateBecause the left says no does not change the situation. If a Nazi came in and asked for a cake bearing the picture of Hitler along with swastikas and the baker refused his request, that is OK with the left but gays have special rules that FORCE the baker to comply with their request even though the baker doesn't approve of them?  Get real.

 

Your logic is off kilter.  He shouldn't be FORCED to comply with either request. He must be FORCED to sell off the shelf items to ANYONE!


 

Wedding cakes are a common staple in bakeries... unlike "Nazi cakes". Also, sexual orientation is a protected class... unlike Nazis.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@Richva wrote:


Wait, Jesus law does not apply to you?  Ok. I always figured I would hear that at some point. 

 

First, the SCOTUS refused to rule that the religious rights of the baker trumped the right of the two gays to be served like any other citizen.

 

Second, the religious rights of the baker were in no way infringed. If he does not believe baking cakes fits his religious ideals, he can stop baking cakes. He only need apply that to all Americans, not just two gay individuals.


I didn't say that "Jesus law doesn't apply to us".  I said that Jesus lived under the law of Moses as a Jew.  Therefore he was subject to that law.  That law wasn't fulfilled until after his death and resurrection.  That is when the Church was established.  Perhaps if you studied the Bible more you'd be aware?  We are subject to what is written by the Apostles.

 

Time to shut this out.

 

 

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:


That was the argument for Masterpiece Cake V Colorado Civil Rights and the legal ruling


That ruling was voided by the Supreme Court.

 

Jesus was raised and lived under the law of Moses which doesn't apply to us.  He lived as Jewish under that law, therefore didn't speak about it.  Christianity didn't come into existence until after His death.  His Apostles continued Jesus work in spreading Christianity.  More obfuscation on your part.

 

You still haven't answered why the rights of the two gays negates those of the baker.

 

 


Wait, Jesus law does not apply to you?  Ok. I always figured I would hear that at some point. 

 

First, the SCOTUS refused to rule that the religious rights of the baker trumped the right of the two gays to be served like any other citizen.

 

Second, the religious rights of the baker were in no way infringed. If he does not believe baking cakes fits his religious ideals, he can stop baking cakes. He only need apply that to all Americans, not just two gay individuals. 

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@Richva wrote:


That was the argument for Masterpiece Cake V Colorado Civil Rights and the legal ruling


That ruling was voided by the Supreme Court.

 

Jesus was raised and lived under the law of Moses which doesn't apply to us.  He lived as Jewish under that law, therefore didn't speak about it.  Christianity didn't come into existence until after His death.  His Apostles continued Jesus work in spreading Christianity.  More obfuscation on your part.

 

You still haven't answered why the rights of the two gays negates those of the baker.

 

 

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:


Of course, in this case the view being expressed is that every American has rights but those rights stop at the point where they interfere with another American's rights.   Since the SCOTUS seems to agree, I am not sure what your argument is here. 

  • I don't have to make you a cake
  • I don't have to let you into my lunchenette
  • I don't have to let you into my schools

Again to repeat it over and over, there was no refusal to make a cake.  They had the choice of any cake in the house.  But not to go out of his way to design the cake which the gay couple wanted.

 

Would you go into a Honda dealership and demand that the dealer sell you a Ford?  They would sell you any on the lot.  Same way here, they had their choice of any cake design in stock.

 

The fact that some here refuses to accept that explanation indicates that none wants to engage in civil discussion but to keep this topic going and going like the Energizer bunny.

 

Additionally, here there is the insistence that only the gay couple has rights, but the baker doesn't.  When did he lose his rights to the free exercise of his religion as defined in the First Amendment?  None has answered that question.


That was the argument for Masterpiece Cake V Colorado Civil Rights and the legal ruling has always been that you cannot compel someone to create a work of art. However, the cakes under discussion had been replicated multiple times so they were not a created work of art anymore. This was simply the case of another bigoted member of the Taliban (there are no references to gays by Jesus so they can't be Christians) trying to push their views under the guise of religion. 

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@Richva wrote:


Of course, in this case the view being expressed is that every American has rights but those rights stop at the point where they interfere with another American's rights.   Since the SCOTUS seems to agree, I am not sure what your argument is here. 

  • I don't have to make you a cake
  • I don't have to let you into my lunchenette
  • I don't have to let you into my schools

Again to repeat it over and over, there was no refusal to make a cake.  They had the choice of any cake in the house.  But not to go out of his way to design the cake which the gay couple wanted.

 

Would you go into a Honda dealership and demand that the dealer sell you a Ford?  They would sell you any on the lot.  Same way here, they had their choice of any cake design in stock.

 

The fact that some here refuses to accept that explanation indicates that none wants to engage in civil discussion but to keep this topic going and going like the Energizer bunny.

 

Additionally, here there is the insistence that only the gay couple has rights, but the baker doesn't.  When did he lose his rights to the free exercise of his religion as defined in the First Amendment?  None has answered that question.

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Re: No Cake for You, LGTBQ

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


A very reasonable and respectful response a opposed to the offensive one  you were responding to.


Consider that liberals are more prone to being offensive to those that doesn't share their views. 


Of course, in this case the view being expressed is that every American has rights but those rights stop at the point where they interfere with another American's rights.   Since the SCOTUS seems to agree, I am not sure what your argument is here. 

  • I don't have to make you a cake
  • I don't have to let you into my lunchenette
  • I don't have to let you into my schools
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