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Honored Social Butterfly

Nice argument for Single Payer.

comments?

 

https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10156201486462908/

 

Bernie is not in this video.

So it begins.
Trusted Social Butterfly

The ACA began a process.  Proponents of the ACA knew it was seriously flawed from the beginning.  "Do It Now......you won't get another chance" seemed to be the political reality and since Democrats controlled, pushed the ACA through, flaws and all.  

 

I did not think the ACA should have been given the priority it was given.  Infrastructure was more important.  Single Payer was the right system to go to the mattresses for...not the flawed 'hurry-up' mish-mash we got. That was a judgement call.....and I was NOT in a position to make it.

 

The Democratic power structure did not see things that way.  They attempted to use compromise as a tool to hammer out some sort of reasonable transitional system acceptable to Republicans.  Fat chance. Needless to say, the new kids on the block, the RRR, seized on this and blocked any attempt to fix what was wrong. You ALL saw it IF you bothered to watch.  YOU can't deny it. 

 

Due to 'that reality' we now have 'this reality'. The Republicans, of course, find it politically expedient to 'lay it at THEIR door'.  THEY being the Democrats.  IT WASN"T.  The RRR and their unwillingness to behave rationally created that mind-set in the Democratic contingent.  So...we got what we got.  The RRR is to blame for it.

 

At THAT time, fixing our neglected 'Infrastrure' was far more important to the Nation. The appalling wreckage left by the previous Republican administrations was so extensive it would literally take at least 10 years to fix by my estimate.  Virtually every sector of the Economy would be involved.  That would generate an enormous business and hence job stimulus.  That kind of stimulus was, and still is, badly needed. 'The donald' has yet to recognize that reality and do anything substantial about it.  Instead he AND the expanded RRR contingent continue to victimize the American People with their abuse of political power that lines the pockets of their sponsors and masters.

 

I thought it was not possible to become more disgusted with a political ideology than I was back then. I was wrong about that....that crew managed to do it.   

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

"Since Obamacare was theoretically designed to insure the uninsured and has been in business for a few years, how could we have 20 MILLION uninsured??"

 

There were 47 million uninsured before Obamacare became the law in 2010. Of those who are still uninsured, here's part of the data.

 

  • Many young people elected to pay the tax penalty
  • Many poor people who live in one of the 19 states who refused to expand Medicaid
  • Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Obamacare
  • About 3 million Americans make too much money to qualify for subsidies
  • Don't have the other numbers

Is Obamacare great? No, if the flaws in the program are corrected, more will sign up. But adding 27 million is very good progress. 

 

In addition to the numbers, pre-existing conditions are no longer a barrier to getting insurance. And one great feature of Obamacare, all important preventive care is now FREE to patients.

Honored Social Butterfly

There are some indisputable facts one cannot ignore, not even Trump Lovers. Health care in America costs on average, twice as much as anywhere else in the world.

 

Drug prices in America are generally twice or three times more than the rest of the world. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@MIseker wrote:

comments?

 

https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10156201486462908/

 

Bernie is not in this video.


The Canadian is 100% correct. No Republican has EVER produced actual statistical evidence showing people coming to America for health care UNLESS it is some incredibly complicated surgery THAT SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PATIENT HAS AGREED TO PAY FOR!

 

His argument AGAINST "free market" health care is a slam dunk. Republicans, who claim to have business savvy (like Lemontop???), cannot produce a reasonable explanation of how a for-profit company would EVER insure sick or old people WITHOUT the Government requiring ALL the healthy young people to be included in the same insurance pool. Why? Because without the healthy young people the company could not charge enough to earn a profit. QED.

 

Nice to have someone with actual facts rebut the Republican lies about "all those people coming the the USA for health care" when the reality is the exact opposite - thousands of Americans going abroad for their surgery and millions getting their drugs from foreign sources.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

The Canadian is 100% correct. No Republican has EVER produced actual statistical evidence showing people coming to America for health care UNLESS it is some incredibly complicated surgery THAT SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PATIENT HAS AGREED TO PAY FOR! 


 

Canada Wait times (in weeks) by procedure in 2016:

Plastic surgery: 25.9
Gynecology: 18.8
Ophthalmology: 28.5
Otolaryngology: 22.7
General surgery: 12.1
Neurosurgery: 46.9
Orthopedic surgery: 38.0
Cardiovascular: 8.4
Urology: 16.2
Internal Medicine: 12.9
Radiation Oncology: 4.1
Medical Oncology: 3.7

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/3084366/q-a-how-long-are-medical-wait-times-in-canada-by-province-and-proc...

 

QED

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Honored Social Butterfly

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.

[

In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, "Leaving Canada for Medical Care," the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. "It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death," the report says. "Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life."

Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically "reasonable."

 

The public health care system sends some Canadians abroad for treatment partly because of a lack of available local resources, the report says.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for...

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Honored Social Butterfly

Not..from one of your links:WATCH ABOVE: Canadians are waiting longer than ever for surgeries in Canada. A new study by the Fraser Institute shows the average Canadian waits 20 weeks from the time they first see a doctor to surgery. But as Mike LeCouteur reports some question the validity of the report.
So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@MIseker wrote:
Not..from one of your links:WATCH ABOVE: Canadians are waiting longer than ever for surgeries in Canada. A new study by the Fraser Institute shows the average Canadian waits 20 weeks from the time they first see a doctor to surgery. But as Mike LeCouteur reports some question the validity of the report.

I have some Canadian friends who vacation in the states who love the Canadian system EXCEPT when they need immediate care or even a quick MRI.  Fortunately (for them), they enjoy both with the Canada health system and here when time counts.  BTW, I haven't checked with "my chart" but they say specialist wait times are horrendous in Canada.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
Not..from one of your links:WATCH ABOVE: Canadians are waiting longer than ever for surgeries in Canada. A new study by the Fraser Institute shows the average Canadian waits 20 weeks from the time they first see a doctor to surgery. But as Mike LeCouteur reports some question the validity of the report.

I have some Canadian friends who vacation in the states who love the Canadian system EXCEPT when they need immediate care or even a quick MRI.  Fortunately (for them), they enjoy both with the Canada health system and here when time counts.  BTW, I haven't checked with "my chart" but they say specialist wait times are horrendous in Canada.


One other thing to remember about those 52000 canadians. there are 20 MILLION americans uninsured. Bankruptcy no longer cancels your medical bills. people are chosing between their family being homeless or dying. No matter the dirt on single payer, its worse here. And, you uber wealthy will just find a doc that work outside the system so you can buy the healthcare your station in life entitles you too.
 

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
Not..from one of your links:WATCH ABOVE: Canadians are waiting longer than ever for surgeries in Canada. A new study by the Fraser Institute shows the average Canadian waits 20 weeks from the time they first see a doctor to surgery. But as Mike LeCouteur reports some question the validity of the report.

I have some Canadian friends who vacation in the states who love the Canadian system EXCEPT when they need immediate care or even a quick MRI.  Fortunately (for them), they enjoy both with the Canada health system and here when time counts.  BTW, I haven't checked with "my chart" but they say specialist wait times are horrendous in Canada.


One other thing to remember about those 52000 canadians. there are 20 MILLION americans uninsured. Bankruptcy no longer cancels your medical bills. people are chosing between their family being homeless or dying. No matter the dirt on single payer, its worse here. And, you uber wealthy will just find a doc that work outside the system so you can buy the healthcare your station in life entitles you too.
 


Since Obamacare was theoretically designed to insure the uninsured and has been in business for a few years, how could we have 20 MILLION uninsured??

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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
Not..from one of your links:WATCH ABOVE: Canadians are waiting longer than ever for surgeries in Canada. A new study by the Fraser Institute shows the average Canadian waits 20 weeks from the time they first see a doctor to surgery. But as Mike LeCouteur reports some question the validity of the report.

I have some Canadian friends who vacation in the states who love the Canadian system EXCEPT when they need immediate care or even a quick MRI.  Fortunately (for them), they enjoy both with the Canada health system and here when time counts.  BTW, I haven't checked with "my chart" but they say specialist wait times are horrendous in Canada.


One other thing to remember about those 52000 canadians. there are 20 MILLION americans uninsured. Bankruptcy no longer cancels your medical bills. people are chosing between their family being homeless or dying. No matter the dirt on single payer, its worse here. And, you uber wealthy will just find a doc that work outside the system so you can buy the healthcare your station in life entitles you too.
 


Since Obamacare was theoretically designed to insure the uninsured and has been in business for a few years, how could we have 20 MILLION uninsured??


Obamacare isnt the topic. do you have the facts that show singlepayer IS NOT a more effective way to deliver health care to all citizens?

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
Not..from one of your links:WATCH ABOVE: Canadians are waiting longer than ever for surgeries in Canada. A new study by the Fraser Institute shows the average Canadian waits 20 weeks from the time they first see a doctor to surgery. But as Mike LeCouteur reports some question the validity of the report.

I have some Canadian friends who vacation in the states who love the Canadian system EXCEPT when they need immediate care or even a quick MRI.  Fortunately (for them), they enjoy both with the Canada health system and here when time counts.  BTW, I haven't checked with "my chart" but they say specialist wait times are horrendous in Canada.


One other thing to remember about those 52000 canadians. there are 20 MILLION americans uninsured. Bankruptcy no longer cancels your medical bills. people are chosing between their family being homeless or dying. No matter the dirt on single payer, its worse here. And, you uber wealthy will just find a doc that work outside the system so you can buy the healthcare your station in life entitles you too.
 


Since Obamacare was theoretically designed to insure the uninsured and has been in business for a few years, how could we have 20 MILLION uninsured??


It insured more than 20 million citizens, with that number STILL remaining, its clear single payer is the only way to go. Obamacare is ok, but in reality its an insurance industry bailout. eliminate the middleman and go single payer.

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly

mlseker--Well said!  A million Kudos to you, my friend!!

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Honored Social Butterfly

I should add, the Canadian in the hospital with my wife..got he bill paid by Canada
So it begins.
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Honored Social Butterfly

When my husband was living, he had a friend who was a Canadian cardio-surgeon who had a number of offices.  More than once, he and I spoke about our two countries health care systems.  He told me that the average wait time for non-life threatening surgeries in Canada was approximately 6 months  (this was approximately 2006-2007).  He said, Yes, some people came to the US for care.  However, he also told me that he had uninsured patients who came to him because his bill was less than what they would have to pay in the states.

There is never going to be a perfect plan for health care insurance, but having citizens with no coverage is unacceptable.  Those who are so consumed by greed that they think only of their own wallets, should welcome health care for all as uninsured tend to go to emergency rooms, which charge roughly 5x as much as an office call, and whose bills often go unpaid.  Surprise!!!  Those unpaid bills??? The rest of us pay for them in the end--so no one saves anything--in fact, they pay more.

No brainer.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Honored Social Butterfly

The GOPerLords HATE any and all forms of Universal coverage-Single payer health care for ONE simple reason: THEY CANNOT BUY THEIR WAY TO THE FRONT OF THE LINE.

 

So to conceal their rapacity and sense of total entitlement, they tell their lofo base "It's a question of creeping Socialism! A Slippery Slope that will take away your FREEDOM of choice!"

 

Never mind that not being able to afford health care is the real way have your "freedom of choice" taken away - their lofo's never bother to think about what the Republican Ministry of Propaganda tells them, they just BELIEVE.

 

I've got grandkids going to college in Europe and they have no doctor's bills despite the fact they DO get sick and injured. I've taken youth groups on week-long excursions in Canada, and never had a problem getting FREE medical assistance when we had an illness or injury (not often, but NEVER is a good "statistic" to work from)

 

GOPerLords oppose making health care available to all Americans simply because they truly HATE those who are not rich - listen to them talk about "The 47%". Rank and file GOPers fall in line and parrot their leaders, and the only way to solve America's health care problems is to end the Republican majorities in Congress and elect a Democratic POTUS.

Honored Social Butterfly

Nothing new here. Canadians definitely have some issues with their health care system, primarily, the wait times. A report I saw in a CBC article stated that in 2014, 52,000 Canadians came to U.S. for some kind of care. Half of them were from Ontario.
   But the main thrust of the video was about no market-based healthcare system can exist without intervention. I would certainly agree with that.

   I would think that we have so many disagreements about what is the best health care system because none of them work as well as we would like. Low cost, negligible wait times, easy access to docs regardless of one lives, easy access to hospitals, etc.  

   Those of us who lived around larger towns (with lots of physicians, hospitals, er's), had good insurance, had an 'ideal system'. I had that living in greater Chicago area, working for corporations. I was living the 'health care dream'. That's mostly gone now and never existed in rural America. 


"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
Honored Social Butterfly


@retiredtraveler wrote:

Nothing new here. Canadians definitely have some issues with their health care system, primarily, the wait times. A report I saw in a CBC article stated that in 2014, 52,000 Canadians came to U.S. for some kind of care. Half of them were from Ontario.
   But the main thrust of the video was about no market-based healthcare system can exist without intervention. I would certainly agree with that.

   I would think that we have so many disagreements about what is the best health care system because none of them work as well as we would like. Low cost, negligible wait times, easy access to docs regardless of one lives, easy access to hospitals, etc.  

   Those of us who lived around larger towns (with lots of physicians, hospitals, er's), had good insurance, had an 'ideal system'. I had that living in greater Chicago area, working for corporations. I was living the 'health care dream'. That's mostly gone now and never existed in rural America. 


like the guy said, in border areas it happens. my wife was in the hospital with a canuck once..she had driven about 80 miles to get an elective surgury without waiting.

So it begins.
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